LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, Schorsch0815 said:

Anyhow, for 2024 I didn't transfer any funds into Thailand and only used local credit cards. So there was/is no foreign income transferred into Thailand in 2024.

 

For the future I  planning to only  transfer funds that I owned pre-2024 to support my life in Thailand. As most of my assets are investments in stock markets it's a bit of a nuisance to distinguish between assets owned pre-2024 and assets bought from income that I earned later on, in particular if I buy/sell share. 

 

If someone has guidance on how to prove/document that money transferred into Thailand comes from "old (pre-2024 assets)" versus "new" income, please let me know.

 

 

That is also my approach at present time (I also have an LTR-WP visa), where for year 2024-to-2026 or so, I have no plans to bring more money into Thailand, until it is more clear as to the Thai policy with the LTR visa and the need (or no need) in regards to tax returns. 

 

If not clear by ~2026 or so, then any income I bring in will be from funds saved from before 1-Jan-2024.

 

What I have done is make a print / electronic copy of my financial position (equities/cash) dated 31-Dec-2023 at the close of business day, so that I can prove its credible that any money that I might bring into Thailand (likely bring in after year 2026) is from savings BEFORE 1-Jan-2024.  I will keep those records.

 

My hope is that NONE of this is necessary, and that in the next year or two it shall be more clear that no-income tax return will be needed for LTR-WP visa holders.   I feel fortunate to have the luxury to be able to adopt this approach.

[JimGant]

13 hours ago, oldcpu said:

the deciding criteria (re: tax return needed or not needed for an LTR Wealthy pension visa holder) is the Thai Revenue Department (RD) and not BoI - although obviously it is of interest to hear of the BoI opinion.

A Thai tax return is required only if you have assessable income. To be assessable income, it has to be subject to Thai taxation (subject, but not necessarily taxable, if exceeded by TEDA). If your DTA says certain income, when remitted, is not taxable by Thailand, then ipso facto it is also not assessable income. If a Thai law says pre-2024 savings are not taxable, then they, too, are not assessable. If a Royal Decree says remitted income by LTR holders is not taxable -- it too is therefore not assessable.

 

Thus, if no assessable income, then no requirement to file a Thai tax return. IMO. Lady at BoI knows of what she speaks.

[oldcpu]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

If a Royal Decree says remitted income by LTR holders is not taxable -- it too is therefore not assessable.

 

Thus, if no assessable income, then no requirement to file a Thai tax return. IMO. Lady at BoI knows of what she speaks.

 Lets hope you are correct.

 

Note thou, the Royal decree does NOT say " remitted income by LTR holders is not taxable"

 

Rather (modifying your words) it states " remitted ASSESSABLE income by LTR holders is not taxable"

 

Note the word "assessable". 

 

The Royal Decree to the best of my undestanding is clear there. 

 

It says remitted foreign ASSESSABLE income is not taxable.  It does NOT say the remitted foreign income is not assessable. 

 

Is that important?  I don't know.  But I am going to be cautious.

 

I would be happy to be proven wrong in my understanding of the translations of the Royal Decree but I suspect I do have the translation right.

 

So it now comes down to, is foreign income remitted to Thailand that the Royal Decree  CLEARLY indicates is assessable income, suddenly magically now not assessable because the Royal Decree says no tax is due.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I want to believe your view correct, ...  i want to believe BoI statement is correct, but I also note what the Royal Decree states and what the Thai RD state. 

 

Hence MY choice to manage my finances for the next few years until any ambiguity on this is removed best can be determined by experiences reported in the next few years..

[Ben Zioner]

45 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 Lets hope you are correct.

 

Note thou, the Royal decree does NOT say " remitted income by LTR holders is not taxable"

 

Rather (modifying your words) it states " remitted ASSESSABLE income by LTR holders is not taxable"

 

Note the word "assessable". 

 

The Royal Decree to the best of my undestanding is clear there. 

 

It says remitted foreign ASSESSABLE income is not taxable.  It does NOT say the remitted foreign income is not assessable. 

 

Is that important?  I don't know.  But I am going to be cautious.

 

I would be happy to be proven wrong in my understanding of the translations of the Royal Decree but I suspect I do have the translation right.

 

So it now comes down to, is foreign income remitted to Thailand that the Royal Decree  CLEARLY indicates is assessable income, suddenly magically now not assessable because the Royal Decree says no tax is due.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I want to believe your view correct, ...  i want to believe BoI statement is correct, but I also note what the Royal Decree states and what the Thai RD state. 

 

Hence MY choice to manage my finances for the next few years until any ambiguity on this is removed best can be determined by experiences reported in the next few years..

But is it such a big issue to file a tax return if our income is exempt?

 

I have only pensions so it'll be a simple case Expat Tax Thailand (or equivalent). It'll cost me a couple of hundred USD, no big deal. But I won't to do it before 2026 anyway.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

It says remitted foreign ASSESSABLE income is not taxable.  It does NOT say the remitted foreign income is not assessable. 

Yeah, meaning income otherwise taxable (i.e., assessable income), 'cause not exempt by DTA -- is by Royal Decree -- now not taxable. And, ipso facto, income not taxable is also income that is not assessable. Thus, no tax return required. Fun games with word salad. This element of what the Royal Decree really means ain't what gets my concern -- it's when we go to worldwide income taxation -- and then what does the Royal Decree encompass?

[oldcpu]

38 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

But is it such a big issue to file a tax return if our income is exempt?

 

 

No.  Its not a big deal.

 

But in my case, if I were to decide to submit a Thai tax return for the 2024 tax year, I would have to either:

 

(1) print out 2024 tax forms on paper, fill them in by hand, and then hand carry to Phuket RD (likely with my pink-ID # filled in place of the Thai TIN, or leave that TIN field blank and see what Phuket RD says).  It likely means some time spent filling in tax forms prior to going to RD office, and then maybe 1/2 day or longer sitting at the Phuket RD office while they sort what to do with my tax return,

 

or

 

(2) first go to Phuket RD office, and again apply for a Thai tax ID number (TIN) where some months back the Phuket RD refused to give me a TIN. Again, possibly 1/2 day or longer sitting in the Thai RD office while they scratch their heads and figure out what to do with me. And then after getting a TIN, going back home and doing the online Thai tax submission.

 

However, given I elected to remit NO foreign income into Thailand for year-2024 tax year, and given my interest from Thai bank/bonds is less than the amount needed to file a Thai tax return ... I don't have to do anything now.

 

But I am most curious to know.  There could be an unexpected reason in next few years when I may have to bring more money into Thailand, so I want to understand the full implications of that, if and when the time comes.

[JohnnyBD]

8 hours ago, Schorsch0815 said:

If someone has guidance on how to prove/document that money transferred into Thailand comes from "old (pre-2024 assets)" versus "new" income, please let me know. 

I can't advise anyone else what to do, but I will share what I did. At the beginning of 2024, when I was on marriage extension, I kept my pre-2024 monies separate by opening new accounts for my 2024 monies, and for my Gov't Social Security. I will keep my 2025 monies in a separate account also. As for my stock investments & retirement accounts, I don't need to remit any of those monies. I will only remit pre-2024 and non-assessable monies going forward. I received my LTR-WP visa in June 2024 and was told that any monies remitted from now on, would be tax exempt. I didn't think to ask if I needed to file a Thai tax return, but I'm not going to get a TIN and will not be filing a Thai tax return. I already file & pay taxes in the US. Good luck...

[Ben Zioner]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

Yeah, meaning income otherwise taxable (i.e., assessable income), 'cause not exempt by DTA -- is by Royal Decree -- now not taxable. And, ipso facto, income not taxable is also income that is not assessable. Thus, no tax return required. Fun games with word salad. This element of what the Royal Decree really means ain't what gets my concern -- it's when we go to worldwide income taxation -- and then what does the Royal Decree encompass?

Well if I was "them" and if RD 743 remained in effect unchanged I'd say "income remitted to Thailand will be exempt of income tax".