Bangkok, Jakarta, and Manila are among top sinking Asian cities

[AgentSmith]

16 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

It is not 2100 yet so .... why worry? It is known already for sometime and the Netherlands offered help to prevent floodings, but hailand did not  eed the help and could deal with it alone.. So in the coming years probably nothing will change as we see every year floods all over the country too, and when the water is not withdrawing anymore they will start to think 

They will never think in terms of solutions in Thailand. All they will ever do is mitigate. And it shows because as you said they don't think they need the help of the experts but with a bit of knowledge you know they do. Because about everything they do in Bangkok in terms of city construction is wrong.

 

There's concrete everywhere even under canals meaning water has no way to reach the soil. And when a soil dries out it compresses. This has been known in The Netherlands since about the 1600s and is the reason why all groundwater levels there are artificial. This is done wrong in many parts of the world though but at least some are learning to change.

 

When the Dutch were called into New Orleans after hurricane Katrina had hit the first thing they asked is this: if this is a water city then where is all the water? Cities have been making a habit to hide the water and tunnel it away as quickly as possible. If you want a city to stand the test of time instead of fighting the water you need to work with it. Understand how it behaves and adapt the city accordingly. Create flood planes. Remove pavement wherever possible by creating more strips of green in the streets.

 

In Thailand every square cm of any residential area seems to be paved over, wall to wall, side to side. It's as if people don't want to live in a green setting.

[Soikhaonoiken]

Ahh,  the purchase of those submarines make sense now..

[Taunusianer]

It's more or less a copy&paste article form the wiki page sinking cities. But wiki gives some good informations how things are connected. 

 

Indonesia is moving is capital already, Thailand had this disscusion in the past, too. We will see, when it will return

[bendejo]

4 hours ago, AgentSmith said:

New Orleans after hurricane Katrina

Check the movie Beasts of the Southern Wild

Not New Orleans, but the area around it.  It's a story about humans, but it is as if the water itself is a character in the story.

 

 

[bangkok19]

ALARMISM is what we don't need but as long as the Climate Industry (sorry, 'religion') forces this stuff down our throats the facts are pushed to one side and ignored.

It's a money-making industry with Governments throwing money (in subsidies) to organisations and (already wealthy) multinationals that are trying ways to make renewable energy and keep the planet greener.

N.A.S.A. says global "warming" is not a bad thing. Crops are in abundance worldwide more than ever, the islands in the South Pacific are actually rising and not sinking, and cyclones worldwide have decreased over the past 30 years.

Serious flooding in another 8 years??  Really? The sea levels haven't risen that fast in the past 800 years.

Unfortunately $$$$ and alarmism get in the way of the facts.  

[AgentSmith]

5 hours ago, bangkok19 said:

ALARMISM is what we don't need but as long as the Climate Industry (sorry, 'religion') forces this stuff down our throats the facts are pushed to one side and ignored.

It's a money-making industry with Governments throwing money (in subsidies) to organisations and (already wealthy) multinationals that are trying ways to make renewable energy and keep the planet greener.

N.A.S.A. says global "warming" is not a bad thing. Crops are in abundance worldwide more than ever, the islands in the South Pacific are actually rising and not sinking, and cyclones worldwide have decreased over the past 30 years.

Serious flooding in another 8 years??  Really? The sea levels haven't risen that fast in the past 800 years.

Unfortunately $$$$ and alarmism get in the way of the facts.  

Come on so you really think Indonesia is moving its capital city for fun? Floods are the real deal and they become more and more frequent. Climate change has been a thing throughout this planet's history. You can at least acknowledge that without making it political. You might even leave out the possible causes because for cities that are coping with it the most it doesn't really matter. They just need to make the proper changes so all this water doesn't have as much influence as it often does now. It's a hands-on thing really. Nothing to do with anyone's agenda.

[teelac777]

Oh, the irony of it all.

30 years ago they filled in the BKK canals and built condos oooops.

Manila and Jakarta followed suit later.

 

[Stargeezr]

Yes I have walked down a few back alleyway, small sois, in Bangkok and other places in Thailand

and the stink from the gutters was eye watering. How about that city in Europe that has canals and

is affected by the tides? How much longer before it is all under water? In Bangkok, they can keep building 

upstream along the rivers, as the land must be higher, since water does not flow up hill.

 

 

[Lacessit]

On 5/17/2022 at 6:27 AM, blazes said:

What a terrible piece of journalism (though typical in UK and USA on this subject), happily passing on the questionable science of the IPCC, which itself is a biased UN organization using computer models that make assumptions about the future rendered skewed by the biases of those scientists working for governments and NGOs around the world (but especially in the UK and USA). 

Note how the media (and scientists) have changed the buzz word in the last decade from "global warming" to "climate change" which seems vaguely threatening, but in fact I would hazard a guess that most people would prefer a warming climate than a cooling one.

 

There has always been climate change throughout the last 800,000 years, and that will always be so.  At least ALL scientists can agree on that.

But what propaganda pieces like this never discuss is the way CO2 emissions restrict the escape of the earth's natural radiation (and warmth) into the cool depths of space, and so keep the warmth at home.

 

At the same time, it behooves all of us (I hope we agree) to reduce pollution wherever we can, but pollution is a different (and more important) subject than climate change.

Your post exhibits a lack of understanding of how the terms "global warming" and "climate change" are interlinked by the laws of thermodynamics.

Global warming is resulting from anthropomorphic emissions of carbon dioxide, the trend from 300 ppm to more than 400 ppm since the Industrial Revolution is irrefutable. It's the Second Law of Thermodynamics in operation.

Climate change is the First Law. As the seas warm via heat absorption ( Second Law again ), storms become more violent and frequent. Every meteorologist knows that.

Insurance companies are not science-based, although they do listen to the science. When the Insurance Council of Australia declares 1 in 25 houses in areas vulnerable to climate change (bushfire, flood ) will become uninsureable by 2030, homeowners had better be listening too.

Pooh-poohing models is fashionable among climate sceptics, even though most scientists are quite conservative in modelling, and the assumptions they use. What matters more is what is happening NOW. The Larsen Ice Shelf is melting at an unprecedented rate, Iceland's glaciers are disappearing, record heat cells in Australia over the last ten years. Russia, of all places, is fighting bushfires as I type.

I don't disagree pollution is important too, our addiction to plastic is a plague. However, I think you won't be too impressed when insurance companies double your yearly house insurance premium because they disagree with your assessment of how important climate change is to you.

I am wondering how insurance companies are assessing their risk in Bangkok, the combination of sinking, and rising sea levels, for a city that is only one meter above said sea levels presumably makes for some intense boardroom discussions.

[Lacessit]

On 5/18/2022 at 4:02 AM, bangkok19 said:

ALARMISM is what we don't need but as long as the Climate Industry (sorry, 'religion') forces this stuff down our throats the facts are pushed to one side and ignored.

It's a money-making industry with Governments throwing money (in subsidies) to organisations and (already wealthy) multinationals that are trying ways to make renewable energy and keep the planet greener.

N.A.S.A. says global "warming" is not a bad thing. Crops are in abundance worldwide more than ever, the islands in the South Pacific are actually rising and not sinking, and cyclones worldwide have decreased over the past 30 years.

Serious flooding in another 8 years??  Really? The sea levels haven't risen that fast in the past 800 years.

Unfortunately $$$$ and alarmism get in the way of the facts.  

Oh please. The rate of deforestation is way more than the carbon dioxide absorbed by plants that only grow one meter high. About one-third of the excess carbon dioxide from the Industrial Revolution on is being absorbed into the oceans, the Great Barrier Reef is having record bleaching events.

Strange the governments of the Pacific islands don't agree with you.

Please post the link where NASA says global warming is not a bad thing. Since over 95% of scientists think it is not going to be good for humanity, I doubt you have one.

Insurance companies are quite hard-headed businessmen, you think the hike in house insurance premiums happening now is because they are religious adherents?

[placeholder]

On 5/18/2022 at 4:02 AM, bangkok19 said:

ALARMISM is what we don't need but as long as the Climate Industry (sorry, 'religion') forces this stuff down our throats the facts are pushed to one side and ignored.

It's a money-making industry with Governments throwing money (in subsidies) to organisations and (already wealthy) multinationals that are trying ways to make renewable energy and keep the planet greener.

N.A.S.A. says global "warming" is not a bad thing. Crops are in abundance worldwide more than ever, the islands in the South Pacific are actually rising and not sinking, and cyclones worldwide have decreased over the past 30 years.

Serious flooding in another 8 years??  Really? The sea levels haven't risen that fast in the past 800 years.

Unfortunately $$$$ and alarmism get in the way of the facts.  

Here's what NASA says:

The Effects of Climate Change

"The effects of human-caused global warming are happening now, are irreversible on the timescale of people alive today, and will worsen in the decades to come...

Droughts in the Southwest and heat waves (periods of abnormally hot weather lasting days to weeks) everywhere are projected to become more intense, and cold waves less intense everywhere...

Hurricane-associated storm intensity and rainfall rates are projected to increase as the climate continues to warm."

https://climate.nasa.gov/effects/

 

 

[bangkok19]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Here's what NASA says:

The Effects of Climate Change

"The effects of human-caused global warming are happening now, are irreversible on the timescale of people alive today, and will worsen in the decades to come...

Droughts in the Southwest and heat waves (periods of abnormally hot weather lasting days to weeks) everywhere are projected to become more intense, and cold waves less intense everywhere...

Hurricane-associated storm intensity and rainfall rates are projected to increase as the climate continues to warm."

https://climate.nasa.gov/effects/

 

 

YOU'RE LOOKING AT AN OUTDATED N.A.S.A. REPORT.

Their recent report (dated April, 2022) paints a much less dramatic picture.

Periods of abnormal hot weather have been part of the climate cycle for tens of thousands of years....   

As I previously said..  it's a 'religion' and unfortunately there are folks out there that are part of the brethren.

With all the news agencies in the world quoting so-called climate experts, there is just as much info out there AGAINST climate change as there is FOR it.

People quote the "science" but sometimes the originator of the 'science' have an agenda.

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, bangkok19 said:

With all the news agencies in the world quoting so-called climate experts, there is just as much info out there AGAINST climate change as there is FOR it.

People quote the "science" but sometimes the originator of the 'science' have an agenda.

The information against climate change is all on social media, where deniers can seek out cherry-picked data for confirmation of their biases. They confuse quantity with quality.

Gee whiz, you don't think deniers have an agenda? It's actually quite simple, if they say it is not happening, it isn't.

When scientists and engineers come up with marvelous things to improve our lives, such as smartphones, aircraft, and clean water, everyone cheers. When it's something they don't like, they shoot the messenger.

Yes, scientists have an agenda. It's alerting ordinary people to the fact they are facing an existential challenge. And if you think economic refugeeism is bad now, see what happens in 2050 when a billion people are only getting half the water supply they used to. Luckily, I'm not going to be around to see it.

Global warming and climate change are real, get used to it. Pro tip: Don't buy any property that is vulnerable to natural disasters. Because they are only going to get bigger, and more expensive.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Lacessit

[bangkok19]

On 5/20/2022 at 1:28 PM, Lacessit said:

The information against climate change is all on social media, where deniers can seek out cherry-picked data for confirmation of their biases. They confuse quantity with quality.

Gee whiz, you don't think deniers have an agenda? It's actually quite simple, if they say it is not happening, it isn't.

When scientists and engineers come up with marvelous things to improve our lives, such as smartphones, aircraft, and clean water, everyone cheers. When it's something they don't like, they shoot the messenger.

Yes, scientists have an agenda. It's alerting ordinary people to the fact they are facing an existential challenge. And if you think economic refugeeism is bad now, see what happens in 2050 when a billion people are only getting half the water supply they used to. Luckily, I'm not going to be around to see it.

Global warming and climate change are real, get used to it. Pro tip: Don't buy any property that is vulnerable to natural disasters. Because they are only going to get bigger, and more expensive.

This Forum is about the closest thing to social media I use!

I'm not a scientist but my mind is OPEN to both sides of the Climate argument.

I also know (for example) that closing down coal-fired power stations will not stop all flooding, droughts and bushfires.

Because of all the Climate alarmism in the world YOU have been sucked in...  just like some of the school children that are scared out of their wits thinking the world is going to end in 5 years time!!  That's the climate religion being preached by their school teachers. The "Three R's" in the kid's school curriculum has been reduced to include "climate change".  Kids leave school not knowing some of the basics in written English and Arithmetic but can quote the fallacies about climate change they learn from their teacher or read on Twitter by some so-called "influencer". 

To state the obvious - the climate has been changing (in cycles) since Earth and time (as we know it) began...   however now it's become an Industry...  especially for power -   Governments subsidizing  Renewable Energy companies who will eventually pocket a huge profit thank you very much. It's all about the money!  .....and guess who pays for it at the end of the day?  Me..  in higher (yet unreliable) energy prices.

 

You'll be sitting in your bunker with your laptop powered by your pedal-powered generator for years to come waiting for the world to end....  GET OUT and enjoy the world, it's not all doom and gloom!      

 

  

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, bangkok19 said:

This Forum is about the closest thing to social media I use!

I'm not a scientist but my mind is OPEN to both sides of the Climate argument.

I also know (for example) that closing down coal-fired power stations will not stop all flooding, droughts and bushfires.

Because of all the Climate alarmism in the world YOU have been sucked in...  just like some of the school children that are scared out of their wits thinking the world is going to end in 5 years time!!  That's the climate religion being preached by their school teachers. The "Three R's" in the kid's school curriculum has been reduced to include "climate change".  Kids leave school not knowing some of the basics in written English and Arithmetic but can quote the fallacies about climate change they learn from their teacher or read on Twitter by some so-called "influencer". 

To state the obvious - the climate has been changing (in cycles) since Earth and time (as we know it) began...   however now it's become an Industry...  especially for power -   Governments subsidizing  Renewable Energy companies who will eventually pocket a huge profit thank you very much. It's all about the money!  .....and guess who pays for it at the end of the day?  Me..  in higher (yet unreliable) energy prices.

 

You'll be sitting in your bunker with your laptop powered by your pedal-powered generator for years to come waiting for the world to end....  GET OUT and enjoy the world, it's not all doom and gloom!      

 

  

I'll be dead before I need bunkers or pedal power, and I do get out and enjoy myself in the time I have left.

 

AFAIK the vast majority of subsidies in Australia go to the fossil fuel industry, the renewables industries get SFA. They are only supported by market forces. It doesn't make sense to you free energy from the sun results in lower costs? I suggest you check out the running cost of an EV vs. an ICE, per km. Or the electricity cost of a household that has solar panels, against one that hasn't.

 

"Climate change is cyclical". Quite true, except this particular cycle is caused by anthropomorphic emissions of carbon dioxide.

 

Your increased costs of electricity result from power companies who gold-plated their assets before renewables started encroaching on their customer base, they are now scrambling to recover their sunk capital cost. That impacts the poorest in society, the rich mostly have installed solar panels on their roofs.

 

Religion is a matter of belief. Climate science is a matter of fact. You were probably asleep during thermodynamics class, assuming you even made it there. Albedo and clathrates are very probably unfamiliar terms to you, so it's fairly useless to explain their role. But hey, if you think you are smarter than the more than 95% of scientists who accept the reality of global warming and climate change, who am I to argue with the heir of Einstein?

 

 

 

[bangkok19]

18 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I'll be dead before I need bunkers or pedal power, and I do get out and enjoy myself in the time I have left.

 

AFAIK the vast majority of subsidies in Australia go to the fossil fuel industry, the renewables industries get SFA. They are only supported by market forces. It doesn't make sense to you free energy from the sun results in lower costs? I suggest you check out the running cost of an EV vs. an ICE, per km. Or the electricity cost of a household that has solar panels, against one that hasn't.

 

"Climate change is cyclical". Quite true, except this particular cycle is caused by anthropomorphic emissions of carbon dioxide.

 

Your increased costs of electricity result from power companies who gold-plated their assets before renewables started encroaching on their customer base, they are now scrambling to recover their sunk capital cost. That impacts the poorest in society, the rich mostly have installed solar panels on their roofs.

 

Religion is a matter of belief. Climate science is a matter of fact. You were probably asleep during thermodynamics class, assuming you even made it there. Albedo and clathrates are very probably unfamiliar terms to you, so it's fairly useless to explain their role. But hey, if you think you are smarter than the more than 95% of scientists who accept the reality of global warming and climate change, who am I to argue with the heir of Einstein?

 

 

 

It'a all about the money, money, money!

Many scientists and Uni professors know the truth, but if they don't toe the line (and preach the climate alarmism) they lose their jobs!  That makes a mockery of your (quote) "95% of scientists."   It's the rich and wealthy pushing this "alarmism" along as there's money to be made.  Some Governments are reluctantly setting 100% renewable targets for fear of losing overseas trading partners. It's all about the money!

The so-called "climate models" they use have always been way off the mark.

You can blind with me your 'science' all you like...  but I'm the one not wearing blinkers.

FYI - I did actually go to school and the Albedo effect contributed to the Ice Age as well as the warming...  the "cycle" remember?

And that's my final say on the matter.   I win!

  

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, bangkok19 said:

It'a all about the money, money, money!

Many scientists and Uni professors know the truth, but if they don't toe the line (and preach the climate alarmism) they lose their jobs!  That makes a mockery of your (quote) "95% of scientists."   It's the rich and wealthy pushing this "alarmism" along as there's money to be made.  Some Governments are reluctantly setting 100% renewable targets for fear of losing overseas trading partners. It's all about the money!

The so-called "climate models" they use have always been way off the mark.

You can blind with me your 'science' all you like...  but I'm the one not wearing blinkers.

FYI - I did actually go to school and the Albedo effect contributed to the Ice Age as well as the warming...  the "cycle" remember?

And that's my final say on the matter.   I win!

  

Win what? I'm a scientist who worked in private industry all my life, there's no money in climate science for me, only facts and observations. The 95% of scientists is all of them, not just the ones working in government and academia.

I don't know how old you are, that will govern how much global warming and climate change affects you. It does not affect me, I'll be gone.

You are saying I don't care about the evidence. I don't believe in global warming, therefore it does not exist.

Insurance companies are not scientists. They are certainly about the money, that's why premiums are going through the roof to cover the increased risk of storms, bushfires and floods. Obviously, you have not checked out the last decade in Australia. Since when has Russia had to fight forest fires?

You win? You wish.