Expat health insurance, company reviews requested?

[supermac]

Hello are any expats out there using WR LIFE UK as a health service provider there quote is very competetive and professional but very little information is available from current or former customers,they are currently focusing on a advertising campaign on Facebook.i have complered my due diligence and they appear safe but I would feel better with real live reviews.

[scubascuba3]

How did your due diligence show they are safe?

[buddy2010]

The only difference to other health insurances are the low lines ! 
Like all others : pre-existing conditions excluded !!!
Good for 18 year old people ????  If they have not been sick before ????
Expats, without pre-sickness,do they exist ??

[KannikaP]

I have taken out a policy with them, Serenity plan. In patient only, 74 years old, £211 per month.

Told them all my past conditions, which are minimal. Will not know if it is any good until I come to make a claim.

[jerrymahoney]

You can start here with several posts +/- to follow and a few before:

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1254832-private-health-cover-increased-by-almost-100-in-2-years/?do=findComment&comment=17301976

 

[supermac]

buddy2010

• Advanced Member
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Posted 3 hours ago

The only difference to other health insurances are the low lines ! 
Like all others : pre-existing conditions excluded !!!
Good for 18 year old people   If they have not been sick before 
Expats, without pre-sickness,do they exist ??    Pre sickness no? everybody gets sick but previous or current issues none guess ive been lucky.

[Sheryl]

They are a very new company and there is very limited info on claims payouts.

 

I suggest you do further investigation as real "due diligence" would include verifying that they have financial assets adequate to cover future pay outs.

 

To me, their business model does not seem at all financially feasible and I think that will become apparent with time. 

 

There is a reason other, longer established companies have much higher premiums and raise premiums with age and the reason is NOT simple greed. Rather it is careful actuarial computations and experience.

[KannikaP]

16 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

They are a very new company and there is very limited info 9n claims payouts.

 

I suggest you do further investigation as real "due diligence" would include verifying that they have financial assets adequate to cover future pay outs.

 

To me, their business model does not seem at all financially feasible and I think that will become apparent with time. 

 

There is a reason other, longer established companies have much higher premiums and raise premiums with age and the reason is NOT simple greed. Rather it is careful actuarial computations and experience.

This is a bit concerting but let's see. In an earlier link, one man said he had a full hip replacement after an accident fully paid for by WRLife.

Referring to your last paragraph Sheryl, these longer established companies may HAVE to put up their premiums because there are many older customers dropping out because of those rises = Catch 22.

Edited May 13, 2022 by KannikaP

[keithsimmonds]

13 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

This is a bit concerting but let's see. In an earlier link, one man said he had a full hip replacement after an accident fully paid for by WRLife.

Referring to your last paragraph Sheryl, these longer established companies may HAVE to put up their premiums because there are many older customers dropping out because of those rises = Catch 22.

Some new companiies just gate crash the market dont get there sums right are taken to the cleaners and then up there Premiums to try and claw back money they are never going to get...David Shield/Passport...2 claims over 2 million baht paid in full and only 2 years premiums in there coffers...ouch.

[scubascuba3]

34 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

This is a bit concerting but let's see. In an earlier link, one man said he had a full hip replacement after an accident fully paid for by WRLife.

 

It's difficult for companies to deny accident claims

[HauptmannUK]

I did a little bit of research into WRLife.

They have a small office in London and are registered at UK Companies' House.  Their marketing information appears to have been written a person with English as a second language. There is one person with 'Significant Control' - he is French and resides in France.

Another company officer is Indian and resides in India.  The remaining company officers are Thai and live in Thailand.  The Thai company officers are all associated with Assist International Services, 284 Thanon Phra Ram 9, Bang Kapi, Huai Khwang, Bangkok 10310, Thailand.  This is a 'medical and technical assistance company' and, in turn, the senior people are also passociated with Thonburi Hospital.

 

"Assist International Services (AIS) is a medical and technical assistance provider company with its registered office in Bangkok since 2003 in response to the need of assistance services from travelers, local nationals and throughout Indochina.

We have succeeded in its positioning medical and technical assistance provider company that facilitates the patients and tourists in the areas of patient care. We provide medical services to locals throughout the whole country operating 24 hours a day, 365 days a year."

 

The emergency assistance number for WRLife is a Bangkok number.

[jerrymahoney]

First off that was my post about WRLife. I first started looking to change insurers because , after 5+ years with CignaGlobal, I was moving to an area with no direct payment hospital. I found the CignaGlobal procedures with no direct payment for emergency or non-emergency to be unacceptable. Also, at age 70, I was limited to my choiice of insurers including April. And the WRlife folks knew that I had 10 years with BUPA-Thailand pre-Aetna and 5+ years with CignaGlobal with zero claims.

 

This OP and others have asked for first-hand claim experience and that is what I provided. I also noted that the claim came within months of a new policy which always gets the attention of the claims persons as to whether this was an un-declared pre-existing condition.

 

But whether anyone else chooses to go with them or that they would have the same claims experience is up to them.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[scubascuba3]

24 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

I did a little bit of research into WRLife.

They have a small office in London and are registered at UK Companies' House.  Their marketing information appears to have been written a person with English as a second language. There is one person with 'Significant Control' - he is French and resides in France.

Another company officer is Indian and resides in India.  The remaining company officers are Thai and live in Thailand.  The Thai company officers are all associated with Assist International Services, 284 Thanon Phra Ram 9, Bang Kapi, Huai Khwang, Bangkok 10310, Thailand.  This is a 'medical and technical assistance company' and, in turn, the senior people are also passociated with Thonburi Hospital.

 

"Assist International Services (AIS) is a medical and technical assistance provider company with its registered office in Bangkok since 2003 in response to the need of assistance services from travelers, local nationals and throughout Indochina.

We have succeeded in its positioning medical and technical assistance provider company that facilitates the patients and tourists in the areas of patient care. We provide medical services to locals throughout the whole country operating 24 hours a day, 365 days a year."

 

The emergency assistance number for WRLife is a Bangkok number.

Setting up a UK ltd company costs about £60 which is registered at company house, anyone can do it, even with no capital.  You can download the last annual accounts, the last time i did it it cost £1

Edited May 13, 2022 by scubascuba3

[jerrymahoney]

13 hours ago, Sheryl said:

They are a very new company and there is very limited info on claims payouts.

Just to note, they have been running this Advertorial in the 'Insurance in Thailand'  Forum on AN/TV since OCT 2019.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1127060-ethical-participative-and-affordable-medical-insurance-for-expatriates/

 

[Andycoops]

18 hours ago, buddy2010 said:

The only difference to other health insurances are the low lines ! 
Like all others : pre-existing conditions excluded !!!
Good for 18 year old people ????  If they have not been sick before ????
Expats, without pre-sickness,do they exist ??

Yes. I am 65 and have no pre existing conditions nor did I when I took up my policy with Pacific Cross.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, Andycoops said:

Yes. I am 65 and have no pre existing conditions nor did I when I took up my policy with Pacific Cross.

They can and do find pre-existing conditions, you won't know until you claim

[buddy2010]

Exactly so it is!

 

Whether you had a "previous illness" in the sense of the insurance, tells you in the event of a claim, your insurance!

 

And that is the only thing that is "SAFE"! 

Especially from an age of 65 years!

[Sheryl]

Reputable international insurers will identify any pre-existing conditions at the time a policy is issued, after a process of thorough medical underwriting, and specify any exclusions in the policy itself. No unexpected issues in the future unless it emerges that you significantly lied in your initial medical history.

 

This business of digging for additional "pre-existing" conditions as an excuse for denying claims later on is pretty much limited to Thai companies  and one of several reasons I always recommend getting an internationally-issued expat policy.

[jerrymahoney]

On 5/13/2022 at 3:36 PM, Sheryl said:

They are a very new company and there is very limited info on claims payouts.

 

I suggest you do further investigation as real "due diligence" would include verifying that they have financial assets adequate to cover future pay outs.

 

To me, their business model does not seem at all financially feasible and I think that will become apparent with time. 

 

There is a reason other, longer established companies have much higher premiums and raise premiums with age and the reason is NOT simple greed. Rather it is careful actuarial computations and experience.

Have you ever heard the phrase "certain underwriters at Lloyd's" ?

 

As with this sample doc:

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[The Hammer2021]

Try Thai Life

[scubascuba3]

40 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Have you ever heard the phrase "certain underwriters at Lloyd's" ?

 

As with this sample doc:

 

I don't see anything in their docs about underwriting, have you seen anything?

 

In terms of London office they refer to holding and accounting.

 

Someone could always visit their preferred hospital and ask them what their process would be for WRLife i.e. pay up front and reclaim back

[jerrymahoney]

43 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I don't see anything in their docs about underwriting, have you seen anything?

 

In terms of London office they refer to holding and accounting.

 

Someone could always visit their preferred hospital and ask them what their process would be for WRLife i.e. pay up front and reclaim back

Look I read it on here that their business model may not at all be financially feasible so I just hope that, if I need to put in one or more claims with them, they are put in before the firm goes belly-up.

Edited May 14, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[Sheryl]

On 5/14/2022 at 7:06 PM, jerrymahoney said:

Look I read it on here that their business model may not at all be financially feasible so I just hope that, if I need to put in one or more claims with them, they are put in before the firm goes belly-up.

Precisely.

 

You need also to consider that they may do what others have done/are now doing and try to avoid going bust by sharply raising their rates.

 

If this happens (or the ":belly up" scenario) the big problem will be for those who are over 65 or have already developed what would be considered pre-existing conditions. As it my be hard or even impossible for them to change insurers at that point.

[KannikaP]

I have had a policy with them for 4 months @ 211 GBP per month. I pay monthly so I can quit anytime.

On the application form there was very little space to put any previous treatment, pre-existings etc. After this thread I got a bit worried so this morning sent them an email with comprehensive truthful breakdown of all the tests, hospital visits I have had in the past 10 years, including an angiogram and two overnight stays, and I asked whether any of those would be classed as pre-conditions.

Just got an email back to say NO EXCLUSIONS for IPD treatment, only take home meds. That seem to be the 'right' answer, but of course, they could be lying.

[jerrymahoney]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Precisely.

 

You need also to consider that they may do what others have done/are now doing and try to avoid going bust by sharply raising their rates.

 

If this happens (or the ":belly up" scenario) the big problem will be for those who are over 65 or have already developed what would be considered pre-existing conditions. As it my be hard or even impossible for them to change insurers at that point.

Precisely? Sorry that was sarcasm. From the WrLife website

 

"We’re a fully-licenced independent insurance group with over 30 years experience of providing specialised insurance for expats (and) We are fully-licenced insurance agents and brokers..."

 

They list their UK and EU insurance and reinsurance registrations.

 

I came on here because several persons have asked about any first-hand claim experience with WrLife and that is what I provided.  I'm not going to get into the viability or non-viability of their business.

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[scubascuba3]

4 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Precisely? Sorry that was sarcasm. From the WrLife website

 

"We’re a fully-licenced independent insurance group with over 30 years experience of providing specialised insurance for expats (and) We are fully-licenced insurance agents and brokers..."

 

They list their UK and EU insurance and reinsurance registrations.

 

With 30 years experience you think they'd have lot's of reviews, nothing on trustpilot, Bupa for example has thousands of reviews last time i checked

[jerrymahoney]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

With 30 years experience you think they'd have lot's of reviews, nothing on trustpilot, Bupa for example has thousands of reviews last time i checked

I'm not playing gotcha with you.

[KannikaP]

On 5/14/2022 at 7:40 AM, scubascuba3 said:

They can and do find pre-existing conditions, you won't know until you claim

How can someone declare a pre-existing condition if they don't know that they've got it?

Edited May 16, 2022 by KannikaP

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

How can someone declare a pre-existing condition if they don't know that they've got it?

Quite, but thai insurers can pull that one, Sheryl has mentioned it a few times.

 

What regs do WR Life follow? Thai? UK\EU or something else?

[KannikaP]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

Quite, but thai insurers can pull that one, Sheryl has mentioned it a few times.

 

What regs do WR Life follow? Thai? UK\EU or something else?

I am paying my premiums in GBP so I would hope UK law......for what it's worth!