Investigation Launched Into Airport Runway Incident

[mikeymike100]

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

ATC cannot tell you to land on the "wrong runway"?
You land on the one they tell you to, if you do that then there is no problem

[unless it's closed for some reason]

these guys landed on another one to what they were told to.

You did see the words "wrong runway" were in quotation marks? I used the term as it was in the OP "The Ministry of Transport has launched an investigation into a Thai AirAsia flight that landed on the wrong runway at Don Mueang Airport"

 

I agree that you land on the runway that ATC tell you, which is exactly my point.

The approach control will vector the flight to the appropriate runway, then hand off to the tower. The tower should say you are no 1 to land, or no 2 whatever. When they are no. 1 to land the tower should then say you are cleared to land on 21R or 21L, whichever is "correct" the active runway, the PIC, should then repeat the message, flight FD3141 is cleared to land on 21R or 21L. my point was did approach control vector them to the "correct runway" and did the tower clear them to land on the "correct runway"? Until the tapes are played back we dont know, do we? Did something happen for ATC to change the active runway at the last minute ?Again we dont know?

Edited May 26, 2022 by mikeymike100
spelling

[hotchilli]

16 minutes ago, mikeymike100 said:

Until the tapes are played back we dont know, do we? Did something happen for ATC to change the active runway at the last minute ?Again we dont know?

Approach and Tower work off the same system when they handover... if a "runway" suddenly becomes unserviceable" then it is closed and all aircraft are vectored accordingly, either in VFR or ILS landing.

My money is the PIC and/or 1st officer screwed up.

[mikeymike100]

4 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Approach and Tower work off the same system when they handover... if a "runway" suddenly becomes unserviceable" then it is closed and all aircraft are vectored accordingly, either in VFR or ILS landing.

My money is the PIC and/or 1st officer screwed up.

Approach Control and the Tower are always on different frequencies.  I agree if a runway becomes unserviceable it is closed and both the Tower and Approach Control will be informed, so they can take appropriate action. I would also say you are probably correct that the pilots screwed up, but until the tapes are played we wont know! ATC do make mistakes also. It will be interesting to see, good job no one was hurt.

[ozfarang]

4 hours ago, orchidfan said:

No. The runways are normally called 21 Right or 21 Left......same as radar headings are given as "right heading" or "left heading".

Yes, the runways are marked with the 21R or 21L on the threshold, but by the time you see that at 130 knots you're on it.

As others have pointed out, there are plenty of "measures" to ensure that you are on the correct runway..... the ATIS will mostly nominate the landing runway ( but in the case od DMK this can be changed to suit traffic etc), also the Arrival clearance or STAR will nominate the runway as will the Approach Controller and finally the Tower controller.

Even on a Visual Approach it is normal procedure (SOP) to input and identify the ILS approach for that runway as a secondary cross check.

Finally, the landing clearance issued by the tower controller (SHOULD) will include the runway identifier......"Runway 21 Left, cleared to land"

The only factual post on this thread.

 

All the rest mostly, just ignorant noise

 

[ncc1701d]

4 hours ago, orchidfan said:

No. The runways are normally called 21 Right or 21 Left......same as radar headings are given as "right heading" or "left heading".

Yes, the runways are marked with the 21R or 21L on the threshold, but by the time you see that at 130 knots you're on it.

As others have pointed out, there are plenty of "measures" to ensure that you are on the correct runway..... the ATIS will mostly nominate the landing runway ( but in the case od DMK this can be changed to suit traffic etc), also the Arrival clearance or STAR will nominate the runway as will the Approach Controller and finally the Tower controller.

Even on a Visual Approach it is normal procedure (SOP) to input and identify the ILS approach for that runway as a secondary cross check.

Finally, the landing clearance issued by the tower controller (SHOULD) will include the runway identifier......"Runway 21 Left, cleared to land"

Everything Orchidfan posted is correct. I would add that should an incorrect rwy be put into the Flight management computer and the crew don't pick it up, then ATC should also be monitoring and alert them to incorrect tracking. Ultimately though - it is the pilots responsibility.

 

[mrfill]

20 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

Was it the right airport in the right country ????

Not in the picture. That runway is definitely not at Don Muang

[tgw]

6 minutes ago, mrfill said:

Not in the picture. That runway is definitely not at Don Muang

the runway in the picture is Phuket. 27 is visible.

[cormanr7]

Oh dear, the usual assortment of 'funny' persons here.

ATC conversations are recorded and if the flight/cockpit voice recorders were pulled immediately (which I doubt) it would not be to difficult to find out what was said/done on the flight deck. 

Apart from this, landing on the wrong runway or a taxiway is not a typical Thai problem. One of the most recent examples is the Volaris incident in Mexico City   https://simpleflying.com/mexico-city-airspace-drama-volaris/. .

One particular infamous event occurred in San Francisco when an Air Canada aircraft mistook a taxiway for a runway and nearly collided with four wide-body aircraft waiting for take off  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Flight_759. Pilot fatigue was thought to be a major contributor in this particular event.

 

The fact that the AirAsia aircraft was landing on 21L by itself should have alerted the crew (unless they were told so by ATC) as landings at Don Muang normally take place at 21R. 

[Lucky Bones]

11 hours ago, CANSIAM said:

Alarming…….ATC, Captain and First Officer approach and land on the wrong runway…….

Seems fair to me.

Gotta land somewhere.

Not too much else to worry about today.

[CANSIAM]

How bout some NTSB fellas sent over for an enhanced investigation..........

[Liverpool Lou]

20 hours ago, CANSIAM said:

How bout some NTSB fellas sent over for an enhanced investigation..........

I thought that they were already here, judging by most of the posts!

[Rocking Robert]

On 5/26/2022 at 4:57 AM, ozfarang said:

The only factual post on this thread.

 

All the rest mostly, just ignorant noise

 

Does that include yours

[Captain Monday]

On 5/25/2022 at 7:10 PM, dddave said:

In an article in another publication, the sometimes murky distinction with Thai speakers between spoken "L" & "R" could have been at the center of this incident.  The runways in question both have either L or R in their designation

What? That sounds like a joke not even ridiculous tabloid journalism. Air Traffic Control clearances include standard phraseology of Two One Right/ Two One Left  (or the official phonetic romeo or lima) to avoid such confusion  Pronounciation does not matter if your say Rima, Reft Light or Lomeo! 

 

There have been many many incidences over the years where aircraft landed on the wrong runway, taxiway, and even the wrong airport under visual conditions, 

 

A legitimate accident or incident investigation always uncovers a chain of errors never one mistake or one cause. There are mitigation strategies to avoid communications problems included at all levels of flight operations.

 

Guarantee it had nothing to do with some "no ploplem" nonsense.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Captain Monday