‘America is killing itself’: world reacts with horror and incomprehension to Texas shooting

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I see prejudice against the US here daily, again it's ridiculous because the US is all countries combined. Mass shootings do happen more in the US so that,like I said, is where something has to change, but what can be done besides what I mentioned? Most police forces use AR-15 style weapons, and fully automatic, along with shotguns and handguns. They had enough firepower. It only takes a shot or two from any weapon to stop anyone. Guns will always find their way to about anyone who has the money. A teenager should not own a gun, as I mentioned, and guns in a house should be locked. making safes mandatory isn't that hard. Finally, mental illness is indeed behind all evil. Evil isn't just doing something out of ignorance or by mistake. Evil is intentional, and narcissism is a major influence on power, which is behind a lot of crimes. Wanting to intentionally hurt another human being  besides out of self defense or protection of one's family is not normal behavior.

Stricter gun laws will save lives. Those are the facts not opinions:

 

Mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended in 2004.

 

States with weaker gun laws have higher rates of firearm related homicides and suicides, study finds

 

Common sense gun safety laws bring down gun crime by 40 percent.

 

Instead of bringing up a new generation of kids normalised to their teachers carrying weapons and reinforcing the gun culture from an early age then you've not only gone down a slippery road you've just fallen off the cliff.

 

 

[James105]

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I see prejudice against the US here daily, again it's ridiculous because the US is all countries combined. Mass shootings do happen more in the US so that,like I said, is where something has to change, but what can be done besides what I mentioned? Most police forces use AR-15 style weapons, and fully automatic, along with shotguns and handguns. They had enough firepower. It only takes a shot or two from any weapon to stop anyone. Guns will always find their way to about anyone who has the money. A teenager should not own a gun, as I mentioned, and guns in a house should be locked. making safes mandatory isn't that hard. Finally, mental illness is indeed behind all evil. Evil isn't just doing something out of ignorance or by mistake. Evil is intentional, and narcissism is a major influence on power, which is behind a lot of crimes. Wanting to intentionally hurt another human being  besides out of self defense or protection of one's family is not normal behavior.

I read that the latest nutcase tried to get his sister to buy him a gun back in March.  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uvalde-texas-ramos-sister-guns-b2089185.html

 

Since he was not legally allowed to buy a gun in March this massacre was delayed until such time as he was legally allowed to buy a gun.  Teenagers are a hormonal mess and many have fresh memories of the school bullying and a bad experience of school in their heads.   If America really needs its guns to form its "well regulated militias" to help US States prevent the evil British taking over again then why not just make the minimum age to buy a gun 21?   Maybe this kid would have calmed down by then and this would never have happened.   

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, James105 said:

I read that the latest nutcase tried to get his sister to buy him a gun back in March.  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uvalde-texas-ramos-sister-guns-b2089185.html

 

Since he was not legally allowed to buy a gun in March this massacre was delayed until such time as he was legally allowed to buy a gun.  Teenagers are a hormonal mess and many have fresh memories of the school bullying and a bad experience of school in their heads.   If America really needs its guns to form its "well regulated militias" to help US States prevent the evil British taking over again then why not just make the minimum age to buy a gun 21?   Maybe this kid would have calmed down by then and this would never have happened.   

I don't think the "well regulated militia" is intended to fight the British anymore, the military can do that if needed. Its really to fight a civil war against a democratically elected government.

Edited May 30, 2022 by ozimoron

[James105]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

I don't think the "well regulated militia" is intended to fight the British anymore, the military can do that if needed. Its really to fight a civil war against a democratically elected government.

Sure, that's why I put it in quotes as it is absurd and has not aged well.  It's the part of the second amendment which might as well be written in invisible ink as I imagine most gun owners in America would be horrified at the prospect of being forced to join a "well regulated militia" as a condition of their continued gun ownership.    

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, James105 said:

Not sure why this debate is still going on.   The gun control argument was settled way back in 2012 after the Sandy Hook massacre when Americans decided that it was more okay for little innocent kids in school to be shot and killed by someone with a legally purchased semi automatic rifle than it would be to take away that persons right to legally purchase the aforementioned weapon of destruction.    America has made it abundantly clear that the occasional massacre of 5-10 year olds is okay as long as they get to keep their guns.   

 

It's been 10 years since Sandy Hook and Americans have decided not to vote in politicians who could do something to prevent this.  It's not the NRA or some other bogeyman that is allowing this to happen - it is the democratic will of the American people to allow their innocent kids to get slaughtered on occasion.  

Yes, the left loves the little school kids that get shot, and they want to do all they can to stop the killings, but they never get from the wanting to do something, to outlining exactly what it is they want to do. They play the same tire chin-music after every shooting, but never do anything. 

 

As much as the left cares about the kids (at least the ones they can't stop from being born) getting shot, it is interesting that the left does not seem to give a whit about the tens of thousands of young black men killed each year with hand-guns.

 

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, James105 said:

Sure, that's why I put it in quotes as it is absurd and has not aged well.  It's the part of the second amendment which might as well be written in invisible ink as I imagine most gun owners in America would be horrified at the prospect of being forced to join a "well regulated militia" as a condition of their continued gun ownership.    

The other point that seems to be missed is that the second amendment is an amendment. It can be further amended by a simple super majority of the senate.

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Stricter gun laws will save lives. Those are the facts not opinions:

 

Mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended in 2004.

 

States with weaker gun laws have higher rates of firearm related homicides and suicides, study finds

 

Common sense gun safety laws bring down gun crime by 40 percent.

 

Instead of bringing up a new generation of kids normalised to their teachers carrying weapons and reinforcing the gun culture from an early age then you've not only gone down a slippery road you've just fallen off the cliff.

 

 

So what specific changes in the law are you recommending, and how much of an impact do you think i will have on gun deaths? 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, the left loves the little school kids that get shot, and they want to do all they can to stop the killings, but they never get from the wanting to do something, to outlining exactly what it is they want to do. They play the same tire chin-music after every shooting, but never do anything. 

 

As much as the left cares about the kids (at least the ones they can't stop from being born) getting shot, it is interesting that the left does not seem to give a whit about the tens of thousands of young black men killed each year with hand-guns.

 

 

The house passed a bill already and it's before the senate now. The left know exactly what they want to do. Stop trolling and get informed.

 

https://www.nssf.org/articles/sen-feinstein-proposes-banning-americas-most-popular-rifle-again/

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-action-should-be-taken-on-guns-we-asked-every-senator

Edited May 30, 2022 by ozimoron

[wwest5829]

On 5/26/2022 at 6:03 AM, RichardColeman said:

If the killer had been a white guy, this would be 24/7 on every new station in the USA until the US mid-terms.

Hmm, I have been seeing it just so ... Your point?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

So what specific changes in the law are you recommending, and how much of an impact do you think i will have on gun deaths? 

Read the links, its all there. Amazing that I provide the evidence and you prefer to ignore it.

[wwest5829]

24 minutes ago, James105 said:

Not sure why this debate is still going on.   The gun control argument was settled way back in 2012 after the Sandy Hook massacre when Americans decided that it was more okay for little innocent kids in school to be shot and killed by someone with a legally purchased semi automatic rifle than it would be to take away that persons right to legally purchase the aforementioned weapon of destruction.    America has made it abundantly clear that the occasional massacre of 5-10 year olds is okay as long as they get to keep their guns.   

 

It's been 10 years since Sandy Hook and Americans have decided not to vote in politicians who could do something to prevent this.  It's not the NRA or some other bogeyman that is allowing this to happen - it is the democratic will of the American people to allow their innocent kids to get slaughtered on occasion.  

Sadly, I agree and further state, as an American I am increasingly alienated from my country. What I hold as American values is increasingly at opposition to the reality I see as the USA regresses into an entity I can neither recognize nor support.

[James105]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So what specific changes in the law are you recommending, and how much of an impact do you think i will have on gun deaths? 

This specific nutcase wanted to buy a gun and presumably carry out this massacre back in March but was not legally allowed to so could not obtain one:  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uvalde-texas-ramos-sister-guns-b2089185.html.   The massacre did not happen until he could "legally" obtain his mass murdering weapon of choice.   

 

So if (lets say) the minimum age was 21 to buy a gun then that would be 19 kids and 2 adults alive today.   So there is that I suppose.  

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, wwest5829 said:

Sadly, I agree and further state, as an American I am increasingly alienated from my country. What I hold as American values is increasingly at opposition to the reality I see as the USA regresses into an entity I can neither recognize nor support.

Don't be, its not the majority of Americans fault, its a culture that has been slowly building for a long time and driven by the gun lobby. From what I've read the majority of Americans want stricter gun controls but its the politicians and the powerful NRA and its backing constantly blocking it.

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The house passed a bill already and it's before the senate now. The left know exactly what they want to do. Stop trolling and get informed.

 

https://www.nssf.org/articles/sen-feinstein-proposes-banning-americas-most-popular-rifle-again/

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-action-should-be-taken-on-guns-we-asked-every-senator

So why is Chuck Schumer refusing to bring it to the floor? 

 

Still, the legislation does nothing to address the tens of thousands of black men killed every year, does it?

 

Try again. 

[wwest5829]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The house passed a bill already and it's before the senate now. The left know exactly what they want to do. Stop trolling and get informed.

 

https://www.nssf.org/articles/sen-feinstein-proposes-banning-americas-most-popular-rifle-again/

Unless American voters elect a substantial Democrat majority, then they do not have enough votes to deal with the Republicans blocking progressive efforts. We are stuck with inaction which continues to feed the justified frustration/anger within the working middle class. This is a planned political effort by the Republicans reliant upon this pent up rage as they (the Republicans are not and have not put forward any legislation to deal with ... this or a litany of other issues ... I stand corrected, they have passed state level laws criminalizing abortion.

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, James105 said:

This specific nutcase wanted to buy a gun and presumably carry out this massacre back in March but was not legally allowed to so could not obtain one:  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uvalde-texas-ramos-sister-guns-b2089185.html.   The massacre did not happen until he could "legally" obtain his mass murdering weapon of choice.   

 

So if (lets say) the minimum age was 21 to buy a gun then that would be 19 kids and 2 adults alive today.   So there is that I suppose.  

Okay, so change the minimum age to 21 and we're good?

 

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

So why is Chuck Schumer refusing to bring it to the floor? 

 

Still, the legislation does nothing to address the tens of thousands of black men killed every year, does it?

 

Try again. 

Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) told colleagues on the Senate floor Wednesday that he will not immediately bring gun control measures to the floor in the wake of two mass shootings in Buffalo and Uvalde, Texas, because he doesn’t expect them to muster enough Republican votes to pass.  

Instead, the Democratic leader said he will wait for Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) and other members of his caucus to try to negotiate a bipartisan compromise with Republicans on a measure that has a better chance of securing 60 votes to overcome a filibuster.  

 

https://thehill.com/news/3501101-schumer-tells-colleagues-not-to-expect-a-gun-control-vote-anytime-soon/

 

Your point about black killings is off topic here which is about mass shootings. Start another topic to discuss that.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Unless American voters elect a substantial Democrat majority, then they do not have enough votes to deal with the Republicans blocking progressive efforts. We are stuck with inaction which continues to feed the justified frustration/anger within the working middle class. This is a planned political effort by the Republicans reliant upon this pent up rage as they (the Republicans are not and have not put forward any legislation to deal with ... this or a litany of other issues ... I stand corrected, they have passed state level laws criminalizing abortion.

Do democrats not have a majority in the Senate with the VP?

 

I think Chuck wants to keep it going until the election... 

[Bkk Brian]

40 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) told colleagues on the Senate floor Wednesday that he will not immediately bring gun control measures to the floor in the wake of two mass shootings in Buffalo and Uvalde, Texas, because he doesn’t expect them to muster enough Republican votes to pass.  

Instead, the Democratic leader said he will wait for Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) and other members of his caucus to try to negotiate a bipartisan compromise with Republicans on a measure that has a better chance of securing 60 votes to overcome a filibuster.  

 

https://thehill.com/news/3501101-schumer-tells-colleagues-not-to-expect-a-gun-control-vote-anytime-soon/

 

Your point about black killings is off topic here which is about mass shootings. Start another topic to discuss that.

and some states are not waiting, they are taking the common sense approach and acting now:

 

In New Jersey, Gov. Phil Murphy urged lawmakers to advance firearms safety measures, including raising the age to 21 for purchases of long guns and exposing gun makers to civil lawsuits.

 

In New York — where an 18-year-old in Buffalo was charged two weeks ago with committing a racist mass shooting — Gov. Kathy Hochul said she would seek to ban people under 21 from purchasing AR-15-style rifles.

 

And in California — where a politically motivated mass shooting erupted at a luncheon of older churchgoers this month — legislative leaders and Gov. Gavin Newsom fast-tracked tougher controls on firearms.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1261089-states-rush-toward-new-gun-restrictions-as-congress-remains-gridlocked/#comment-17387766

 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Your point about black killings is off topic here which is about mass shootings. Start another topic to discuss that.

 

Of course it is. That assault rifles only account for a fraction of gun deaths does not fit the left's agenda, sorry. 

 

What not focus on the enforcing the laws we already have, not enough of a vote-getter?

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do democrats not have a majority in the Senate with the VP?

 

I think Chuck wants to keep it going until the election... 

I think you already know and it was stated in the link I provided that a simple majority is not enough to pass an amendment to the constitution. As far as keeping it going there is political capital in that as the recalcitrant Republicans seem to be shooting themselves in the foot over gun control and abortion.

[James105]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Okay, so change the minimum age to 21 and we're good?

 

 

Not good no, but not quite as absurd as the current situation is.  

 

What do you think?  Do you think those 19 kids and 2 adults would be dead today if that nutcase could not "legally" obtain his semi automatic rifle?  

[ozimoron]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

 

Of course it is. That assault rifles only account for a fraction of gun deaths does not fit the left's agenda, sorry. 

 

What not focus on the enforcing the laws we already have, not enough of a vote-getter?

The AR 15 features in all of the worst mass killings. It is 25% of all mass shootings. Links previously supplied.

 

The laws the US currently has are a joke.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

The AR 15 features in all of the worst mass killings. It is 25% of all mass shootings. Links previously supplied.

 

The laws the US currently has are a joke.

Of course it is. But again,  assault rifles R 15 only account for a small fraction of gun deaths does, does it?

 

Why do we only care about the comparatively tine number of people killed by assault rifles, and not about the tens of thousands killed by other firearms?

 

Enforcing existing laws would save a lot more lives than adding a few more useless laws to the books that only seem to punish the law-abiding poor and middle class. 

[fredwiggy]

28 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Are there not Americans here arguing in favor of gun control? I think you should tone down the nationalism and team rhetoric. I think you are being a bit over sensitive. Criticism is not knee jerk prejudice. Note the strong arguments by brits against the government in the Boris Johnson thread.

 

You are just repeating points made in your past post. Don't double post, make new points.

I just stated what are common sense proposals to help with this problem. People everywhere are arguing against gun control but few don't know what to do about it. Weak gun laws in some states is part of the problem. Posting links with others opinions is the same as what happens here. facts speak for themselves, and those facts are based on what happened in that particular state, with it's population, it's rate of poverty (reason for a lot of crimes), at that particular time period, and it may or may not work in another place. You can't compare one state to another. Some have huge populations, some have small populations, the more people, the more crime, some are mostly country, where hunting is a way of life, as well as gun ownership.  Of course this is a lot political, hence the different laws in each state regarding everything, and money is involved in everything so things change because of it. Some are still saying assault weapon bans. These aren't assault weapons. They are regular guns with higher capacity clips. The reason so many are shot is because of the fact that the clips hold more rounds, making it easier. Ban large capacity clips immediately, but how do you remove those already sold? Ask the owners to surrender them? Safeguarding the guns would help in a major way. If there's no access, no one besides the owner can get at them. I'm all for protecting children, and everyone else for that matter, and you can't please everyone, so you have, especially as a politician, to please as many as you can, and protect the people, and therein lies the problem. Democrats and Republicans can't agree on most anything, and guns are billions of dollars of revenue, as is pharmaceutical companies, who's drugs kill thousands daily, so what can you do? Guns are necessary, and so is protecting your family. The police can't be everywhere at all times, even if they want to, so that leaves the regular Joe to protect his family or students. The things I suggested are the best that can happen right now. There are people everywhere trying to figure out what to do. I am not prejudiced against any race or country. And please don't tell others what to do here. If you don't want to read the posts, you don't have to. I made points that you are rebutting, with only other's opinions to back you up. What works here might not work there, and vice versa. I don't see, yet, anything that would work everywhere besides what has already been mentioned.

[spidermike007]

Every time I go back to visit, I barely recognize the place anymore. America has been on the decline for decades now. Not in terms of GDP, but by nearly every other measurement or standard. And now, the cost of living is soaring out of control. A very low quality of life, and way too many unhinged maniacs, and far too few politicians with any sort of moral conviction. Most are bought and paid for by toxic lobbyists. The US is just as corrupt as Thailand. The difference there, is the corruption is legal and encouraged. 

 

It is very disheartening. Nothing is being done about the killings. The dems are cowed by the progressives, and the Republicans lack any sort of moral compass, and are owned by the NRA, and the orange one, and are stuck in an 18th century mindset. We deserve our guns! We need our guns! You can't take away our guns! Nothing wrong with having a few guns in the house. But, there is something very, very wrong, when an insane 18 year old can easily buy assault rifles and 350 rounds of ammunition and walk right into a school and take out more people than have been mass murdered in many nations combined for decades, in one day. And there is something infinitely more wrong with America when nobody has to guts to do anything about it. 

 

The US is a very sick, demented, twisted, confused, and morally bankrupt culture. It is a nation in rapid decline. It is not even a pale shadow of what it used to be. I am infinitely disappointed in country. They could do so much better. 

 

According to the Gun Violence Archive, a nonprofit that tracks shootings in the US, there have been 214 mass shootings in 2022 alone.

The United States has far more lax firearm laws and policies compared to other countries — the federal right to own a firearm is even baked into the United States' constitution via the Second Amendment. 

 

https://www.insider.com/number-of-mass-shootingsin-america-this-year-2022-5

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, James105 said:

Not good no, but not quite as absurd as the current situation is.  

 

What do you think?  Do you think those 19 kids and 2 adults would be dead today if that nutcase could not "legally" obtain his semi automatic rifle?  

I think that those people are dead is a tragedy.

 

Many more kids are killed by teenaged drivers than by mass shootings, why not raise the age of driving to 21? 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Every time I go back to visit, I barely recognize the place anymore. America has been on the decline for decades now. Not in terms of GDP, but by nearly every other measurement or standard. And now, the cost of living is soaring out of control. A very low quality of life, and way too many unhinged maniacs, and far too few politicians with any sort of moral conviction. Most are bought and paid for by toxic lobbyists. The US is just as corrupt as Thailand. The difference there, is the corruption is legal and encouraged. 

 

It is very disheartening. Nothing is being done about the killings. The dems are cowed by the progressives, and the Republicans lack any sort of moral compass, and are owned by the NRA, and the orange one, and are stuck in an 18th century mindset. We deserve our guns! We need our guns! You can't take away our guns! Nothing wrong with having a few guns in the house. But, there is something very, very wrong, when an insane 18 year old can easily buy assault rifles and 350 rounds of ammunition and walk right into a school and take out more people than have been mass murdered in many nations combined for decades, in one day. And there is something infinitely more wrong with America when nobody has to guts to do anything about it. 

 

The US is a very sick, demented, twisted, confused, and morally bankrupt culture. It is a nation in rapid decline. It is not even a pale shadow of what it used to be. I am infinitely disappointed in country. They could do so much better. 

 

According to the Gun Violence Archive, a nonprofit that tracks shootings in the US, there have been 214 mass shootings in 2022 alone.

The United States has far more lax firearm laws and policies compared to other countries — the federal right to own a firearm is even baked into the United States' constitution via the Second Amendment. 

 

https://www.insider.com/number-of-mass-shootingsin-america-this-year-2022-5

When I was sixteen, most every kid I knew had a rife. We had rifle-team in high school, and we used hallways as practice rangers by piling sand-bags up at one end. 

 

Bus yeah, the problem has to be the guns. 

[Will B Good]

On 5/26/2022 at 8:40 AM, Sydebolle said:

Tell those gun-loving pr1cks to carry on the good work. It was, is and remains irresponsible to allow private citizen the ownership of guns without proven training by professionals. 

Tell those gun-loving pr1cks to carry on the good work. It was, is and remains irresponsible to allow private citizen the ownership of guns without proven training by professionals. 

[JCauto]

On 5/28/2022 at 10:13 PM, Atlantis said:

Whatever toxic echo-chamber you get your news from, I suggest you break out of it pronto.

Find one, just one right?

“Armed female bystander kills man firing at party in West Virginia”

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61615236

 

Try the left-leaning BBC for an example. Try and find it on MSNBC, CNN, ABC News. Is it even on Foxnews main page yet? Wasn’t to be found a few hours ago.

 

Save your apology, just learn to control yourself.

Apologize for what? Your lack of reading comprehension? My point was that the media WOULD broadcast any incident of a "good guy (or gal) with a gun" and the point of the liar KhunLA was a complete fabrication that was the exact opposite of the truth. I challenged him to find a single incident where this hadn't been reported by the media.