LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[stat]

31 minutes ago, gravity101 said:

I'd very much like to ask them and tell them directly, but alas I think my query wouldn't reach the right level, even if there is a level that knows. The BOI, I'm sure your aware, reports directly to the Ministry office, so we have to assume that the TRD wouldn't be allowed to overrule/interfere any directive/incentive from the BOI/Ministry. It's pretty clear that the BOI created this incentive to promote direct investment, as such the TRD shouldn't be able to interfere with it.

Feedback from BOI that others have gotten was to ask Thai RD. No farang (me included) can fathom which faction in the Thai government has the final say.

 

Only thing we can currently state is that is unclear if unremitted income will be taxed, IF ww taxation would come into play. I have been loughed at numerous times when I brought this topic up several months ago. Now it is obvious that the taxation issue is unclear, despite the royal decree as the rd "only" explicitly covers remitted income.

Edited Monday at 11:17 AM by stat

[anrcaccount]

55 minutes ago, stat said:

As mentioned before I asked BOI several times the question about taxation of unremitted income and they did not answer. Pls ask them yourself to make them aware that this is a central pillar as you correctly mentioned of the allure of the LTR. It makes "sense" or TH to tax unremitted income in order to increase inflows to TH. One way could be to reverse the inflow several days later but my guess is that there could be a problem as soon as you start to transfer 6 or 7 digits USD amounts out of Thailand every year.

 

Pls ask TRD if you are currently in Thailand.

 

The current status is that no one knows.

 

You will not get an answer from them, it's pointless you asking. 

 

There is no law on taxation of unremitted income. They are considering changing it, if they do, it will likely take many years before it comes into force.

 

I'm not usually a defendant of Thai bureaucracy................ but it's unreasonable to expect them to answer a theoretical question, regarding a potential future law, that hasn't been passed. 

 

 

[stat]

4 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

You will not get an answer from them, it's pointless you asking. 

 

There is no law on taxation of unremitted income. They are considering changing it, if they do, it will likely take many years before it comes into force.

 

I'm not usually a defendant of Thai bureaucracy................ but it's unreasonable to expect them to answer a theoretical question, regarding a potential future law, that hasn't been passed. 

 

 

While I see your point, it is not unreasonably for them to give the answer that currently there is no blanket exception for unremitted income SHOULD ww income taxation come into place. In lots of jurisdictions you get a gurantee or contract that income is tax exempted or taxed at 10% etc no matter what.

 

It is up to BOI to talk to TRD and find out what is what. Apparently they cannot do that or they already know the answer because it is negative. Either way the issue is open and no one should count on the RD to exempt unremitted income in case of an LTR visa that is all I am saying. If one is willing to pay 50K baht for an 10 year visa with an unclear tax status that is highly risky if you have substantial foreign income and care about your tax bill.

 

I am sure as hell not going to pay for a visa and then have higher taxes (35% marginal tax rate) as in the developped worlds WITHOUT even being able to substract my cap losses from the gains. This could lead to paying 200.000K USD p.a. on a real world trading loss for anyone active in the stock market.

Edited Monday at 04:20 PM by stat

[MPoll]

There are so few people with an LTR I don’t see them bothering about changing our tax exempt status. 

[JohnnyBD]

18 hours ago, gravity101 said:

Fellow LTR friends. What's your thoughts on the global income tax and the LTR visa?

Tax on ww foreign income for tax residents may eventually come to pass, but it hasn't yet. If that day ever comes, and LTR-P visa holders are not exempt, then I will simply stay less than 180 days per year in Thailand. Not a problem for me.

Edited yesterday at 03:56 AM by JohnnyBD

[oldcpu]

14 hours ago, stat said:

I am sure as hell not going to pay for a visa and then have higher taxes (35% marginal tax rate) as in the developped worlds WITHOUT even being able to substract my cap losses from the gains. This could lead to paying 200.000K USD p.a. on a real world trading loss for anyone active in the stock market.

 

You made your point very clear, but I think you will find massive disagreement from many of us, who already decided we were going to live in Thailand long before the LTR visa, and in fact even more so ? it was relevant to those of us living in Thailand long before the LTR visa. 

 

When I applied for the LTR visa, the taxation aspect was the LAST thing on my mind. The LAST.   At that time, these new tax interpretations and potential (not yet) new tax law were not even talked about.   I think that is clear.  The taxation aspects only came out later and now those planning to be in Thailand > 180days in a calendar year are starting to have concerns (on all visas).

 

In my case, the taxation benefit of the LTR visa was an aspect that I did not think important when I applied for the LTR visa. 

 

So if tax not an issue, why then, apply for the LTR visa?

 

1.  Its cheaper than a type-O / OA visa over a 10 year period if one considers the included multiple re-entry.  So LTR is superior financially.

 

2. No need for 90-day reports. Instead yearly reports, and for those of us who travel internationally once/year, possibly NO reports dependent on our departure date. So LTR is superior in terms of reports.

 

3.  Instead of EVERY YEAR (on a Type-O/OA) visa, having to prove one's financial status, one only has to prove such every 5 years. That is a big convenience for many of us on the LTR visa (in particular for those who have the money).

 

4.  Access to FAST TRACK lines which is very useful for those who do not fly business class and who also do not have a Thai spouse and who are also not considered a senior. That is a BIG benefit for those who travel through crowded airports.

 

5.  Self health-insurance is possible with the LTR visa (for those of us who have the money), as compared to the Type-OA visa where one has to obtain health insurance from the Thai branch of a Health insurance company, or (for those on a Type-OA) be forced to dump their Type-OA and go for a type-O.  In fact the LTR will even allowed health insurance from a non-Thai branch of a health insurance company (if one can show the necessary paperwork, which some users have been able to do).  So the LTR is once again superior there.

 

So UNLIKE yourself, many of us DO get  benefit, independent of ANY tax considerations.  

 

Frankly, your tax concerns apply to ALL OTHER Thai visas, even more than the LTR visa, if one wishes to stay in Thailand >180days per calendar year.  

 

A great thing (IMHO) about Thailand is it has many different visas, and we each get to choose the one is best for us.  

 

Edited yesterday at 06:38 AM by oldcpu

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

When I applied for the LTR visa, the taxation aspect was the LAST thing on my mind. The LAST.   At that time, these new tax interpretations and potential (not yet) new tax law were not even talked about.   I think that is clear.  The taxation aspects only came out later and now those planning to be in Thailand > 180days in a calendar year are starting to have concerns (on all visas).

 

In my case, the taxation benefit of the LTR visa was an aspect that I did not think important when I applied for the LTR visa. 

 

So if tax not an issue, why then, apply for the LTR visa?

 

1.  Its cheaper than a type-O / OA visa over a 10 year period if one considers the included multiple re-entry.  So LTR is superior financially.

 

2. No need for 90-day reports. Instead yearly reports, and for those of us who travel internationally once/year, possibly NO reports dependent on our departure date. So LTR is superior in terms of reports.

 

3.  Instead of EVERY YEAR (on a Type-O/OA) visa, having to prove one's financial status, one only has to prove such every 5 years. That is a big convenience for many of us on the LTR visa (in particular for those who have the money).

 

4.  Access to FAST TRACK lines which is very useful for those who do not fly business class and who also do not have a Thai spouse and who are also not considered a senior. That is a BIG benefit for those who travel through crowded airports.

 

5.  Self health-insurance is possible with the LTR visa (for those of us who have the money), as compared to the Type-OA visa where one has to obtain health insurance from the Thai branch of a Health insurance company, or (for those on a Type-OA) be forced to dump their Type-OA and go for a type-O.  In fact the LTR will even allowed health insurance from a non-Thai branch of a health insurance company (if one can show the necessary paperwork, which some users have been able to do).  So the LTR is once again superior there.

 

So UNLIKE yourself, many of us DO get  benefit, independent of ANY tax considerations.  

 

Frankly, your tax concerns apply to ALL OTHER Thai visas, even more than the LTR visa, if one wishes to stay in Thailand >180days per calendar year.  

 

A great thing (IMHO) about Thailand is it has many different visas, and we each get to choose the one is best for us.  

You're so right. The type of visa you're on has nothing to do with the ww foreign income taxation issue. If one doesn't want to pay for a 10 year LTR visa, that person can stay on a yearly retirement or marriage extension, or they can use one of the short-term visa options. Each visa type has it's own associated costs, so each person can weigh the cost benefits, and decide what's best for their own situation. The LTR-WP visa is best for me, regardless of what happens with the ww taxation issue.

Edited yesterday at 07:45 AM by JohnnyBD

[stat]

There seems to be a missunderstanding. I am not criticising anyone with an LTR Visa, far from it. My point is solely that if taxes are a concern for you the future tax situation is unclear in Thailand if you hold an LTR visa or plan to get one. There were some people claiming that no matter what will happen in 2025 the LTR will gurantee tax exempt status even for unremitted income, which is currently unclear.

 

My main concern is tax but that only applies to myself, each to their own!

 

For my personally TH is no longer a country that I will stay in longer then 180 days if I have to pay 6 figure taxes p.a. when other countries are next door without taxes.

Edited yesterday at 09:01 AM by stat

[gravity101]

1 hour ago, stat said:

There seems to be a missunderstanding. I am not criticising anyone with an LTR Visa, far from it. My point is solely that if taxes are a concern for you the future tax situation is unclear in Thailand if you hold an LTR visa or plan to get one. There were some people claiming that no matter what will happen in 2025 the LTR will gurantee tax exempt status even for unremitted income, which is currently unclear.

 

My main concern is tax but that only applies to myself, each to their own!

 

For my personally TH is no longer a country that I will stay in longer then 180 days if I have to pay 6 figure taxes p.a. when other countries are next door without taxes.

Unclear, but the best bet surely at this time.  I do know I can officially bring money in now without fear of owing any tax, that is reason enough and for me and the main reason. 50k is nothing for that peace of mind. The 10 year multiple entry etc etc is just a bonus (and cheaper). There are other ways to move world wide income around to avoid the CRS/FACTA reporting back to Thailand if it ever got to that, that's got to be better than uprooting to another country for me.

[oldcpu]

5 hours ago, stat said:

There seems to be a missunderstanding. I am not criticising anyone with an LTR Visa, far from it.

...

For my personally TH is no longer a country that I will stay in longer then 180 days if I have to pay 6 figure taxes p.a. when other countries are next door without taxes.

 

That being the case - are you now considering the new Visa Exempt or DTV visas?  < my speculation >

 

Even if staying in Thailand less than 180-days per calendar year (but still come for almost 1/2 year, every year), then if one has the money, that one can prove (to meet the constraints of the BoI criteria),  then I believe the LTR has significant advantages over the Type-O and Type-OA visas.  I listed them above.

 

The LTR visa 50,000 THB is actually less expensive (as I pointed out) than what one would pay for the Type-O / OA visas with a multiple-reentry permit (if one comes to Thailand every year, with a few trips in/out but spends less than 180-days in the country per calendar year). 

 

I believe only the new DTV and VisaExempt changes possibly provide other possibilities - but I do suspect on the VisaExempt, if one starts staying some # of days (maybe 150 days or more in a calendar year < my speculation > one could run into an IO (who woke up on the wrong side of the bed) that when one is entering Thailand, that IO may take exception to one spending so much time in Thailand visa-exempt.   That sort of experience (being denied entry, or questioned like one was working illegally when was not doing such) could spoil one's travel a LOT.

Edited yesterday at 02:26 PM by oldcpu

[stat]

4 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

So, someone is confused. Let me explain for the person who put the confused Emoji. With regard to foreigners and their foreign income, what determines taxation in Thailand is whether you are a tax resident (staying 180 days or more in country), NOT what type of visa you are on. You can be on a 10 year LTR visa, retirement extension or marriage extension, and still not be a tax resident. Understand now? Ok then.

 

Sorry Johnny you are wrong. If you are on an LTR visum and you remit income your income is free (hopefully). If you are on any other visa in TH it is not. There is not really a need for a visum if you intend to stay under 180 days so I assume you are a tax resident anyway if we are talking visa. So here is an example that the visum type determines your tax bill (if 180 days plus in TH).

 

However the main question at least for me is not the difference between visa IN Thailand it is between a visum in Thailand and between a visum in another country with substantial tax advantages. Again if you have substantial offshore income the tax situation is important. I assume that the majority of people who have at least 80K passive income are concerned about a potential 6 figure tax payment.

 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 02:52 PM by stat

[stat]

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

That being the case - are you now considering the new Visa Exempt or DTV visas?  < my speculation >

 

Even if staying in Thailand less than 180-days per calendar year (but still come for almost 1/2 year, every year), then if one has the money, that one can prove (to meet the constraints of the BoI criteria),  then I believe the LTR has significant advantages over the Type-O and Type-OA visas.  I listed them above.

 

The 50,000 THB is actually less expensive (as I pointed out) than what one would pay for the Type-O / OA visas with a multiple-reentry permit (if one comes to Thailand every year, with a few trips in/out but spends less than 180-days in the country per calendar year). 

 

I believe only the new DTV and VisaExempt changes possibly provide other possibilities - but I do suspect on the VisaExempt, if one starts staying some # of days (maybe 150 days or more in a calendar year < my speculation > one could run into an IO (who woke up on the wrong side of the bed) that when one is entering Thailand, that IO may take exception to one spending so much time in Thailand visa-exempt.   That sort of experience (being denied entry, or questioned like one was working illegally when was not doing such) could spoil one's travel a LOT.

I will not be in TH at all, as long as the tax issue is not clear. The O-A visum seems like a good option as it allows for close to 2 years in TH. With his tax issue I do not think planing in decades makes any sense for me so I would not spend 50K for a 10 year visum instead I would rather spend 175€ for a 2 year visum. If tax exemption comes to pass on all income, the LTR visum is a no brainer.

 

Again this applies only for people with substantial offshore income who are concerned with their tax bill.

 

 

[oldcpu]

38 minutes ago, stat said:

Again this applies only for people with substantial offshore income who are concerned with their tax bill.

 

Thats fair .

 

If one has structured their income outside of Thailand, such that their foreign income has minimal to no tax obligations, then as you point out, for all Thai visas the possibility of these new tax changes can be of concern (although I believe the LTR may have less of a concern due to the LTR Royal Decree).  I assume in the case of concern over paying taxes in Thailand (for income from outside of Thailand), one needs to start researching one or more places in the world where one may wish to spend 185 or more days of a calendar year outside of Thailand.  There would most likely be a lot of effort involved there with such research (to do so in detail, cities, neighbourhoods, rentals ... etc ) , unless one has family or friends where one can stay for long periods of time (outside of Thailand).  All of this effort to try and save Thai tax on TBD income.

 

My own view is most of us (even with substantial investments) are already covered under Double Taxation Agreements (DTA) and that most of us were not able in our lifetime to structure our financial earnings in a minimal tax environment.

 

In my case, my wife is Thai and after living outside of Thailand for 20 years (married) its now her turn for us to live in Thailand.  I already had an adequate investment in Thailand (condominium ownership) that helped contribute to me meeting the BoI LTR visa criteria, and most (possibly all < unsure > ) my foreign pension and investment income is covered by a DTA, so the new tax laws are something I watch, just in case the Royal Decree is superseded, and just in case so I don't make a mistake.  Just in case! Just in case????  At present time thou ... this is a LOT OF SPECULATION re: any Thai income tax on foreign income the LTR visa holders of  Wealthy Global citizens or Wealthy Pensioners may (or may not) have to be concerned about.

 

My main interest thou, is to be certain I do not need to file a Thai tax return when on the LTR visa (as I have insufficient Thai income from interest in Thai sources, but clearly I have a lot of assessable (but exempt) foreign income) - where at present I do not plan to file such a return.

Edited yesterday at 03:13 PM by oldcpu

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, stat said:

Sorry Johnny you are wrong. If you are on an LTR visum and you remit income your income is free (hopefully). If you are on any other visa in TH it is not. There is not really a need for a visum if you intend to stay under 180 days so I assume you are a tax resident anyway if we are talking visa. So here is an example that the visum type determines your tax bill (if 180 days plus in TH).

You misunderstood my comments. I was discussing ww taxation which you brought up, not current law.

See part of your previous post that started this whole discussion about ww income taxation below: 

23 hours ago, stat said:

unremitted income SHOULD ww income taxation come into place

 

I am a LTR-WP visa holder and know very well that my remitted income as well as my unremitted income is tax exempt under the current law.

12 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

Tax on ww foreign income for tax residents may eventually come to pass, but it hasn't yet. If that day ever comes, and LTR-P visa holders are not exempt, then I will simply stay less than 180 days per year in Thailand. Not a problem for me.

If they ever pass a new law taxing tax resident's ww income, hopefully they will exempt LTR-WP visa holders, but I wouldn't bet on it, that is why I will just stay less that 180 days in country. I don't need to move to another country like some. I will just spend more time in my home country visiting my loved ones. If they do pass a new law, then LTR visa holders will probably be in the same boat as all the other visa types.

Edited yesterday at 04:10 PM by JohnnyBD

[JohnnyBD]

13 hours ago, stat said:

Sorry Johnny you are wrong. If you are on an LTR visum and you remit income your income is free (hopefully). If you are on any other visa in TH it is not.

Sorry, my mistake. I didn't word my previous post correctly. I do agree that if worldwide income taxation ever becomes law, it's not clear if LTR visa holders will keep their tax exempt status (me included). I am confident we have tax exempt status right now on all income (remitted & unremitted), but if we lose our tax exempt status in the future, then taxation will be determined by tax residency (180 days in country), and NOT by which visa one is on. That's what I meant before.

On 9/16/2024 at 10:55 PM, JohnnyBD said:

On 9/16/2024 at 4:26 AM, gravity101 said:

Fellow LTR friends. What's your thoughts on the global income tax and the LTR visa?

Tax on ww foreign income for tax residents may eventually come to pass, but it hasn't yet. If that day ever comes, and LTR-WP visa holders are not exempt, then I will simply stay less than 180 days per year in Thailand. Not a problem for me.

 

21 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

The type of visa you're on has nothing to do with the ww foreign income taxation issue. If one doesn't want to pay for a 10 year LTR visa, that person can stay on a yearly retirement or marriage extension, or they can use one of the short-term visa options. Each visa type has it's own associated costs, so each person can weigh the cost benefits, and decide what's best for their own situation. The LTR-WP visa is best for me, regardless of what happens with the ww taxation issue.

 

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBD said:

I do agree that if worldwide income taxation ever becomes law, it's not clear if LTR visa holders will keep their tax exempt status (me included).

The document of reference, when this happens, will be RD 743, so their will either rescind it altogether, amend it, or reinterpret it.

 

If it was the latter, LTR/HSP. holders would pay 17% IT on their earnings in Thailand while their overseas income would become assessable in Thailand. While the wording regarding other categories is somewhat more reassuring, especially for people who live off pensions exclusively.

[stat]

On 9/17/2024 at 8:31 AM, oldcpu said:

 

You made your point very clear, but I think you will find massive disagreement from many of us, who already decided we were going to live in Thailand long before the LTR visa, and in fact even more so ? it was relevant to those of us living in Thailand long before the LTR visa. 

 

When I applied for the LTR visa, the taxation aspect was the LAST thing on my mind. The LAST.   At that time, these new tax interpretations and potential (not yet) new tax law were not even talked about.   I think that is clear.  The taxation aspects only came out later and now those planning to be in Thailand > 180days in a calendar year are starting to have concerns (on all visas).

 

In my case, the taxation benefit of the LTR visa was an aspect that I did not think important when I applied for the LTR visa. 

 

So if tax not an issue, why then, apply for the LTR visa?

 

1.  Its cheaper than a type-O / OA visa over a 10 year period if one considers the included multiple re-entry.  So LTR is superior financially.

 

2. No need for 90-day reports. Instead yearly reports, and for those of us who travel internationally once/year, possibly NO reports dependent on our departure date. So LTR is superior in terms of reports.

 

3.  Instead of EVERY YEAR (on a Type-O/OA) visa, having to prove one's financial status, one only has to prove such every 5 years. That is a big convenience for many of us on the LTR visa (in particular for those who have the money).

 

4.  Access to FAST TRACK lines which is very useful for those who do not fly business class and who also do not have a Thai spouse and who are also not considered a senior. That is a BIG benefit for those who travel through crowded airports.

 

5.  Self health-insurance is possible with the LTR visa (for those of us who have the money), as compared to the Type-OA visa where one has to obtain health insurance from the Thai branch of a Health insurance company, or (for those on a Type-OA) be forced to dump their Type-OA and go for a type-O.  In fact the LTR will even allowed health insurance from a non-Thai branch of a health insurance company (if one can show the necessary paperwork, which some users have been able to do).  So the LTR is once again superior there.

 

So UNLIKE yourself, many of us DO get  benefit, independent of ANY tax considerations.  

 

Frankly, your tax concerns apply to ALL OTHER Thai visas, even more than the LTR visa, if one wishes to stay in Thailand >180days per calendar year.  

 

A great thing (IMHO) about Thailand is it has many different visas, and we each get to choose the one is best for us.  

 

Thailand is hands down my favorite country to live in. As long as the ww income taxation does not come into beeing I will chose TH as I could live with the remittance taxation and simply live off just from gifts from my relatives. I agree with all of the points you mentioned about the LTR, LTR is the best visa if you are sure you will stay the 10 years. Peace of mind is very important to me and the LTR does just that.

 

If I would be sure that everything stays the same in TH in the next 10 years (no upheavels, no tax scares, no changes in personal situation etc) the LTR wins hands down.

 

Self insurance was a valid point for me but then I came across a german health expat insurance for 69€ per months (up to 65 and you have to live in GER before) that is accepted by the Thai authorities. The thai insurances were a joke in my view as they did not provide sufficient coverage and were expensive in regards to their coverage.

 

I am really happy that I can watch from the sideline how this tax scare plays out. Hopefully in Mid 2025 we will see the impact of the new rules and if LTR visa gets a full tax exemption which I hope for.

[JohnnyBD]

8 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

The document of reference, when this happens, will be RD 743, so their will either rescind it altogether, amend it, or reinterpret it.

 

If it was the latter, LTR/HSP. holders would pay 17% IT on their earnings in Thailand while their overseas income would become assessable in Thailand. While the wording regarding other categories is somewhat more reassuring, especially for people who live off pensions exclusively.

Bottom line, if I lose my LTR tax exemption for any reason, I will just stay less than 180 days per year going forward. I have a Thai wife here, so I will split my time between my home country and here. I do not want to deal with having to file tax returns in two countries. I hope they don't change anything.

Edited 7 hours ago by JohnnyBD