Glued watertaps

[peterfranks]

I have to replace some of those small taps below the sinks, as they are poor quality and are deteriorating. I've had 2 crack spontaneously, so I don't want to risk the house be full of water one morning.

 

Now the thing is that the idiot who installed them glued them in. I recall him saying that it was a leakproof way of installing.

 

So he put some water pipe glue around the Teflon tape before screwing them in the pipe.

 

Sure it's leakproof, and not removable proof as well.

 

I tried to unscrew a few, but there is not 1 mm movement. Although I have the tools to remove if they break, I want to avoid it.

 

Any suggestions on how to get them out, or at least decrease the chance of them breaking off?

[NE1]

Do you have a hair dryer or a hot air gun.

The glue needs heat to disbond .

[carlyai]

If the tap supplies both hot and cold water, open up the hot water only for a while heating the joint and try undoing the tap with the wrench again. Somehow try and make the joint hot while trying to remove the tap.

Sorry that's all I can think of. Maybe better saying 'OK the tap is going to break and what's the easiest way I can get it out and replace it'.

[EricTh]

I find that Thai technicians really have poor workmanship. They just want do it quick and get the money.

 

I have had many problems from poor Thai workmanship.

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, peterfranks said:

have to replace some of those small taps below the sinks, as they are poor quality and are deteriorating. I've had 2 crack spontaneously, so I don't want to risk the house be full of water one morning.

As mentioned if you can get the pipes hot enough the glue will not hold.

BUT the temperature needed is vey close to the temperature at which the pipes soften enough to deform.

 

I have had good success with reused junctions where I was able to cut the pipe and junction and strip the pipe out on my workbench.

 

your situation is very different so pictures will help. It maybe that you can have the pipe full of water so lowering the deformation risk.

[KIngsofisaan]

Cut them off and start off the right way.

 

I have PVC out in the hot sun, over 100F all summer and the glue never unbounds. Don't waste your time.

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

Cut them off and start off the right way.

 

I have PVC out in the hot sun, over 100F all summer and the glue never unbounds. Don't waste your time.

While cutting off may well be the answer 100F is no where near hot enough for the glue to un-bond 100C may not be hot enough though the pressure rating will be drastically reduced. But get the fittings hot enough and they will come apart, though with a glued thread they may not be reusable.

 

FWIW books seldom have PVC covers ???? 

Edited July 8, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[peterfranks]

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

As mentioned if you can get the pipes hot enough the glue will not hold.

BUT the temperature needed is vey close to the temperature at which the pipes soften enough to deform.

 

I have had good success with reused junctions where I was able to cut the pipe and junction and strip the pipe out on my workbench.

 

your situation is very different so pictures will help. It maybe that you can have the pipe full of water so lowering the deformation risk.

Cutting of is no option. It are the taps under bathroom sinks, and they are inside tiled walls

[carlyai]

7 hours ago, peterfranks said:

Cutting of is no option. It are the taps under bathroom sinks, and they are inside tiled walls

peterfranks it's a horrible job but doable. As sometimewoodworker said, a picture would help.

I had a few leaks with pipes inside the cavity wall inside kitchen copboards after my house build plumbers finished. 

Just take the cupboard doors and hinges completely off, get some good lighting, a fan (hot under the sink inside a cupboard), a tool to scrape out the grout and a big drill. You'll probably break the tiles ....be patient and saying 'f***' a lot  and blaming the Mrs helps. ????

[peterfranks]

I'm in a lot of pain today.

 

The tap under the kitchen sink started leaking, because of the corrosion.

 

Tried to remove it, but of course it broke.

 

I have the extractors, but this cause it to break right at the tile.

 

Now even with extractor it won't move a mm.

 

This is one I have installed myself just a few years ago, and I'm sure I didn't use glue on the Teflon tape.

 

Any other suggestions?

[peterfranks]

I have ordered a heat gun from Lazada, and have this kind of pipe extractors.

 

Should I insert the extractor as far as possible, then heat up the whole thing, or should I heat up before inserting the extractor.

 

As I said, the tap broke off at the tile, and the pipe is also flush with the tile.

 

I can't see if it has plastic or copper thread.

 

[peterfranks]

So while I'm waiting for the heat gun I will also remove the tap in the guest toilet, but I expect the same result as in the kitchen.

So if that is the case, I plan to remove that sink, and attempt to seal the hole.

 

Any ideas on how to permanently seal a pipe with still a part of the tap inside?

[carlyai]

6 hours ago, peterfranks said:

So while I'm waiting for the heat gun I will also remove the tap in the guest toilet, but I expect the same result as in the kitchen.

So if that is the case, I plan to remove that sink, and attempt to seal the hole.

 

Any ideas on how to permanently seal a pipe with still a part of the tap inside?

peterfranks you still never posted some pictures. ????

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, peterfranks said:

I have ordered a heat gun from Lazada, and have this kind of pipe extractors.

 

Should I insert the extractor as far as possible, then heat up the whole thing, or should I heat up before inserting the extractor.

 

I can't see if it has plastic or copper thread.

 

The answers to your question are maybe, yes or no.

 

Also that extractor is almost exactly the wrong thing to use depending on the bit that is still stuck. 
 

As has been repeated without pictures the correct method is difficult to decide.

 

If the 2 parts are PVC I can guarantee that your extractor together with heat will not work or will distort the outer part enough that it is useless. There is no point in detailing the different correct methods without seeing the problem. Since you can post pictures, take some and post them.

 

that extractor is designed for metal threaded parts like steel pipe. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[bbko]

Agree with other asking for a few pictures to give the best advice.

[stratocaster]

Better to use this style of extractor.

 

[peterfranks]

I really don't understand what more you can see from a picture, other than what I have described, but here you go.

 

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If the 2 parts are PVC I can guarantee that your extractor together with heat will not work or will distort the outer part enough that it is useless.

What you mean with the 2 parts being PVC? Obviously the tab is some kind of <deleted> metal, screwed into blue pipe, but I don't know if the thread in the blue pipe is brass or PVC.

 

Another extractor I have is this one, should that be a better option?

 

 

The pictures is the tap under the kitchen sink, but I will have others that will look identical, and which I may want to seal off.

 

Is there a way to seal a hole like in the picture below, with still part of the tap inside?

 

[bendejo]

I don't know if this product is sold interntionally:  WD40

If available it's at least worth a try.  It has a reputation for miracles.  Also works for removing unremovable glue.

https://www.instagram.com/wd40thailand/

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

57 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

What you mean with the 2 parts being PVC? Obviously the tab is some kind of <deleted> metal, screwed into blue pipe, but I don't know if the thread in the blue pipe is brass or PVC.

What I and others mean is that there are a verity of tap and screw threaded pipe fittings.

Until now there has been no way to tell what you have, so no it was not at all obvious that the 2 parts were not PVC.
 

It is still not obvious if the outlet part has a metal insert (they are usually brass) or if it is a completely PVC fitting, some judicious application of sandpaper is quite likely be able to determine that.

 

The left handed thread easy out is quite likely to be a good part of the solution together with the heat gun.
 

Since you have already found that the section of the tap that broke off it is clear that the pot metal is fragile once it is clear if there is a metal insert in the pipe or not then the method that has a chance of success can be suggested. This may involve acetone and heat but a mask with an organic gas filter will be helpful, these are widely available and not expensive.

 

57 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

Is there a way to seal a hole like in the picture below, with still part of the tap inside?

Not with any chance of success.

 

your best option, if you can get the bits out is to replace the cheap taps with good ones

Edited July 14, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[sometimewoodworker]

1 minute ago, bendejo said:

I don't know if this product is sold interntionally:  WD40

If available it's at least worth a try.  It has a reputation for miracles.  Also works for removing unremovable glue.

https://www.instagram.com/wd40thailand/

Wrong product for the job until the thread is moving.

[peterfranks]

The thread is plastic

[bbko]

Looking at the photo, if that were under my sink, I'd remove the surrounding grout, smash/remove a few tiles (looks easy enough to find a matching replacement), cut off the defective fitting and install a brand new one the proper way.

[peterfranks]

21 minutes ago, bbko said:

Looking at the photo, if that were under my sink, I'd remove the surrounding grout, smash/remove a few tiles (looks easy enough to find a matching replacement), cut off the defective fitting and install a brand new one the proper way.

That is also my idea, though doing a job like that while laying on your back under the sink is not really handy.

 

Also destroying a wall I'm good at, rebuilding it is another thing, that why I would like to find someone who can do it for me.

 

I had a similar issue in a bathroom a few years ago, and asked a few plumbers, who quoted between 4 and 6000 baht.

 

The job took 2.5 hours to complete, by a labourer who is not available at the moment

[sometimewoodworker]

6 hours ago, peterfranks said:

The thread is plastic

In that case the way I would approach the problem is to, using the reverse thread eazy-out, first try adding acetone around the threads using something like a pipette 

plastic if the acetone doesn’t eat it or 

glass if it does.

the danger there is that acetone vapour is not exactly safe to breath 

https://www.merckmillipore.com/Web-GB-Site/en_US/-/GBP/ShowDocument-File?ProductSKU=MDA_CHEM-100013&DocumentType=MSD&DocumentId=100013_SDS_GB_EN.PDF&DocumentUID=283119&Language=EN&Country=GB&Origin=null

 

so a respirator with an organic vapour cartridge is advised 

 

If/when that doesn’t work then use your heat gun on the easy-out to transfer heat directly to the tap threads, being careful not to get it too hot.

 

If/when that doesn’t work then try adding acetone as well. But respirator with an organic vapour cartridge along with eye protection is compulsory with hot acetone.

 

respirators with an organic vapour cartridge are available in every big supply store, acetone is available in all pharmacies and probably  pipettes as well  

Edited July 14, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[peterfranks]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

In that case the way I would approach the problem is to, using the reverse thread eazy-out, first try adding acetone around the threads using something like a pipette 

May I ask why you suggest acetone, since the tap wasn't glued in, since I installed this one myself only a few years ago?

 

Will any of the methods you suggest preserve the plastic thread?

 

What would be an estimated time that I should use a 2000 watt heat gun?

[kwonitoy]

I had the exact same problem with a similar setup under my sink in the master bathroom.

I was trying to clean the threads out as your trying to, and wound up twisting the fitting and breaking it inside the wall itself.

 

Bite the bullet, get a guy in to dismantle the wall and redo the plumbing that you can't get at.

You probably cannot fix this from the outside.

Cost me 4,000 baht and zero stress as it got done while I was at work.

[sometimewoodworker]

10 hours ago, peterfranks said:

May I ask why you suggest acetone, since the tap wasn't glued in, since I installed this one myself only a few years ago?

 

Will any of the methods you suggest preserve the plastic thread?

 

What would be an estimated time that I should use a 2000 watt heat gun?

The threads are stuck. Acetone is a solvent for PVC. It will also act as an extremely short term lubricant. 
 

The preservation of threads is totally dependent on the amount of force needed to remove the stuck metal, it is quite possible that the threads are preserved.

 

as to heat. Make a few experimental joints (almost any kind will do) heat them up, you will soon find out the temperature at which you get plastic deformation, 

 

Also since both the heat level and air flow are adjustable on all decent hot air guns your question is virtually impossible to answer without being there.

 

Also it is really useful to provide all the possibly relevant information early rather than dripping it out as the dialogue goes on.

Edited July 14, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[peterfranks]

Got a guy in who was recommended by a friend.

 

He looked at it, got the tab out with a saw blade. He charged 500 baht, so I let him do all the other taps in the house at the same time.

 

Still working on them.

[peterfranks]

Whole house done now with SS304 taps.

 

I had a bunch of them done already a few years ago, but was wary about those not moving.

 

So the guy extracted the kitchen tap, then he did 10 more, of which he had to extract several by sawing them out.

 

Fixed a few other issues with drains etc as well.

 

Charged 2500 baht total, which I was more than happy to pay.

[carlyai]

10 hours ago, peterfranks said:

Whole house done now with SS304 taps.

 

I had a bunch of them done already a few years ago, but was wary about those not moving.

 

So the guy extracted the kitchen tap, then he did 10 more, of which he had to extract several by sawing them out.

 

Fixed a few other issues with drains etc as well.

 

Charged 2500 baht total, which I was more than happy to pay.

That's great to get that jib done.

When you say he sawed the tap out, do you mean with an angle grinder?