ASEAN seeks US support for peace efforts in Ukraine

[ArcticFox]

Just now, ArcticFox said:

Absolutely Jingthing!  I'm with you 100%.
Declare a No Fly Zone immediately and take the Russians out of the skies as well as on the ground.  That will allow Ukraine's brave Freedom Fighters to show the Russian a thing or two.  And once the brave AFU and Azov fighters have the upper hand with US and NATO superior air cover from the Air, Sea, and Land, then the combined forces of Europe and NATO need to follow those brave men and women right over the Russian border and right to the outskirts of Moscow.  The Russian people will rise up when the see the true face of Freedom and Democracy has landed on its mainland and all that is needed is for Russian citizens to overthrow their corrupt tyrants who murder Ukrainian civilians in the streets. 
Let's show Russian the true might of the United State's superior military equipment and outstanding US and NATO military troops as well as to send a clear and bold message to China that Taiwan is a free democracy and will be a part of a new ASEAN NATO of freedom loving and peaceful countries.  ASEAN needs to get on the right side of history!
We need more US leaders with real guts like Biden, Graham, Pelosi, and even the courageous Doctor Jill Biden who is now risking it all to fly to Ukraine to show the American people The Right Stuff that their leaders are made of.  And bipartisan support for Congressman Adam Kinzinger bill to immediately deploy troops when Russia final crosses our 'red lines' which they have already done on multiple occasions.

That's what is needed!!!  An all out offensive by our United States, her allies, and the NATO countries as well as all countries bordering Russia on all of Russia's borders.  Declare a No Fly Zone for all Russian planes and immediately attack Russian aggression in one massive, global D-Day exercise to end "Russian Aggression" forever, as well as to usher in a new age of Freedom and Democracy in a rules-based international order.  American needs to move now and destroy the Russian hordes and their regime "Over There" so that peace and freedom reigns on all Western shores and soil.  Stop ignoring the chemical attacks by Russia on Ukraine forces.  If we don't, next up will be a tactile nuke hitting Kiev. 
And our youth in the West need to sign up for America's Freedom Forces.  Truthfully they need to bring back The Draft like they had when I was 18.  All youth should do their military and civic duties for their countries, and we need massive Armies to show the Russian and Chinese totalitarians that the United States will not stand for tyranny in any form.
 

God Bless America!!!  Let Freedom Ring Worldwide!!!  Let's put an end to Tyranny!

Slava Ukraine!!! 

[Jingthing]

Biden seeks Asean to be less neutral on the war.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/08/president-biden-must-speak-truth-southeast-asias-powerful-dc/

 

President Biden must speak truth to Southeast Asia’s powerful in D.C.

 

Russia’s war in Ukraine and growing tension between the United States and China reinforce the same trend: the return of global geopolitical competition among great powers. As in the last such period — the Cold War — this creates a risk that the architects of U.S. foreign policy will sacrifice the pursuit of democracy and human rights for the sake of good relations with repressive but strategically positioned regimes. Case in point: the summit meeting that begins Thursday in Washington between President Biden and nine high-level representatives from the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

[ArcticFox]

The G7 issues empty words.

"The US and other G7 countries vowed to defend Ukraine’s “sovereignty and territorial integrity” on Sunday’s 77th anniversary of Germany’s World War II defeat.”

The G7 empty words are that it will send old, outdated, and otherwise useless weapons to Ukraine.

These cowardly Western leaders need to establish a No Fly Zone as well to to commit superior US and NATO forces to wipe Russian Aggression off the map.

I think the G7 leadership are total cowards.  They hide behind brave Ukrainian troops as they issue platitudes. 
"We'll send you old, outdated weapons and then do the best you can - but we will not risk our own lives, or the lives of our own Western citizens.  You're on your own and we urge you to fight to the last Ukrainian.  All of you Ukrainians need to commit to die for the rest of us Westerners who refuse to fight and die for you."

Cowards!  The West needs to show some backbone and support their empty rhetoric. 

Establish a No Fly Zone now and show the world that the West is willing to fight side-by-side with Ukrainian hero citizens for Freedom and Democracy - not to hide behind Ukrainian military men and the skirts of their women.  Just pathetic. 

That's cowardly and it shows total weakness on the part of the West. 

Cowards.  But there you have it.  That's the US and NATO and the West for you.  All talk and no action!. 
Cowardly wimps who allow others to do the fighting and dying.  I bet these Western cowards are making a ton of money on the graves of each Ukrainian who dies fighting Russian Aggression. 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, ArcticFox said:

Absolutely Jingthing!  I'm with you 100%.
Declare a No Fly Zone immediately and take the Russians out of the skies as well as on the ground.  That will allow Ukraine's brave Freedom Fighters to show the Russian a thing or two.  And once the brave AFU and Azov fighters have the upper hand with US and NATO superior air cover from the Air, Sea, and Land, then the combined forces of Europe and NATO need to follow those brave men and women right over the Russian border and right to the outskirts of Moscow.  The Russian people will rise up when the see the true face of Freedom and Democracy has landed on its mainland and all that is needed is for Russian citizens to overthrow their corrupt tyrants who murder Ukrainian civilians in the streets. 
Let's show Russian the true might of the United State's superior military equipment and outstanding US and NATO military troops as well as to send a clear and bold message to China that Taiwan is a free democracy and will be a part of a new ASEAN NATO of freedom loving and peaceful countries.  ASEAN needs to get on the right side of history!
We need more US leaders with real guts like Biden, Graham, Pelosi, and even the courageous Doctor Jill Biden who is now risking it all to fly to Ukraine to show the American people The Right Stuff that their leaders are made of.  And bipartisan support for Congressman Adam Kinzinger bill to immediately deploy troops when Russia final crosses our 'red lines' which they have already done on multiple occasions.

That's what is needed!!!  An all out offensive by our United States, her allies, and the NATO countries as well as all countries bordering Russia on all of Russia's borders.  Declare a No Fly Zone for all Russian planes and immediately attack Russian aggression in one massive, global D-Day exercise to end "Russian Aggression" forever, as well as to usher in a new age of Freedom and Democracy in a rules-based international order.  American needs to move now and destroy the Russian hordes and their regime "Over There" so that peace and freedom reigns on all Western shores and soil.  Stop ignoring the chemical attacks by Russia on Ukraine forces.  If we don't, next up will be a tactile nuke hitting Kiev. 
And our youth in the West need to sign up for America's Freedom Forces.  Truthfully they need to bring back The Draft like they had when I was 18.  All youth should do their military and civic duties for their countries, and we need massive Armies to show the Russian and Chinese totalitarians that the United States will not stand for tyranny in any form.
 

God Bless America!!!  Let Freedom Ring Worldwide!!!  Let's put an end to Tyranny!

I'm taking that as satire. Full marks 

[relax33]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:13 PM, Jingthing said:

His life has been in danger and it continues to be so. His highly effective online international outreach (he can't travel now) has been critical in securing arms and raising funds for the defense for the very survival of his nation. Even though Ukraine could still lose, it's hard to imagine a leader who could have done as much as Zelinsky as quickly as he did it which is at least giving his country a fighting chance. I find your personal attack of him hollow and truly disgusting. 

To each his own , that's te beauty of diversity  ...
Do remember that everyone 's views of things will  differ as they have more information on the subject n am able to look at thing from various perspectives ..

It's always nice to be "wrong n misguided "when it serves a purpose to educate n improve but one might differ if one sees video footage of the luxurious settings he is living in n read about the huge sums of $ he is getting from  the US..
You then learn to flip the question n look from the point of view of "what if" ...
There are tons of information on the internet that lay out the reasons for the Russia invasion n how it could have been stopped months ago n could still be stopped now, including assurances made during the Clinton years when the USSR was dismantled that they would not expand Nato Eastwards by even one inch  ..

When a country is fighting a war it almost has no chance of winning n when winning is hollow (except for the politicians who are making billions from it thru corruption n collusion) ,there is a need to look at things from the grassroots point of view ..

When you do that, you find that the average man in the street just wants peace n a means to make a living n to realize their dreams n aspirations if possible .
They couldn't really be bothered with who the leader is or which party is in charge as the billions made by these politicians will never filter down to them.
(FYI ,.. Ukraine ranks no 140 out of 180 countries on the corruption index in 2021 so we are not expected to believe that its leaders are saints ..)

Ukraine is already poor as it is n this stupid war has destroyed everything n will easily require 30 years to rebuild even if they have the money !!
Who's going to pay for it ??
The debt that results will easily take the country 30 - 50 years to repay ..

If you disregard the money n only focus on the human element .
This war easily sets back the aspiration of the people by at least 3 generations n Time is something more valuable than money as you cannot buy back Time with it ..
Imagine the kids that have to be resettled and the educated females who end up being exploited n forced into vice due to the war;  n the folks who worked hard n borrowed from the bank to buy property that is now destroyed n worthless with them still owing the bank for it ..

If you look at all this, isn't it imperative for any anyone (regardless if he's the leader) who cares for the country n it's people to seek peace asap to limit the damage to property n lives that are occurring every second .
Obviously, there will be more onus on the guy who's leading the country to act appropriately.

Is it too much to ask that this person at least focus on seeking peace rather than wasting time doing podcast to berate European leaders  n that he spends more time on the field to rally n care for the soldiers n civilians  instead of hiding in the comforts of his luxurious bunker .. ??
This is not even a demand but just basic common sense Public Relations  moves that any savvy leader will take ..  He should just flee to Poland if he is fearful for his little life ..

You see civilians who got out of the steel factory in Mariupol saying that they were living in darkness for 6 months  but were then hurriedly led away without divulging more details ..
Who in the right mind will want to stay in such a place for even 2 weeks which begs the question " Why are so many of them there for so long, is it that people are using them as human shields ??
There should be a UN enquiry on this subject right ??, why is it not done ??

[relax33]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:13 PM, Jingthing said:

Zelinsky as quickly as he did it which is at least giving his country a fighting chance. I find your personal attack of him hollow and truly disgusting. 

As the saying goes " Actions speaks louder than words".
Politicians expect to be criticized as criticism is a tool for improvement n is part of their bread n butter .
The successful ones are those who rise up to the challenge to prove their doubters wrong through action..

[relax33]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:51 PM, placeholder said:

This invasion didn't happen at random, there's a history to it and the US is at the center. Go read Putin's "Empire of Lies" speech and he explains. 

FYI for a better perspective ..
This is what some Americans are saying about the war ... 

Old men start wars, young men fight them. There are no real winners. Everyone looses something in war.

It was the Socialist Lenin who said that the way to destroy America was through inflation and over taxation. America's domestic socialists are doing that for him.

 

It’s not clear to me why we are in this war but it looks like we are doing it to cover Biden and his corrupted dealings with Ukraine. We are sending billions of dollars overseas when more and more Americans don’t have money to buy food. Now we are even talking about nukes without thinking of the terrible implications of it. I’m surprised a lot of republicans are ok with this. Trump wanted to start thinking about America and focusing on our independence and future. He wanted to end all the corruption in our government and clean up the deep state. He wanted to keep doing business with the world but negotiating from a position of power. He wanted us out of every foreign war. Why aren’t we pursuing his legacy instead of supporting this travesty that may lead us to a path of destruction?

 

Why are Poland, France, England, Germany, and I'm not going to continue this list of all the other countries, "in this war" too? Are they all covering for Biden?? Is the whole western world so enamored with Biden that they are ready to take in millions of refugees and give parts of their smaller budgets and military stocks all to cover for Biden??

 

By many accounts these shipments of weapons like the Javelin anti-tank missile (jointly manufactured by Raytheon and Lockheed Martin) are getting blown up as soon as they arrive in Ukraine. This doesn’t bother Raytheon at all. The more weapons blown up by Russia in Ukraine, the more new orders come from the Pentagon. What we do see is that Russians are capturing modern US and NATO weapons by the ton and even using them to kill more Ukrainians.     What irony. Also, what kinds of opportunities will be provided to terrorists, with thousands of tons of deadly high-tech weapons floating around Europe? Washington has admitted that it has no way of tracking the weapons it is sending to Ukraine and no way to keep them out of the hands of the bad guys."-Bloomberg

 

Has anyone wondered why Biden keeps sending weapons and money to keep the war going instead of diplomats to broker a peace deal? Who's the war monger here?

 

I think the chances of the war in Ukraine expanding are inversely proportional to how the Democrats view their chances in the 2022 election.

 

Congress almost doubled the amount of aid provided to Ukraine during President Barack Obama’s eight years in the White House, supplying $2.1 billion and we have given over $14 billion to Ukraine this year. Ever wonder if the aid we gave Ukraine under Obama is tied to 10% for the Big Guy and if the money we are sending now is just to cover up the past?

Edited May 12, 2022 by relax33

[placeholder]

30 minutes ago, relax33 said:

FYI for a better perspective ..
This is what some Americans are saying about the war ... 

Old men start wars, young men fight them. There are no real winners. Everyone looses something in war.

It was the Socialist Lenin who said that the way to destroy America was through inflation and over taxation. America's domestic socialists are doing that for him.

 

It’s not clear to me why we are in this war but it looks like we are doing it to cover Biden and his corrupted dealings with Ukraine. We are sending billions of dollars overseas when more and more Americans don’t have money to buy food. Now we are even talking about nukes without thinking of the terrible implications of it. I’m surprised a lot of republicans are ok with this. Trump wanted to start thinking about America and focusing on our independence and future. He wanted to end all the corruption in our government and clean up the deep state. He wanted to keep doing business with the world but negotiating from a position of power. He wanted us out of every foreign war. Why aren’t we pursuing his legacy instead of supporting this travesty that may lead us to a path of destruction?

 

Why are Poland, France, England, Germany, and I'm not going to continue this list of all the other countries, "in this war" too? Are they all covering for Biden?? Is the whole western world so enamored with Biden that they are ready to take in millions of refugees and give parts of their smaller budgets and military stocks all to cover for Biden??

 

By many accounts these shipments of weapons like the Javelin anti-tank missile (jointly manufactured by Raytheon and Lockheed Martin) are getting blown up as soon as they arrive in Ukraine. This doesn’t bother Raytheon at all. The more weapons blown up by Russia in Ukraine, the more new orders come from the Pentagon. What we do see is that Russians are capturing modern US and NATO weapons by the ton and even using them to kill more Ukrainians.     What irony. Also, what kinds of opportunities will be provided to terrorists, with thousands of tons of deadly high-tech weapons floating around Europe? Washington has admitted that it has no way of tracking the weapons it is sending to Ukraine and no way to keep them out of the hands of the bad guys."-Bloomberg

 

Has anyone wondered why Biden keeps sending weapons and money to keep the war going instead of diplomats to broker a peace deal? Who's the war monger here?

 

I think the chances of the war in Ukraine expanding are inversely proportional to how the Democrats view their chances in the 2022 election.

 

Congress almost doubled the amount of aid provided to Ukraine during President Barack Obama’s eight years in the White House, supplying $2.1 billion and we have given over $14 billion to Ukraine this year. Ever wonder if the aid we gave Ukraine under Obama is tied to 10% for the Big Guy and if the money we are sending now is just to cover up the past?

You really should acquaint yourself with the rules of thaivisa.com. No more than a headline and 3 sentences from the text you are quoting. And also a link is required. Try again. And then I'll shred that post for the nonsense it is. Won't waste my time now since the mods are sure to take it down.

 

[candide]

2 hours ago, relax33 said:

To each his own , that's te beauty of diversity  ...
Do remember that everyone 's views of things will  differ as they have more information on the subject n am able to look at thing from various perspectives ..

It's always nice to be "wrong n misguided "when it serves a purpose to educate n improve but one might differ if one sees video footage of the luxurious settings he is living in n read about the huge sums of $ he is getting from  the US..
You then learn to flip the question n look from the point of view of "what if" ...
There are tons of information on the internet that lay out the reasons for the Russia invasion n how it could have been stopped months ago n could still be stopped now, including assurances made during the Clinton years when the USSR was dismantled that they would not expand Nato Eastwards by even one inch  ..

When a country is fighting a war it almost has no chance of winning n when winning is hollow (except for the politicians who are making billions from it thru corruption n collusion) ,there is a need to look at things from the grassroots point of view ..

When you do that, you find that the average man in the street just wants peace n a means to make a living n to realize their dreams n aspirations if possible .
They couldn't really be bothered with who the leader is or which party is in charge as the billions made by these politicians will never filter down to them.
(FYI ,.. Ukraine ranks no 140 out of 180 countries on the corruption index in 2021 so we are not expected to believe that its leaders are saints ..)

Ukraine is already poor as it is n this stupid war has destroyed everything n will easily require 30 years to rebuild even if they have the money !!
Who's going to pay for it ??
The debt that results will easily take the country 30 - 50 years to repay ..

If you disregard the money n only focus on the human element .
This war easily sets back the aspiration of the people by at least 3 generations n Time is something more valuable than money as you cannot buy back Time with it ..
Imagine the kids that have to be resettled and the educated females who end up being exploited n forced into vice due to the war;  n the folks who worked hard n borrowed from the bank to buy property that is now destroyed n worthless with them still owing the bank for it ..

If you look at all this, isn't it imperative for any anyone (regardless if he's the leader) who cares for the country n it's people to seek peace asap to limit the damage to property n lives that are occurring every second .
Obviously, there will be more onus on the guy who's leading the country to act appropriately.

Is it too much to ask that this person at least focus on seeking peace rather than wasting time doing podcast to berate European leaders  n that he spends more time on the field to rally n care for the soldiers n civilians  instead of hiding in the comforts of his luxurious bunker .. ??
This is not even a demand but just basic common sense Public Relations  moves that any savvy leader will take ..  He should just flee to Poland if he is fearful for his little life ..

You see civilians who got out of the steel factory in Mariupol saying that they were living in darkness for 6 months  but were then hurriedly led away without divulging more details ..
Who in the right mind will want to stay in such a place for even 2 weeks which begs the question " Why are so many of them there for so long, is it that people are using them as human shields ??
There should be a UN enquiry on this subject right ??, why is it not done ??

So all these deaths and dramas are not because of Putin, but because of Zelinski. And also be because of an oral promise made to the Soviet Union, a Union the Russian federation left in June 1991 when it declared its independence, 6 months before the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

Where do you get your "grassroots point of view" information from? RT? Putin's speeches? ????

[candide]

2 hours ago, relax33 said:

FYI for a better perspective ..
This is what some Americans are saying about the war ... 

Old men start wars, young men fight them. There are no real winners. Everyone looses something in war.

It was the Socialist Lenin who said that the way to destroy America was through inflation and over taxation. America's domestic socialists are doing that for him.

 

It’s not clear to me why we are in this war but it looks like we are doing it to cover Biden and his corrupted dealings with Ukraine. We are sending billions of dollars overseas when more and more Americans don’t have money to buy food. Now we are even talking about nukes without thinking of the terrible implications of it. I’m surprised a lot of republicans are ok with this. Trump wanted to start thinking about America and focusing on our independence and future. He wanted to end all the corruption in our government and clean up the deep state. He wanted to keep doing business with the world but negotiating from a position of power. He wanted us out of every foreign war. Why aren’t we pursuing his legacy instead of supporting this travesty that may lead us to a path of destruction?

 

Why are Poland, France, England, Germany, and I'm not going to continue this list of all the other countries, "in this war" too? Are they all covering for Biden?? Is the whole western world so enamored with Biden that they are ready to take in millions of refugees and give parts of their smaller budgets and military stocks all to cover for Biden??

 

By many accounts these shipments of weapons like the Javelin anti-tank missile (jointly manufactured by Raytheon and Lockheed Martin) are getting blown up as soon as they arrive in Ukraine. This doesn’t bother Raytheon at all. The more weapons blown up by Russia in Ukraine, the more new orders come from the Pentagon. What we do see is that Russians are capturing modern US and NATO weapons by the ton and even using them to kill more Ukrainians.     What irony. Also, what kinds of opportunities will be provided to terrorists, with thousands of tons of deadly high-tech weapons floating around Europe? Washington has admitted that it has no way of tracking the weapons it is sending to Ukraine and no way to keep them out of the hands of the bad guys."-Bloomberg

 

Has anyone wondered why Biden keeps sending weapons and money to keep the war going instead of diplomats to broker a peace deal? Who's the war monger here?

 

I think the chances of the war in Ukraine expanding are inversely proportional to how the Democrats view their chances in the 2022 election.

 

Congress almost doubled the amount of aid provided to Ukraine during President Barack Obama’s eight years in the White House, supplying $2.1 billion and we have given over $14 billion to Ukraine this year. Ever wonder if the aid we gave Ukraine under Obama is tied to 10% for the Big Guy and if the money we are sending now is just to cover up the past?

And now It's Biden's fault! ????

Nothing's better than a good MAGA conspiracy theory, in order to exonerate a bloody autocratic Russian leader! ????

Edited May 12, 2022 by candide

[relax33]

On 5/12/2022 at 1:09 PM, placeholder said:

You really should acquaint yourself with the rules of thaivisa.com. No more than a headline and 3 sentences from the text you are quoting. And also a link is required. Try again. And then I'll shred that post for the nonsense it is. Won't waste my time now since the mods are sure to take it down.

Wow, so afraid !!, Is that a threat ??
Which school you went to that caused you to speak like that ...  555

[relax33]

On 5/12/2022 at 2:46 PM, candide said:

So all these deaths and dramas are not because of Putin, but because of Zelinski

There's no smoke without a fire ..
The one most at fault I'm afraid is the fire starter across the Atlantic ...
Zelinski is one of the parties who could have prevented  death n damage by preventing the war in the first place so of he cause he cannot go unblamed ...

[relax33]

On 5/12/2022 at 1:09 PM, placeholder said:

You really should acquaint yourself with the rules of thaivisa.com. No more than a headline and 3 sentences from the text you are quoting. And also a link is required. Try again. And then I'll shred that post for the nonsense it is. Won't waste my time now since the mods are sure to take it down.

 

For your information,  the quotes were not all from one page  but they were opinions given by each individual to a news article on the war ... n  that's the reason for the spacing !!! 
And these were only some of the quotes as they several pages thick ...
That's why the saying goes " First seek to understand before you attempt to make yourself understood in an uneducated manner " .. 555

[ozimoron]

23 minutes ago, relax33 said:

There's no smoke without a fire ..
The one most at fault I'm afraid is the fire starter across the Atlantic ...
Zelinski is one of the parties who could have prevented  death n damage by preventing the war in the first place so of he cause he cannot go unblamed ...

Zelensky could not possibly have prevented this war. Did he provoke the war crimes as well?

[relax33]

25 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Zelensky could not possibly have prevented this war. Did he provoke the war crimes as well?

Would not like to debate but honestly Ukraine, Nato n the US saw it coming years ago as Putin has repeatedly warned n expressed his unhappiness at Nato's expansion .
In the US, many are saying that Biden is doing it to arrest the dip in his approval ratings  (he is still likely to lose the re-election irregardless) 
Russia took months to amass troops along the border n the US was also openly warning that a war was imminent ..
And the war in Donbas had already gone on for 8 years since 2014, so we can't say that no one saw it coming ...
The US is plainly using Ukraine as a venue n the Ukrainians as human pawns to weaken a systemic rival (Russia) both economically n militarily; that's the reason it wants the war to go on n has not been pushing for peace..
This is plain for all to see especially following biden's latest rhetoric about wanting to weaken Russia to such a state that it will not post a threat to anyone in future ..
Now it is pointless to pin the blame on anyone anymore as damage has already been done n the Ukranians has been set back economically n spiritually by 3 generations at least ..

Rebuilding the country will easily cost 100 - 200 bil usd n it will easily require Ukraine 30 - 50 years to repay it even if they could.
And repaying this debt would require the citizens to be living under extreme austerity during this period ...

Edited May 13, 2022 by relax33

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, relax33 said:

For your information,  the quotes were not all from one page  but they were opinions given by each individual to a news article on the war ... n  that's the reason for the spacing !!! 
And these were only some of the quotes as they several pages thick ...
That's why the saying goes " First seek to understand before you attempt to make yourself understood in an uneducated manner " .. 555

That does not negate the requirement for a link or separate links to the quotes and claims made that you've copied and pasted.

[scorecard]

On 5/6/2022 at 10:35 AM, Jingthing said:

The only real hope for peace in Ukraine, etc. is to beat Putin's ass in the WAR.  Clearly Asean wants to stay neutral. Not helpful!

... and the local attitude is contradictory and not helpful, and doesn't seem to align with what ASEAN now seems to be saying.  

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, relax33 said:

Would not like to debate but honestly Ukraine, Nato n the US saw it coming years ago as Putin has repeatedly warned n expressed his unhappiness at Nato's expansion .
In the US, many are saying that Biden is doing it to arrest the dip in his approval ratings  (he is still likely to lose the re-election irregardless) 
Russia took months to amass troops along the border n the US was also openly warning that a war was imminent ..
And the war in Donbas had already gone on for 8 years since 2014, so we can't say that no one saw it coming ...
The US is plainly using Ukraine as a venue n the Ukrainians as human pawns to weaken a systemic rival (Russia) both economically n militarily; that's the reason it wants the war to go on n has not been pushing for peace..
This is plain for all to see especially following biden's latest rhetoric about wanting to weaken Russia to such a state that it will not post a threat to anyone in future ..
Now it is pointless to pin the blame on anyone anymore as damage has already been done n the Ukranians has been set back economically n spiritually by 3 generations at least ..

Rebuilding the country will easily cost 100 - 200 bil usd n it will easily require Ukraine 30 - 50 years to repay it even if they could.
And repaying this debt would require the citizens to be living under extreme austerity during this period ...

To be clear, the US (and Biden) were warning that Putin was lying and that Russia really intended to invade Ukraine. The extent of the destruction, targeting of civilians and the war crimes was a shock to the whole western world. Your take on this is a delusion at best.

 

It won't be Ukraine paying the reconstruction bill, it will be Russia. Either way, Russia's economy is crippled and will remain so for the foreseeable future to prevent Russia from threatening other nations.

[placeholder]

On 5/12/2022 at 11:06 AM, relax33 said:

(FYI ,.. Ukraine ranks no 140 out of 180 countries on the corruption index in 2021 so we are not expected to believe that its leaders are saints ..)

When will you stop with the falsehoods? According to the Transparency International Corruption Index Ukraine is at 122 out of 180. That's a pretty bad score. You know who has a worse one? Russia. It ranks #136.

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021?gclid=Cj0KCQjwg_iTBhDrARIsAD3Ib5jnvTgvhUzHYg7kdLRG5FYlDKEFsGNuBksaAN8jnZANEFSeIkxDdBkaAtboEALw_wcB

Edited May 13, 2022 by placeholder

[relax33]

49 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

That does not negate the requirement for a link or separate links to the quotes and claims made that you've copied and pasted.

It's blatantly obvious that the separation had been done by spacing them out.
Each extracted quote represents an individual voice that deserves to be heard .
I could edit it to cut each quote down to 3 sentences if needed but felt that would be a disrespectful breach of free speech n expression ..

Have a funny feeling that it's a case of "reality hurts" that leads people to pick fault at how things were laid out when it's the content that matters most ..
Hopefully, this is not the case ..
 

[relax33]

39 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

To be clear, the US (and Biden) were warning that Putin was lying and that Russia really intended to invade Ukraine. The extent of the destruction, targeting of civilians and the war crimes was a shock to the whole western world. Your take on this is a delusion at best.

You can equally find a ton of content that suggest the contrary ..
There is always both sides to a coin so it's always good to present disparate  views n let people make their own conclusion ...

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, relax33 said:

It's blatantly obvious that the separation had been done by spacing them out.
Each extracted quote represents an individual voice that deserves to be heard .
I could edit it to cut each quote down to 3 sentences if needed but felt that would be a disrespectful breach of free speech n expression ..

Have a funny feeling that it's a case of "reality hurts" that leads people to pick fault at how things were laid out when it's the content that matters most ..
Hopefully, this is not the case ..
 

Without links to credible sources it carries zero credibility much like the the remainder of your post

 

For instance, this one snippet from your post:

 

"By many accounts these shipments of weapons like the Javelin anti-tank missile (jointly manufactured by Raytheon and Lockheed Martin) are getting blown up as soon as they arrive in Ukraine."

 

What is the source and link to that?

Edited May 13, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[ozimoron]

Just now, relax33 said:

You can equally find a ton of content that suggest the contrary ..
There is always both sides to a coin so it's always good to present disparate  views n let people make their own conclusion ...

Feel free to provide credible links without breaking forum rules. When it suits you, you quote too much from biased sites and when it doesn't you quote nothing. Both approaches lessen the board experience for all of us.

[Slip]

On 5/9/2022 at 2:09 PM, ArcticFox said:

Absolutely Jingthing!  I'm with you 100%. Declare <snipped for brevity> 

Worldwide!!!  Let's put an end to Tyranny!

Well in sir- you are good for something at least.  I enjoyed your post enormously.

[relax33]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

When will you stop with the falsehoods? According to the Transparency International Corruption Index Ukraine is at 122 out of 180. That's a pretty bad score. You know who has a worse one? Russia. It ranks #136.

True, but 122 is equally bad n it's like the pot calling the kettle black
In fact, if you look back thru history, you find that regimes supported by the US often turn up to be extremely corrupt; so much that it looks far beyond  being just a mere coincidence
It's like opening a can of worms n it's all over the places in countries ranging from Vietnam, China, Iran, Philippines, Indonesia , Afghanistan etc ..

[relax33]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

"By many accounts these shipments of weapons like the Javelin anti-tank missile (jointly manufactured by Raytheon and Lockheed Martin) are getting blown up as soon as they arrive in Ukraine."

As I "ve said, it's just a quote..
Go after the guys who say it if you want.
Often there's no smoke without a fire n folks should embrace articles like that to show that they have nothing to hide ..
I"m sure the truth will emerge if someone is willing to pay enough for an investigation ..

Bare in mind that i do not work for the forum n am just doing community service to make the content more meaningful ...

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, relax33 said:

As I "ve said, it's just a quote..
Go after the guys who say it if you want.
Often there's no smoke without a fire n folks should embrace articles like that to show that they have nothing to hide ..
I"m sure the truth will emerge if someone is willing to pay enough for an investigation ..

Bare in mind that i do not work for the forum n am just doing community service to make the content more meaningful ...

Thats not how it works and is against forum rules, you"ve already been told that. 

 

Quote something, have a link to prove it otherwise it is you delibiratly spreading fake news

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, relax33 said:

True, but 122 is equally bad n it's like the pot calling the kettle black
In fact, if you look back thru history, you find that regimes supported by the US often turn up to be extremely corrupt; so much that it looks far beyond  being just a mere coincidence
It's like opening a can of worms n it's all over the places in countries ranging from Vietnam, China, Iran, Philippines, Indonesia , Afghanistan etc ..

You definitely need to learn some respect for math.. And maybe some reconsideration of the rules of evidence. Like linking to honest sources. But then you wouldn't be able to make false claims. And I guess when you've got nothing, it's best to cite irrelevancies. Why not focus on the current situation instead? Since you brought the corruption index up, and thanks very much for that, let's take a look at how the highest rated nations view the Russian invasion.. Out of the top 10 countries listed, all condemn the Russian invasion Out of the top 20 countries listed, only one has refused to condemn the Russian invasion. Does that tell you anything? Or is the corruption index only relevant when it serves your purposes?

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, relax33 said:

Looks like you do not understand simple english
Am just stating an opinion expressed by others
It's nothing different from opinions expressed by yourself as they are humans too n they have the right to express n be heard  ..

Whether it 's true or not is up to the individual to judge ..
But of course u do know that the Arms makers contribute a huge amount of funds to the presidential candidates of both parties during election time  n they also contribute to lobbying groups to help canvass support for the different causes that they want to advance ..
On equal measure, you will need to supply proof that every statement you make is correctly supported by facts for whatever agenda you will like to advance ..
You can keep talking about the subject but this is the last time I will dwell on it  as its's a plain waste of time talking to a wall .. 
Understand Ignorance can be blissful so do what makes you happy ...  

Yet you said in the previous post it was a quote and I should take it up with the people who wrote it. 

 

You're a waste of space. done with your nonsense

[Scott]

Continued bickering will result in suspensions.   If you quote or attribute something to a source, then post a link.  Making personal remarks and commentary on other members is trolling.  

 

Keep it civil.  Keep it on topic.