LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[oldcpu]

9 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

Maybe Jim was thinking it would be better to keep most of one's USD in the US earning a lot more interest than in a Thai bank which pays very little, and it only takes 1 day to wire it to one's Thai bank when ready to convert it to THB. That's what I thought he meant.

 

And I do agree with him that it would be better to keep most of one's USD in the US earning a lot more interest than in a Thai bank (in USD).  "most" is the operative word here.

 

My point is I prefer not to keep all of my USD in a US bank.  I want some money in Thailand, immediately available - and I do not want to keep my 'immediately available' money all in Thai baht.  When I was a type-OA and later type-O visa, I had requirements to maintain the equivalent of 800k THB (or greater) in a Thai bank. That did not need to be in Thai baht.

 

If one has a certain amount of money in some Thai banks (and it need not be in Thai baht)  one gets certain perks, such as priority at the bank when one shows up, access to a VIP sitting area at the bank, a limited # of airline lounge access for free, health club access for free and some other perks.   If that money was in the USA, those perks would not be provided.  And in the mean time that money, in Thailand, can be converted to Thai baht in minutes, and not in days.

 

Again, its not all one's USD (as most is OUTSIDE of Thailand), but it is USD in a Thai bank.  Having in USD helps ensure only a restricted amount of one's assets is in Thai baht.

 

Going back again - to the original question - why do some want a USD account in Thailand?  I think I answered that question why some do.  Clearly not everyone agrees, and clearly this is NOT the approach for many, and that is perfectly fine, we all have our own way of doing things.

Edited September 7 by oldcpu

[stat]

9 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

And I do agree with him that it would be better to keep most of one's USD in the US earning a lot more interest than in a Thai bank (in USD).  "most" is the operative word here.

 

My point is I prefer not to keep all of my USD in a US bank.  I want some money in Thailand, immediately available - and I do not want to keep my 'immediately available' money all in Thai baht.  When I was a type-OA and later type-O visa, I had requirements to maintain the equivalent of 800k THB (or greater) in a Thai bank. That did not need to be in Thai baht.

 

If one has a certain amount of money in some Thai banks (and it need not be in Thai baht)  one gets certain perks, such as priority at the bank when one shows up, access to a VIP sitting area at the bank, a limited # of airline lounge access for free, health club access for free and some other perks.   If that money was in the USA, those perks would not be provided.  And in the mean time that money, in Thailand, can be converted to Thai baht in minutes, and not in days.

 

Again, its not all one's USD (as most is OUTSIDE of Thailand), but it is USD in a Thai bank.  Having in USD helps ensure only a restricted amount of one's assets is in Thai baht.

 

Going back again - to the original question - why do some want a USD account in Thailand?  I think I answered that question why some do.  Clearly not everyone agrees, and clearly this is NOT the approach for many, and that is perfectly fine, we all have our own way of doing things.

Great post, thanks! Which bank would you recommend for USD holdings in TH and what rate do the TH banks pay on USD? Thanks!

Edited September 7 by stat

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, stat said:

Great post, thanks! Which bank would you recommend for USD holdings in TH and what rate do the TH banks pay on USD? Thanks!

 

It depends on the type of account. Typically fixed deposit accounts offer MUCH higher interest than daily accounts.  And after a fixed deposit period expires the rate can change drastically.

 

Honestly - I don't bother looking anymore at the rates for Thailand banks as they change.  Yes, I have US dollar accounts in Thailand banks, but compared to the amount in US dollar I have outside of Thailand, these amounts are relatively very small.

 

In fact 'relatively' is the important word here. What is very small to me, could be massive for someone else.  And what is very large to me, could be very trivial for someone else. The wealth between people can vary drastically.  ... And honestly, in public forum, I prefer NOT to get into numbers.

 

So my apologies, but I am not the one who can answer your question if "interest rates" is your criteria to consider for accounts in Thailand banks as I do not track it from month to month. I spend my attention on my overseas accounts (mostly trading with some savings) where most of my money is located.

 

In regards to Thailand banks, I only deal with Krungsri and Bangkok Bank.  If one wishes to change between currencies, Bangkok Bank is FAR superior to Krungsri, as one can do it on line and have the currency be exchanged FAST.  In contrast, for Krungsri, one has to go to one's branch IN PERSON to have the currency exchanged (say from USD to Thai baht). NOT so convenient for Krungsri.

 

HOWEVER, if one does not want to keep too much money in a Thai bank, then in terms of perks from the Bank (such as VIP priority service, use of bank lounge for VIP customers, free passes to health clubs, free passes to airport lounges (and some other perks I don't use so I can't think of them off the top of my head), Krungsri is superior to Bangkok Bank. One needs far less money in Krungsri to be a VIP as opposed to Bangkok bank.

 

In regards to this LTR thread, for LTR Wealthy Pensioners, and/or LTR Wealthy Global Citizens, who presumably have the money and are not just barely making the LTR (wealthy) category, then I believe it useful to investigate the perks that the banks have. The perks can save one time and energy, where such time and energy is something as I get older I find very valuable.

Edited September 7 by oldcpu

[JohnnyBD]

19 hours ago, stat said:

Great post, thanks! Which bank would you recommend for USD holdings in TH and what rate do the TH banks pay on USD? Thanks!

The interest rates on my FCD USD accts at my Thai banks are listed below. Thai banks pay very little in interest. You can lock up the money for up to 12 mths and get a slightly better interest rate, but then you may miss out on any FX opportunities. That is why I keep the minimum required amount in each Thai USD acct. I currently get 4.95% APY on my USD with Fidelity Investments, and it only takes 1 day to move the USD to my Thai USD accts, so it's much better for me to leave my USD in the US until I'm ready to convert to THB. As everyone else says, "to each his own".

UOB pays me .10% APY (annual percentage yield)

SCB pays me  .05% APY

BBL pays me  .05% APY

Edited September 8 by JohnnyBD

[stat]

6 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

The interest rates on my FCD USD accts at my Thai banks are listed below. Thai banks pay very little in interest. You can lock up the money for up to 12 mths and get a slightly better interest rate, but then you may miss out on any FX opportunities. That is why I keep the minimum required amount in each Thai USD acct. I currently get 4.95% APY on my USD with Fidelity Investments, and it only takes 1 day to move the USD to my Thai USD accts, so it's much better for me to leave my USD in the US until I'm ready to convert to THB. As everyone else says, "to each his own".

UOB pays me .10% APY (annual percentage yield)

SCB pays me  .05% APY

BBL pays me  .05% APY

Thanks for your post! The interest on USD is a joke with thai banks (as I have expected.) So only a kind of emergency fund makes sense to keep in a thai bank IMHO. There should always be the option to withdraw 5K EUR a day in baht per credit card (with BKK for example 150K Baht cash withdrawal per day at counter) with the right credit card in TH or use western union (very high fees) in an emergency.

[K2938]

So what are the latest thoughts on which, if any, tax benefits will remain for the LTR visa once the taxation of global income is introduced as evidently planned by the Thai government (see article two days ago in the newspaper which cannot be mentioned)? 

[Ben Zioner]

6 hours ago, K2938 said:

So what are the latest thoughts on which, if any, tax benefits will remain for the LTR visa once the taxation of global income is introduced as evidently planned by the Thai government (see article two days ago in the newspaper which cannot be mentioned)? 

All, or none. And anything in between, such as the 17% flat tax.

[oldcpu]

11 hours ago, K2938 said:

So what are the latest thoughts on which, if any, tax benefits will remain for the LTR visa once the taxation of global income is introduced as evidently planned by the Thai government (see article two days ago in the newspaper which cannot be mentioned)? 

 

If the article I read, is the "newspaper which cannot be mentioned" that you refer to, I suspect the Royal Decree which makes foreign income tax exempt for LTR visa holders will take precedence".  ie no affect (which is my speculation).

 

If this is changed, then it might be changed with a grandfather clause for the LTR Visa, protecting those who already have the LTR (that is also speculation by me).

 

Or if this is changed such that there is no such protection and if the Royal Decree is amended or superseded with regards to LTR tax exemption (that is also speculation by me - which I also speculate won't happen) then there are other considerations.

 

For example, I suspect for most (not all) of us on an LTR visa, our foreign income has already been taxed in a foreign country covered under a Double Tax Agreement (DTA) with Thaliand. So even if the LTR tax exemption were to be removed, many on the LTR visa won't be affected (other than perhaps to have to file an income tax return).  Again - speculation.

 

And also, given the LTR tends to appeal more to those who already have the money, and given the official Thai government past clarifications were that Thai resident's money from outside of Thailand prior to 1-Jan-2024 would not be assessed as taxable under the recent interpretation/changes, then likely many of us on the LTR already have enough money saved out side of Thailand, so to be able to live in Thailand for the remainder of our lives.  We just then need a confirmed record of the amount of money we had as of 1-Jan-2024, and keep a running spreadsheet(?) record/ track of only that non-taxable (by Thailand) money being brought into Thailand.  Of course that is speculation too.

 

But you asked for the "latest thoughts" and I believe such can only be speculation at this time.

 

[stat]

6 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

If the article I read, is the "newspaper which cannot be mentioned" that you refer to, I suspect the Royal Decree which makes foreign income tax exempt for LTR visa holders will take precedence".  ie no affect (which is my speculation).

...

 

 

Good post!

 

One point I like to add:

 

If ww income taxation comes into place you would pay thai PIT taxes on your capital gains i.e. share gains as those are not taxed in the country of origin. Your pre 2024 savings would be safe, but that does not help much because you pay a lot on your 2025 capital gains like 35% after reaching a low threshold. TH does not have special rates for cap gains even if the profit is not transfered.

 

Another article:

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/thai-revenue-department-is-drafting-new-tax-laws-471430

 

Ms Kulaya pointed out that the proposed rule changes will depend on international cooperation and information exchange as Thailand is already a member of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development for tax information exchange amongst countries. There are many other complications too. For example, foreign holders of the 10-year Long Term Residence visa are exempt from taxation on foreign income remitted to Thailand, a very popular marketing ploy. However, they may not be exempt from worldwide income not remitted to Thailand unless a special clause was included in any legislation.

 

I have mentioned this several times that the taxation of unremitted income could become a big financial risk for all LTR holders.

 

However Pattaya mail is not exactly a law journal it shows that there is a certain risk and one has to ascertain the situation before Mid June 2025 IMHO.

Edited September 9 by stat

[msbkk]

5 minutes ago, stat said:

Good post!

 

One point I like to add:

 

If ww income taxation comes into place you would pay thai PIT taxes on your capital gains i.e. share gains as those are not taxed in the country of origin. Your pre 2024 savings would be safe, but that does not help much because you pay a lot on your 2025 capital gains like 35% after reaching a low threshold. TH does not have special rates for cap gains even if the profit is not transfered.

 

Another article:

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/thai-revenue-department-is-drafting-new-tax-laws-471430

 

Ms Kulaya pointed out that the proposed rule changes will depend on international cooperation and information exchange as Thailand is already a member of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development for tax information exchange amongst countries. There are many other complications too. For example, foreign holders of the 10-year Long Term Residence visa are exempt from taxation on foreign income remitted to Thailand, a very popular marketing ploy. However, they may not be exempt from worldwide income not remitted to Thailand unless a special clause was included in any legislation.

 

I have mentioned this several times that the taxation of unremitted income could become a big financial risk for all LTR holders.

 

However Pattaya mail is not exactly a law journal it shows that there is a certain risk and one has to ascertain the situation before Mid June 2025 IMHO.

I doubt that capital gains (share gains of investments) overseas will be taxed here as Thailand does not have a capital gain tax for individual investors.

[stat]

2 hours ago, msbkk said:

I doubt that capital gains (share gains of investments) overseas will be taxed here as Thailand does not have a capital gain tax for individual investors.

Capital gains are taxed like ordinary income in Thailand hence 35% in the highest tax bracket. To make things even worse, losses cannot be offset against gains!

[msbkk]

1 hour ago, stat said:

Capital gains are taxed like ordinary income in Thailand hence 35% in the highest tax bracket. To make things even worse, losses cannot be offset against gains!

At least for the Thai SET capital gains are tax free here. I doubt that in reality it will apply to international investing for smaller individual investors. Let's wait and see. Until now there is nothing really clear for the new law. 

Edited September 9 by msbkk

[stat]

1 hour ago, msbkk said:

At least for the Thai SET capital gains are tax free here. I doubt that in reality it will apply to international investing for smaller individual investors. Let's wait and see. Until now there is nothing really clear for the new law. 

Investements in the Thai SET are tax free but that might be 0.01% of the amount that people in this forum have invested, so close to irrelevant.  If international taxation comes into play you will have to pay capital gains taxes.

 

Sorry but apparently you were not aware about capital gains taxes in TH and now you claim that they will not apply for individual investors for some mysterious reason that you fail to mention.

Edited September 9 by stat

[msbkk]

8 hours ago, stat said:

Investements in the Thai SET are tax free but that might be 0.01% of the amount that people in this forum have invested, so close to irrelevant.  If international taxation comes into play you will have to pay capital gains taxes.

 

Sorry but apparently you were not aware about capital gains taxes in TH and now you claim that they will not apply for individual investors for some mysterious reason that you fail to mention.

I did not claim that they will not apply. I wrote that I doubt it.

[stat]

7 hours ago, msbkk said:

I did not claim that they will not apply. I wrote that I doubt it.

So to put is simply you think one will have to pay or one won't have to pay PIT on capital gains?

 

Do you agree that you were not aware that capital gains were taxed in TH.

 

Why is it so difficult to make a clear statement when one is wrong about something?

Edited September 10 by stat

[msbkk]

41 minutes ago, stat said:

So to put is simply you think one will have to pay or one won't have to pay PIT on capital gains?

 

Do you agree that you were not aware that capital gains were taxed in TH.

 

Why is it so difficult to make a clear statement when one is wrong about something?

OK, for large private investors you are correct, there is a capital gain tax for gains overseas.   For the majority of us smaller investors I believe it is irrelevant for us. The Thai tax authorities do not have any interest in that. 

[stat]

27 minutes ago, msbkk said:

OK, for large private investors you are correct, there is a capital gain tax for gains overseas.   For the majority of us smaller investors I believe it is irrelevant for us. The Thai tax authorities do not have any interest in that. 

So what do you propose when it comes to handing in the tax declaration? It is either tax evasion (not handing in or understaating) or you state your correct cap gains. You seriously think then that you do not have to pay because you are just a "small" investor?  Where is that stated in the thai tax code? You simply have to pay according to your thai tax PIT bracket.

 

 

[msbkk]

3 minutes ago, stat said:

So what do you propose when it comes to handing in the tax declaration? It is either tax evasion (not handing in or understaating) or you state your correct cap gains. You seriously think then that you do not have to pay because you are just a "small" investor?  Where is that stated in the thai tax code? You simply have to pay according to your thai tax PIT bracket.

 

 

The details about to tax foreigners in Thailand are not even exactly specified by parliament. There are still discussions going on.  Nobody knows exactly what will be required next year. Until now I was not required to declare taxes here because my for my income withholding tax is already deducted here. I am not in panic mode like most of other members here. 

[stat]

23 hours ago, msbkk said:

The details about to tax foreigners in Thailand are not even exactly specified by parliament. There are still discussions going on.  Nobody knows exactly what will be required next year. Until now I was not required to declare taxes here because my for my income withholding tax is already deducted here. I am not in panic mode like most of other members here. 

All the aforementioned discussion was under the requirement that a ww income taxation comes into play as stated several times or that cap gains are remitted to TH.

 

Amazing to what length you go instead of simply saying you were not aware on the impact of ww taxation if you have capital gains. Again there is no withholding tax on cap gains in ANY major country that I know of. Sorry to say but apparently you do not understand the working of withholding tax despite the fact it was pointed out several times and you do not understand the difference in taxation between cap gains and interest and dividends.

 

Wrap up: Cap gains are taxed according to PIT i.e. up to 35%. No losses can be offset, in 2024 cap gains that are remitted should be taxable. If ww taxation comes into place all cap gains should be taxable whether remitted or not.

 

So this is a huge difference for asset rich investors. No withholding tax can be substracted from cap gains as cap gains are (usually) not taxed in the country where they arise.

Edited September 11 by stat

[msbkk]

50 minutes ago, stat said:

All the aforementioned discussion was under the requirement that a ww income taxation comes into play as stated several times or that cap gains are remitted to TH.

 

Amazing to what length you go instead of simply saying you were not aware on the impact of ww taxation if you have capital gains. Again there is no withholding tax on cap gains in ANY major country that I know of. Sorry to say but apparently you do not understand the working of withholding tax despite the fact it was pointed out several times and you do not understand the difference in taxation between cap gains and interest and dividends.

 

Wrap up: Cap gains are taxed according to PIT i.e. up to 35%. No losses can be offset, in 2024 cap gains that are remitted should be taxable. If ww taxation comes into place all cap gains should be taxable whether remitted or not.

 

So this is a huge difference for asset rich investors. No withholding tax can be substracted from cap gains as cap gains are (usually) not taxed in the country where they arise.

I know very well the differences and I did not go into length. I simply pointed out that I am not required to pay capital gain taxes until now.  You are correct in saying that it is a  difference for asset rich  investors. I was not aware of that and I accept your correction.

Edited September 11 by msbkk

[leinez]

On 8/29/2024 at 12:22 PM, Ben Zioner said:

 

I would ask my local immigration office (where I maintain a friendly relationship by paying 1000 Baht donations for minor services such as life certificates) first. If this failed I'd fly to Bangkok, have a nice dinner and/or a good booboom, get it done at Chamchuri next dat and fly back. 

 

This is how we survive pleasantly in LOS.

 

But never push the pleasant tree to far.

Just to share some feedback...

 

despite the BOI telling me to come to Chamchuri

 

no need to pay THB 1,000 for friendly relationships and no need to fly to Bangkok for dinner and extra activities

 

Koh Samui immigration issued the certificate for free, it took 5 mins to apply and pick up was ready a week later.  Total time spent 10 mins, total money spent 0

[Ben Zioner]

2 hours ago, leinez said:

no need to pay THB 1,000 for friendly relationships and no need to fly to Bangkok for dinner and extra activities

Great, if that's good for you. But I enjoy a bit of Thainess with my IO. Just I like a bit of boomboom in Krung Thep every now and then.

 

But you gotta be kidding, you have and LTR visa and are too stingy to make a little gift to your friendly I.O? And it isn't graft either as gifts up to 2000 Baht are fully legal in Thailand. 

[stat]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

Great, if that's good for you. But I enjoy a bit of Thainess with my IO. Just I like a bit of boomboom in Krung Thep every now and then.

 

But you gotta be kidding, you have and LTR visa and are too stingy to make a little gift to your friendly I.O? And it isn't graft either as gifts up to 2000 Baht are fully legal in Thailand. 

It that so that gifts are legal up to 2000? I would really like to know, krap!

[Ben Zioner]

2 hours ago, stat said:

It that so that gifts are legal up to 2000? I would really like to know, krap!

It is up to 3000 Baht actually, above that the civil servant must report the gift to his supervisor(s). You are allowed and welcome to show your appreciation for services rendered by a government employee. 

Edited September 13 by Ben Zioner

[gravity101]

Fellow LTR friends. What's your thoughts on the global income tax and the LTR visa? It seems on other threads, most assume the LTR visa tax exempt wont extend to cover the new proposed global income tax (I personally think they is an element of jealousy and like to see failure).

 

I (lazily) engaged a lawyer to do my LTR WP and I asked him recently, he said they wouldn't even consider to try and tax you after making it a central pillar of this visa type being tax free. He also said it makes no sense to allow incoming funds to be free of tax, yet still try and tax the same money a different way, it will defeat the purpose entirely. He also said the tax on global income and/or money remitted regardless of year earnt was squarely aimed at Thais anyway. Wondering what LTR visa holders think or have heard?

[stat]

1 hour ago, gravity101 said:

Fellow LTR friends. What's your thoughts on the global income tax and the LTR visa? It seems on other threads, most assume the LTR visa tax exempt wont extend to cover the new proposed global income tax (I personally think they is an element of jealousy and like to see failure).

 

I (lazily) engaged a lawyer to do my LTR WP and I asked him recently, he said they wouldn't even consider to try and tax you after making it a central pillar of this visa type being tax free. He also said it makes no sense to allow incoming funds to be free of tax, yet still try and tax the same money a different way, it will defeat the purpose entirely. He also said the tax on global income and/or money remitted regardless of year earnt was squarely aimed at Thais anyway. Wondering what LTR visa holders think or have heard?

As mentioned before I asked BOI several times the question about taxation of unremitted income and they did not answer. Pls ask them yourself to make them aware that this is a central pillar as you correctly mentioned of the allure of the LTR. It makes "sense" or TH to tax unremitted income in order to increase inflows to TH. One way could be to reverse the inflow several days later but my guess is that there could be a problem as soon as you start to transfer 6 or 7 digits USD amounts out of Thailand every year.

 

Pls ask TRD if you are currently in Thailand.

 

The current status is that no one knows.

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, gravity101 said:

(I personally think they is an element of jealousy and like to see failure).

Why would there be jealousy, when anyone id free to apply for the LTR visa? We are all in the same boat aren't we?

[Ben Zioner]

5 minutes ago, stat said:

As mentioned before I asked BOI several times the question about taxation of unremitted income and they did not answer. Pls ask them yourself to make them aware that this is a central pillar as you correctly mentioned of the allure of the LTR. It makes "sense" or TH to tax unremitted income in order to increase inflows to TH. One way could be to reverse the inflow several days later but my guess is that there could be a problem as soon as you start to transfer 6 or 7 digits USD amounts out of Thailand every year.

 

Pls ask TRD if you are currently in Thailand.

 

The current status is that no one knows.

I agree it would perfect sense from the Government's point of view. But, after my first reaction, I have read RD 743 several times and the word 'remitted' doesn't appear.

[gravity101]

5 minutes ago, stat said:

As mentioned before I asked BOI several times the question about taxation of unremitted income and they did not answer. Pls ask them yourself to make them aware that this is a central pillar as you correctly mentioned of the allure of the LTR. It makes "sense" or TH to tax unremitted income in order to increase inflows to TH. One way could be to reverse the inflow several days later but my guess is that there could be a problem as soon as you start to transfer 6 or 7 digits USD amounts out of Thailand every year.

 

Pls ask TRD if you are currently in Thailand.

 

The current status is that no one knows.

I'd very much like to ask them and tell them directly, but alas I think my query wouldn't reach the right level, even if there is a level that knows. The BOI, I'm sure your aware, reports directly to the Ministry office, so we have to assume that the TRD wouldn't be allowed to overrule/interfere any directive/incentive from the BOI/Ministry. It's pretty clear that the BOI created this incentive to promote direct investment, as such the TRD shouldn't be able to interfere with it.

[gravity101]

32 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Why would there be jealousy, when anyone id free to apply for the LTR visa? We are all in the same boat aren't we?

Alas we are not all the same, but are indeed in the same boat. Most I'd wager are on year on year Non-O/Non-B visas, or now on 6+6 month DTV visas. Some maybe juggling (or forging) documentation, some blocking out funds that they need or even borrowing funds, having to do border runs or spending hours in front of IOs each year who are now faced with potential tax bills on top of that. Judging from other threads, I've seen great delight in calling out those those that have paid for an easy ride and privileges that may now be taken away. For example, the elite visa is practically a dirty admission now on the forums, which I find funny, because all the elite visa holders I know are perfectly content, because they are (ahem), rich and don't care.