LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[K2938]

6 hours ago, stat said:

How and if that could change anything regarding LTR WP is beyond me.

Nobody knows, but since this would be such a fundamental change with the actual tax law required to be modified one might be inclined to expect that this would also kill the LTR remittance tax exemption.  And then of course would be highly useful for the tax authorities that LTR visa holders have already disclosed all their income in their LTR application and probably disclosed so with a focus on maximising and not minising their income.  We will see.

Edited June 5 by K2938

[Ben Zioner]

7 hours ago, oldcpu said:

Also, it makes ZERO reference to the LTR visa, so is it even applicable here? 

The problem is that it would make the paragraph  of RD743  on the remittance of foreign income irrelevant. Remittance won't be taxed anymore, earning will. Having to rephrase RD 743 may well lead to unpleasant changes.

[oldcpu]

Deleted - posted to soon in error

Edited June 5 by oldcpu

[oldcpu]

 

47 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

The problem is that it would make the paragraph  of RD743  on the remittance of foreign income irrelevant. Remittance won't be taxed anymore, earning will. Having to rephrase RD 743 may well lead to unpleasant changes.

 

Does it not thou, still get back to the issue that a tax return for one's income,  is always submitted for income from the previous year.  One does not submit a tax return in the same year for the income being earned.

 

I don't speak Thai, but the draft translation I saw for RD743 stated (for LTR_WP) :

 

"the Revenue Code shall be exempted for a foreigner categorised as Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-from-Thailand Professional who is granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law for assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and
brought into Thailand."

 

Note the translation states 'income'.

 

Nominally, when one is reporting on a tax return, it is for assessable income ... not savings ... and it is always income from the previous year, which, since tax returns are done annually, would be the very earliest in which one could submit a tax return.  It is always the previous year.

 

So I note your point, but its not so clear to me. 

 

Also this is just speculation based on a rather, shall I say, shoddy written Bangkok Post article.  My suspicion is there is no issue here for LTR visa holders noted, but one needs to make their own judgement call on this as time goes by and various information is presented.

Edited June 5 by oldcpu

[frankstraube]

14 hours ago, stat said:

Thank you for your reply. However I Jim Gant stated only 1 year was needed in his case for LTR WP. In my case a tax statement does not show the majority of my income anyway as it is taxed at source by the bank.

Thanks to PiB also showing that only one year of proof seems to be enough as proof of income.

I applied two days ago...and made screen captures of the whole process : they are asking for the tax returns of the past 2 years.

But maybe one year only and some bank statements for the current year could be ok, who knows ? It probably depends a lot on the screening officer.

[gravity101]

1 hour ago, frankstraube said:

I applied two days ago...and made screen captures of the whole process : they are asking for the tax returns of the past 2 years.

But maybe one year only and some bank statements for the current year could be ok, who knows ? It probably depends a lot on the screening officer.

Any idea if you don't have any recent tax returns from any jurisdiction? I feel like applying will set myself up for tax evasion because of not doing tax returns in Thailand for the last 10 years. I qualify for WP category I think apart from the tax return evidence. Any Ideas? Does it have to be a Tax return? I'll go out on a limb here and say many 'pensioners' who'd like to migrate from a retirement visa to LTR WP visa because of the upcoming tax changes will be in the same boat. Sorry If I missed the answer in this massive thread.

[1tent42]

1 hour ago, frankstraube said:

I applied two days ago...and made screen captures of the whole process : they are asking for the tax returns of the past 2 years.

But maybe one year only and some bank statements for the current year could be ok, who knows ? It probably depends a lot on the screening officer.

 

I applied a couple of months ago and only submitted last year's tax returns.  My passive income last year didn't even meet the requirements. I did submit a pension certificate showing that I meet the requirements and they accepted that.  I was approved with no issues.

[Thailand J]

with a LTR-WP visa is my same year income transferred into Thailand taxable? In reach of clarity I went to re read section 41 of Revenue Code . It appears that " previous tax year" actually means the tax year being reported. As we are reporting 2024 tax in 2025, " previous tax year" means 2024 tax year. This fact is clear in Paragraph 1,  and the same term shall mean the same in Paragraph 2. Can we assume it meant the same in RD 743? I don't know. I would rather err on the safe side by only transferring old income for the time being.

 

 

Edited June 6 by Thailand J

[Misty]

9 hours ago, frankstraube said:

It probably depends a lot on the screening officer.

 

Normal IOs seem to have discretion to interpret rules and to accept documentation or grant visas based on their own individual whim.  But from my experience the LTR unit/BoI does not - there are clear rules/guidelines and standards that they adhere to. 

[Dakhar]

Has anyone have the same situation as mine?

 

USA citizen

qualifies for LTR (insurance/income/age etc)

 

Except for one issue:

 

I am a LLC member, income is considered "distributions" not "dividends."

 

Is this grounds for disqualification?

 

My tax forms state my distributions are not passive.

[oldcpu]

On 5/25/2024 at 9:12 PM, K2938 said:

The BOI solely looks at income, not assets.  So if you were a tech billionaire with stock worth billions, but without any current income, you would not make it.  From an economic point of view this is of course not very sensible, but these are the rules.  Period.
 

 

This is IMHO true - one must have their finances structured in the way BoI want - but for those with the wealth,  I do not believe it says the entire picture.

 

If one was a tech billionaire worth billions, it stands to reason that some relatively small amount of those billions could be liquidated, and then structured in a way to provide the regular income in a form that met the BoI requirements.  Quite possibly there would be a tax impact for the 'relatively small' (by billionaire standards) liquidation of stock, but still possibly doable.

 

Sadly I am neither a tech billionaire nor tech millionaire, ... but still I note in my case,  my health insurance from Europe is 'unlimited' but that was not acceptable to BoI ( I did not know that getting a letter from the insurance company with a specific $ number of coverage (exceeding the BoI requirement) could be used) so instead I went the $100k US$ self health insurance route.

 

I had the prerequisite >$100K US$ equivalent in an account in Thailand (that could be used for self health insurance), but I had plans for that money, so I did not want to use it for self health insurance to satisfy BoI.

 

So instead I tried pointing to different accounts overseas which had the amount, but because I could trade stocks in those accounts, they each were rejected.  In the end, I came to the conclusion I was being too stubborn, I then used my Thai account for the prerequisite >$100k for self health insurance, and I then restructured the overseas money I had, in order to follow though with I had originally planned to use the money in Thailand for.  OK - not ideal - but doable.

 

So if one has the money, often a little restructuring will enable one to set up their finances to meet the BoI requirements.

 

Yes - I would agree it would be nicer if such was not necessary - but likely for those with the money, there is a way forward, and I doubt that tech billionaires would not be able to find a way to do a small amount of restructuring.

 

Edited June 7 by oldcpu

[Pib]

4 hours ago, Dakhar said:

Has anyone have the same situation as mine?

 

USA citizen

qualifies for LTR (insurance/income/age etc)

 

Except for one issue:

 

I am a LLC member, income is considered "distributions" not "dividends."

 

Is this grounds for disqualification?

 

My tax forms state my distributions are not passive.

 

For a LTR Pensioner visa I expect it would be considered unearned/passive income which is fine; it just can not be earned income such as salary/wages.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7 by Pib

[Dakhar]

9 hours ago, Pib said:

 

For a LTR Pensioner visa I expect it would be considered unearned/passive income which is fine; it just can not be earned income such as salary/wages.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply, unfortunately, my application was denied due to the LLC "distributions" being considered by the BOI as being non-passive.

 

I guess from now on, I get the privilege of dealing with accountants & hoping the DTA will cover me.

 

Edited June 7 by Dakhar

[Pib]

Although as you noted above that LLC distributions can be classified as  "ordinary, passive, or other income" it appears BOI has decided your particular LLC distributions fall in the ordinary/salary income bucket.   Guess it all depends on the details of the LLC distribution since  there are different types of LLC distributions.  

 

You might want to see if you can find any IRS language/rules that classify your particular LLC distributions as passive income and then go back to BOI with a memo explaining such and ask for reconsideration.

 

 

https://carta.com/learn/startups/private-companies/llc/distributions/

 

Edited June 8 by Pib

[HerewardtheWake]

"---folks in the BOI are just "weeding" out anything that would cause their bosses to have to figure whether or not some document or letter was valid

documentation for the qualifications.  Too much explanation could cause even more problems.  Documentation needs to be clear and fits with their expectations.  Good luck."

 

This excerpt from Prenock's message elsewhere in this string succinctly states the way BoI  officials operate. The bosses who approve the applications have a set of criteria they stick to. Permutations of the required documents and variations of different kinds impose additional work of evaluations and decisions. They do not like that. For example, they understand the American 1040's include all income sources and are very straight forward in terms of gross taxable income and taxes, thereby indicating clearly the net income. They may have similar criteria for other countries.  

 

There is also a matter of personnel dynamics in BoI. The officials one interfaces in the office are not the ones who make the final approvals, but are mere intermediaries. I found this out when I tried to get a statement next to my LTR visa stamp that I am exempted from health insurance because of the $100,000 deposit in an account. ( I felt I needed this because Immigration often ask me for health insurance proof when I arrive in Phuket). The BoI official I met was very empathetic, but after going back and forth to meet his boss four times, finally came back with a firm statement that no such statement can or need to be written because: 1) Immigration is not supposed to ask for health insurance for an LTR, and 2) the LTR regulations specify that the 100,000 deposit is sufficient in lieu of health insurance.

[Dakhar]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

Although as you noted above that LLC distributions can be classified as  "ordinary, passive, or other income" it appears BOI has decided your particular LLC distributions fall in the ordinary/salary income bucket.   Guess it all depends on the details of the LLC distribution since  there are different types of LLC distributions.  

 

You might want to see if you can find any IRS language/rules that classify your particular LLC distributions as passive income and then go back to BOI with a memo explaining such and ask for reconsideration.

 

 

https://carta.com/learn/startups/private-companies/llc/distributions/

 

 

The LLC is a 50/50 split partnership. My tax forms unfortunately categorized my income as non-passive on Form E.

 

Due to that, I was denied. It is all rather annoying as it seems an LLC is really an enigma.

 

Good luck

[oldcpu]

I note a big change in the BoI web page on the statistics for the LTR Visa for 31-May-2024. 

 

Instead of reporting "Statistics of LTR Visa Qualifications - Endorsement Applies for each Category" they are now reporting "Statistics of LTR Visa - Qualifications Approve".

 

What does that mean precisely?  I don't know.  Is an error in the BoI web page? or has the baseline changed in how they are reporting LTR visa statistics? 

 

As a result, I note there is a MASSIVE monthly reduction in the numbers for LTR Visa 'total applications' in all category per the current page - presumably due to the baseline (as to how this is reported) has changed, or maybe they just made a mistake.

 

Possibly I missed something already reported on this forum?

Edited June 13 by oldcpu

[Pib]

11 hours ago, oldcpu said:

I note a big change in the BoI web page on the statistics for the LTR Visa for 31-May-2024. 

 

Instead of reporting "Statistics of LTR Visa Qualifications - Endorsement Applies for each Category" they are now reporting "Statistics of LTR Visa - Qualifications Approve".

 

What does that mean precisely?  I don't know.  Is an error in the BoI web page? or has the baseline changed in how they are reporting LTR visa statistics? 

 

As a result, I note there is a MASSIVE monthly reduction in the numbers for LTR Visa 'total applications' in all category per the current page - presumably due to the baseline (as to how this is reported) has changed, or maybe they just made a mistake.

 

Possibly I missed something already reported on this forum?

 

Yeap....looks like BOI is now reporting "approvals" versus just "applies (i.e., applications).   

 

This is good as it reflects those who met all requirements and got that golden ticket "BOI endorsement letter" that says you have met all requirements and now you just need to schedule an appt to have the visa stamped into your passport at BOI Bangkok Chamchuri Square Immigration or request the issue of the evisa from your servicing Thai Embassy "AND PAY THE FEE" regardless of which visa issuing method you use.   

 

Reporting "applies" only indicates those who submitted an application...some of which get approved and some of which do not get approved....or just go into holding status awaiting an applicant to submit additional documents.   

 

I've always suspected "quite a few/high percentage" of applicants do not get approved for various reasons such as unable to provide adequate proof of income...or submitting an application that does reflect a lot of income but it's the wrong type of income... or inability to obtain a medical coverage policy....or unable to self-insure....etc....etc...etc....I expect there are a many reasons some applications start the race but never finish especially since there is no upfront fee...the fee only applies once approved and you actually take the step to have the visa issued within 60 days of the BOI Endorsement Letter (i.e., approval letter).

 

Last month when the government announced a batch of new visa changes like the new Digital Nomad Visa a couple of those announcements talked about the other visa programs already in place such as the LTR visa program that had over 4,000 "approvals" already.    That was the very first time I had seen any LTR stats/numbers that talked actual approvals vs just applies (applications).  I thought maybe some HiSo govt official making some of these new visa types announcements did want to hear/talk visa "applications" (X-amount which are not approved) and only wanted to talk actual approvals.   

 

Now we are seeing "approval" stats on the BOI LTR website for the first time.  Below are the Approval stats thru 31 May 2024 (1st snapshot).  And for comparison I added a 2nd snapshot that shows "Applications (Applies}" stats thru 30 Apr 2024.  

 

Now, based on recent tracking there was approx 300 new Applies each month.  So, if BOI was still reporting stats based on "Applies" I expect the 31 May stats would have shown "approximately 7622 Applies" vs the 7322 shown in the 2nd snapshot which go thru 30 Apr only.   But since BOI is now reporting Approvals which stands at 4,253 Approvals thru 31 May that means approx 56% of Applications have been getting approved.  That is, 4253 approvals divided by 7622 applications gives an "overall" approval percentage of almost 56%. 

 

However, the individual types of LTR visa has different approval rates in comparison to the overal 56%....you all can do the math on that but it looks like the "Work from Thailand" group is only getting around a 35% approval rate.   

 

 

LTR "Approval" Stats Thru 31 May 2024

 

 

LTR "Application" stats thru 30 Apr 2024

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Yeap....looks like BOI is now reporting "approvals" versus just "applies (i.e., applications).   

I'm eagerly awaiting my approval letter. It's been 2 weeks since I submitted. Not sure how long it takes. I submitted everything they could possibly need, so I don't expect any additional docs request. I've been checking my BOI acct, and watching for some kind of notice, either by email or regular mail, but nothing yet.

[Danny Liu]

I submitted my LTR application since 10 April and the latest additional document request for insurance is on 04 May. After I submitted the insurance certificate on 14 May, the status is stuck at "Consideration by Government Agencies". Please advise should I contact BOI for update?

 

Thanks

[stat]

6 hours ago, Pib said:

 

Yeap....looks like BOI is now reporting "approvals" versus just "applies (i.e., applications).   

 

This is good as it reflects those who met all requirements and got that golden ticket "BOI endorsement letter" that says you have met all requirements and now you just need to schedule an appt to have the visa stamped into your passport at BOI Bangkok Chamchuri Square Immigration or request the issue of the evisa from your servicing Thai Embassy "AND PAY THE FEE" regardless of which visa issuing method you use.   

 

Reporting "applies" only indicates those who submitted an application...some of which get approved and some of which do not get approved....or just go into holding status awaiting an applicant to submit additional documents.   

 

I've always suspected "quite a few/high percentage" of applicants do not get approved for various reasons such as unable to provide adequate proof of income...or submitting an application that does reflect a lot of income but it's the wrong type of income... or inability to obtain a medical coverage policy....or unable to self-insure....etc....etc...etc....I expect there are a many reasons some applications start the race but never finish especially since there is no upfront fee...the fee only applies once approved and you actually take the step to have the visa issued within 60 days of the BOI Endorsement Letter (i.e., approval letter).

 

Last month when the government announced a batch of new visa changes like the new Digital Nomad Visa a couple of those announcements talked about the other visa programs already in place such as the LTR visa program that had over 4,000 "approvals" already.    That was the very first time I had seen any LTR stats/numbers that talked actual approvals vs just applies (applications).  I thought maybe some HiSo govt official making some of these new visa types announcements did want to hear/talk visa "applications" (X-amount which are not approved) and only wanted to talk actual approvals.   

 

Now we are seeing "approval" stats on the BOI LTR website for the first time.  Below are the Approval stats thru 31 May 2024 (1st snapshot).  And for comparison I added a 2nd snapshot that shows "Applications (Applies}" stats thru 30 Apr 2024.  

 

Now, based on recent tracking there was approx 300 new Applies each month.  So, if BOI was still reporting stats based on "Applies" I expect the 31 May stats would have shown "approximately 7622 Applies" vs the 7322 shown in the 2nd snapshot which go thru 30 Apr only.   But since BOI is now reporting Approvals which stands at 4,253 Approvals thru 31 May that means approx 56% of Applications have been getting approved.  That is, 4253 approvals divided by 7622 applications gives an "overall" approval percentage of almost 56%. 

 

However, the individual types of LTR visa has different approval rates in comparison to the overal 56%....you all can do the math on that but it looks like the "Work from Thailand" group is only getting around a 35% approval rate.   

 

 

LTR "Approval" Stats Thru 31 May 2024

 

 

LTR "Application" stats thru 30 Apr 2024

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your post!

 

This statistic is really a sad joke. Not only are the applications very low but the decline rate at about 50% is very high. Considering that we are talking about supposedly sophisticated applicants that are in the range of 80K plus USD yearly or (nearly) jump other high hurdles something is wrong here IMHO.

 

Did anyone get any feedback from TRD or BOI regarding the exemption of all ww income (pending the possible law change in 2025). I just got an reply from BOI that the remitted income is exempted. No idea what will happen if TRD claims non remitted income has to be taxed from 2025 forward. I think TRD does not care nor have to care what BOI states. The sole arbiter what is taxable is the TRD.

 

If Thai RD states all ww income is exempted the LTR visa is by far the best option. I am really glad that my plan is to apply in 2025 or 2026 so I can see how this plays out.

Edited June 14 by stat

[JohnnyBD]

6 hours ago, stat said:

This statistic is really a sad joke. Not only are the applications very low but the decline rate at about 50% is very high. Considering that we are talking about supposedly sophisticated applicants that are in the range of 80K plus USD yearly or (nearly) jump other high hurdles something is wrong here IMHO.

With that high decline rate, I can only assume that many of those didn't really meet the requirements, and since it didn't cost anything to apply, they probably figured, why not roll the dice and give it a try. The only problem with that, is it clogs up the system and slows things down for those who do meet the requirements.

[stat]

44 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

With that high decline rate, I can only assume that many of those didn't really meet the requirements, and since it didn't cost anything to apply, they probably figured, why not roll the dice and give it a try. The only problem with that, is it clogs up the system and slows things down for those who do meet the requirements.

Possible yes, but I doubt that one spends a whole day or so collecting all the documents and applying just for the fun of it. The only thing that is debatable are if an income is passive or not the rest should be fairly easy, especially as I understand that if you are missing a document you can send it in later. Apparently they are very strict/inflexible on the documents. Same for the OA Visa where you can have 6 digits in a brokerage account in cash but for some reasons (that are not comprehensible to western minds) brokerage accounts are not allowed, only checking accounts to prove 20K and 200.000 USD are not enough cause it is a brokerage account 😉 

Edited June 14 by stat

[stat]

Maybe someone with fluent written Thai can ask TRD what their opinion is on the LTR Visa tax exemptions? Much obliged!

[JohnnyBD]

8 hours ago, stat said:

Possible yes, but I doubt that one spends a whole day or so collecting all the documents and applying just for the fun of it. The only thing that is debatable are if an income is passive or not the rest should be fairly easy, especially as I understand that if you are missing a document you can send it in later. Apparently they are very strict/inflexible on the documents. Same for the OA Visa where you can have 6 digits in a brokerage account in cash but for some reasons (that are not comprehensible to western minds) brokerage accounts are not allowed, only checking accounts to prove 20K and 200.000 USD are not enough cause it is a brokerage account 😉 

I know. I feel badly for those who meet the requirements but their income is from different sources which BOI doesn't accept. Fortunately, I meet the pension only requirements. I would liked to have used the $100k (seasoned for 1 year), instead of having to buy the medical policy, but all of my cash was in a brokerage account, so I couldn't use it. Maybe I will move my cash now, and next year, ask them if it's ok to self-insure. I submitted my appl. 2 weeks ago and haven't heard anything yet. Just anxious to get it done, becuase my marriage extension is coming up in Sept.

[SHA 2 BKK]

14 hours ago, stat said:

Maybe someone with fluent written Thai can ask TRD what their opinion is on the LTR Visa tax exemptions? Much obliged!

From recollection a member on this thread has been to the RD directly to apply for a TIN to cover the new requirements.    The RD said and I paraphrase “no can” as LTR Visa holders are not affected by the RD’s new directive.   You will have to scroll back some but I seem to recall.  
 

I too have the BOI email saying overseas remittances remain tax free but I am being careful to only remit 2023 savings and my DTA covered Australian Government Service Pension.  

[Alotoftravel]

19 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I would liked to have used the $100k (seasoned for 1 year), instead of having to buy the medical policy, but all of my cash was in a brokerage account, so I couldn't use it.

At my brokerage company, they offer savings account and brokerage account. I have money market funds ( Sweep )in brokerage account.

Do I need to convert  it in cash in brokerage account

And does it need to be in the savings account? 
 

[Ben Zioner]

On 6/5/2024 at 10:25 PM, Ben Zioner said:

The problem is that it would make the paragraph  of RD743  on the remittance of foreign income irrelevant. Remittance won't be taxed anymore, earning will. Having to rephrase RD 743 may well lead to unpleasant changes.

Actually, readind @stat's posts I am wondering whether we could, with RD as it stands, get taxed on all overseas income, with the remitted portion becoming deductible. TRT (This Remains Thailand) after all.

[JohnnyBD]

2 hours ago, Alotoftravel said:

At my brokerage company, they offer savings account and brokerage account. I have money market funds ( Sweep )in brokerage account.

Do I need to convert  it in cash in brokerage account

And does it need to be in the savings account? 
 

It is my understanding, that the $100k has to be in a bank savings account, not in a brokerage firm. I will need to move my cash from Fidelity to my bank.

[aublumberg]

On 6/14/2024 at 11:01 AM, Pib said:

However, the individual types of LTR visa has different approval rates in comparison to the overall 56%....you all can do the math on that but it looks like the "Work from Thailand" group is only getting around a 35% approval rate. 

 

LTR "Approval" Stats Thru 31 May 2024

 

Thanks Pib for your post. Good to see BOI changed from reporting applicants to reporting approved LTR visa holders. I am not too surprised about the ~50% rejection rate to be honest given many of the discussions and experience sharing on this forum and on others like Reddit especially for Work From Thailand Professionals (LTR-T) category. Perhaps this may have contributed to the recently proposed separate DTV visa category.

 

21 months into the program, the figures of approved LTR visas are very small, especially compared to the envisioned scale when the program was first promoted. Considering many of the Wealthy Pensioners converted from an existing O visa, and presumably many of the Wealthy Global Citizens and Work From Thailand Professionals may spend substantial periods of the year outside of the country (at least I do), then the total economic benefit may come down to just ~2,500 (pure estimate on my part) individuals including dependents living (and spending) in Thailand fulltime. Falling short just a tad of the 200k target per year on average. Let's hope BOI will continue the LTR program ...