LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[TravelerEastWest]

6 hours ago, Tequila Sunrise said:

This is extremely good info. Last year I did not file any tax return myself so I am assuming my company did it for me. I also assume I have missed out on any chance to optimize my taxes for last year and I do not want to make the same mistake this year. My internal HR and Finance team are a large centralized service serving many hundreds of employees hence no offense to them but you do not receive a very empathetic or personalized service. I think I would rather make my own arrangements with a third party advisor. I'm trying to get the process nailed then I can share back on this group any experiences.   

 

Why would you assume that your company did it for you? Don't you need to sign your tax return? I have never heard of a tax return that was not signed by hand or electronically...

 

Why would you have missed out on last year's tax return? If not filed you can still file it - If it was filed then you can amend your return (file a corrected return) you sound like you would do well to hire an expert Thai tax CPA. You have a good income as you have posted so why do you not have an expert CPA?

 

Normally a finance department would not help in this situation and usually, an HR department would hire expert CPAs from a large international firm to do your tax return if there are lots of Expats on staff. If your company does not offer this benefit then again you may want to hire an expert unless you are not concerned about paying lots of taxes?

[oldcpu]

On 10/21/2023 at 11:45 AM, xtof2 said:

Anyone know how long does it take currently to get a LTR in the WP category? 

 

In my case I applied in January and obtained approval (and the LTR-WP) in June.    However I think it was pretty clear as to what was holding mine up each step of the way. 

 

Despite providing all the information per their requirement list at the start, I received multiple requests for more documents (in some case asking for the same document twice (they failed to spot the document in the initial upload), and in other cases because they rejected the document proof in my initial application - and they wanted different proof).

 

My pension income coming from multiple sources (different countries) complicated it a bit for BoI, I suspect.  

 

After the first couple of document rejections, I started calling the BoI office to get a better handle on why they did not like any specific document I provided, ... or ask BoI if a document I had just provided after a request was satisfactory. 

 

The biggest delays for me were being asked for my 2022 tax returns [I initially provided my 2020 and 2021 returns] ..   (when I still had not filed the 2022 return in January 2023) and a delay in proving to their satisfaction the paperwork I had was adequate to prove my investment in Thailand,  meeting their investment requirements (this also took me some weeks).

 

[K2938]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

After the first couple of document rejections, I started calling the BoI office to get a better handle on why they did not like any specific document I provided, ... or ask BoI if a document I had just provided after a request was satisfactory. 

So you did actually manage to speak to the person dealing with your case?  The reason I am asking is because prior to this I thought this was not possible.

[Tequila Sunrise]

17 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

ou can amend your retu

 

17 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

 

Why would you assume that your company did it for you? Don't you need to sign your tax return? I have never heard of a tax return that was not signed by hand or electronically...

 

Why would you have missed out on last year's tax return? If not filed you can still file it - If it was filed then you can amend your return (file a corrected return) you sound like you would do well to hire an expert Thai tax CPA. You have a good income as you have posted so why do you not have an expert CPA?

 

Normally a finance department would not help in this situation and usually, an HR department would hire expert CPAs from a large international firm to do your tax return if there are lots of Expats on staff. If your company does not offer this benefit then again you may want to hire an expert unless you are not concerned about paying lots of taxes?

 

Yes, I am definitely concerned about paying lots of taxes. I understand that a good CPA can cover their costs and more. I started my employment on 7 November 2022 so I guess I was finding accommodation and settling in and assumed that for less than 2 months' employment the tax wouldn't be able to claim much of a refund. I never signed anything or saw any sight of any tax return so I have no idea if it was done or not. I'm OK to let last year go but would like to be better prepared this year. If you notice from my other posts I was asking if anyone can recommend a CPA. My situation might be different to yours as I have no support network in Thailand, I do not yet have a single friend. This is why I joined the forums to seek some hopefully genuine advice. I wouldn't like to just Google "Thai CPA" and select one from the list.

 

Great news. I have collected my LTR HSP today. A very smooth process although my advice is allow 3 to 4 hours as it is not a quick process. My appointment lasted just over 3 hours. 

 

Next step is to apply for my work permit. I will share my experience on whether it's a simple process and how long it takes.

 

 

  

[TravelerEastWest]

4 minutes ago, Tequila Sunrise said:

 

 

Yes, I am definitely concerned about paying lots of taxes. I understand that a good CPA can cover their costs and more. I started my employment on 7 November 2022 so I guess I was finding accommodation and settling in and assumed that for less than 2 months' employment the tax wouldn't be able to claim much of a refund. I never signed anything or saw any sight of any tax return so I have no idea if it was done or not. I'm OK to let last year go but would like to be better prepared this year. If you notice from my other posts I was asking if anyone can recommend a CPA. My situation might be different to yours as I have no support network in Thailand, I do not yet have a single friend. This is why I joined the forums to seek some hopefully genuine advice. I wouldn't like to just Google "Thai CPA" and select one from the list.

 

 

 

 

  

I already posted that a large international CPA firm (there are several in Bangkok) such as KPMG for example will take good care of you in an honest way but are expensive.

 

If you worked and made more than the amount required to file you need to file and this is not just to save money but to keep you out of trouble...

 

If you didn't see a tax return or sign anything I have a strong idea that it was not filed. Not having a support network should not be a problem the big firms all speak English and are easy to find.

 

Making friends should be easy join a gym do a sport etc....

 

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

2 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I already posted that a large international CPA firm (there are several in Bangkok) such as KPMG for example will take good care of you in an honest way but are expensive.

 

If you worked and made more than the amount required to file you need to file and this is not just to save money but to keep you out of trouble...

 

If you didn't see a tax return or sign anything I have a strong idea that it was not filed. Not having a support network should not be a problem the big firms all speak English and are easy to find.

 

Making friends should be easy join a gym do a sport etc....

 

 

Thanks.

 

I will ask my HR whether they filed a tax return for me covering the 2022 tax year. They pay me net of taxes each month so it seems they somehow know how much tax I need to pay, this is odd as some of my salary is variable (e.g., annual bonus) so not sure how they know or whether they do adjustments.

 

Thanks for the advice on going to a big-4 firm. Another member also recommended a smaller firm that I assume he personally vouches for. Trust me, all recommendations are gratefully received and I will follow up on these. I do appreciate the help.

 

I have joined the gym, but find most people are walking around with their headphones on not being sociable. Anyway, this is something I can work on. What I meant by friends is someone who has been in Thailand years and has made all the newbie mistakes and can share what works and what doesn't work.  It's difficult when working as my free time is extremely limited.

 

 

[TravelerEastWest]

6 minutes ago, Tequila Sunrise said:

Thanks.

 

I will ask my HR whether they filed a tax return for me covering the 2022 tax year. They pay me net of taxes each month so it seems they somehow know how much tax I need to pay, this is odd as some of my salary is variable (e.g., annual bonus) so not sure how they know or whether they do adjustments.

 

Thanks for the advice on going to a big-4 firm. Another member also recommended a smaller firm that I assume he personally vouches for. Trust me, all recommendations are gratefully received and I will follow up on these. I do appreciate the help.

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder if they are simply withholding income tax as they should, based on their best estimate - but not filing your tax returns? Does that sound like it might be the situation?

 

A small firm can be great if the partners are former big firm accountants with advanced degrees and special experience and training. If not you are asking for trouble - stay away from 'murky" practices...

 

I have been in Thailand for close to 20 years and file personal and corporate tax returns - I use a small CPA firm (around 20 people) but they mostly do auditing, bookkeeping, and simple tax returns. The owner went to the best university in Thailand and has many years of experience as a CPA but knows very little about taxation. I would never use the local CPA firm for complex tax planning.

 

I have a Big 4 tax background so I know when not to listen to my CPA.

 

But the average person has no idea when their CPA is right or wrong. So if you have a good income go with a good big firm CPA - normally the one your company uses will give you a good price check and see... Good luck!

 

 

[JoeP2]

Any recent data points on Wealthy Pensioner LTR visa?

How long is the Step 4 "Status:Consideration by Govt Agencies (20 Working Days)" is actually taking?

In earlier steps they already checked and confirmed income and asked for relevant documents. For this pensioner category seems there is little else to check apart from the fact that you are 50+  - is it actually taking 20 working days or more?

 

[oldcpu]

23 hours ago, K2938 said:

So you did actually manage to speak to the person dealing with your case?  The reason I am asking is because prior to this I thought this was not possible.

 

My recollection is when one obtains an information request, and then goes to one's BoI account login, one will see an entry "Staff Name". Under that it will have typed "screen-x" where "x" is some number.  For the sake of an example, lets say it says "screen5".

 

When I phoned BoI and asked for confirmation what I submitted was adequate, or asked for clarification on the request, I would typically be asked, what 'screen number' processed the request.  After providing such , if that person was in the office, they would forward me to them.  If they were not available (busy or away from the office) then typically the person on the phone would try to handle my case.   

 

I never once asked to speak to the specific person listed in the "Staff Name".  Rather I was asked whom.

[Misty]

9 hours ago, Tequila Sunrise said:

Thanks.

 

I will ask my HR whether they filed a tax return for me covering the 2022 tax year. They pay me net of taxes each month so it seems they somehow know how much tax I need to pay, this is odd as some of my salary is variable (e.g., annual bonus) so not sure how they know or whether they do adjustments.

 

Thanks for the advice on going to a big-4 firm. Another member also recommended a smaller firm that I assume he personally vouches for. Trust me, all recommendations are gratefully received and I will follow up on these. I do appreciate the help.

 

I have joined the gym, but find most people are walking around with their headphones on not being sociable. Anyway, this is something I can work on. What I meant by friends is someone who has been in Thailand years and has made all the newbie mistakes and can share what works and what doesn't work.  It's difficult when working as my free time is extremely limited.

 

 

Yes, your HR department should be able to clear this up immediately.  At your compensation level, it sounds like you're most likely working for a major employer. It doesn't sound like you're working for a small school or other institution that wouldn't automatically file income taxes for its foreign staff. 

 

Most likely your employer filed online, in which case you wouldnn't sign anything.  I know many expats of large employers where this is the case. Employers often do not automatically give tax filing documentation, unless it's requested.  Many expat employees don't know about the Thai personal income tax filing process.  Americans tend to be the exception, as they need Thai documentation to file their US taxes.

 

Congratulations on getting your LTR HSP, and thanks for the heads up at the time required at the BoI.  I'm returning to Thailand soon and will be switching over my existing LTR to a new LTR HSP.  Hopefully the process will go as smoothly!  The BoI staff said I can keep my existing 5 year digital work permit, so hopefully I can skip the step of getting a new one.

 

 

[xtof2]

On 10/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, JoeP2 said:

Any recent data points on Wealthy Pensioner LTR visa?

How long is the Step 4 "Status:Consideration by Govt Agencies (20 Working Days)" is actually taking?

In earlier steps they already checked and confirmed income and asked for relevant documents. For this pensioner category seems there is little else to check apart from the fact that you are 50+  - is it actually taking 20 working days or more?

 

So, I got the good news 3 days after posting here that my Application for LTR Wealthy Pensioner was approved.

Since I submitted everything on September 1st (and was never asked for any other documents, it takes way more than 20 working days to get an answer these days...but I also know from a friend it went faster for him a few months ago.

My advice, if you live in Bangkok,  is to go to BOI in Chamchuri to have them call the government agencies to figure out your status ( I did it twice).

I also sent an email last weekend through the BOI platform ...and received an email back from them 3 days later saying it was approved, with a detailed explanation about the process. I just need to update a few documents (the last passport-stamped page, and a medical certificate but for this one, my understanding is that it is only required for the category with work permit). 

So al good !

 

On 10/24/2023 at 11:20 PM, K2938 said:

So you did actually manage to speak to the person dealing with your case?  The reason I am asking is because prior to this I thought this was not possible.

As said above, yes you can visit BOI in Bangkok as much as you want, you can also call the BOI number to get some information/updates about your application

[SHA 2 BKK]

5 hours ago, xtof2 said:

So, I got the good news 3 days after posting here that my Application for LTR Wealthy Pensioner was approved.

Since I submitted everything on September 1st (and was never asked for any other documents, it takes way more than 20 working days to get an answer these days...but I also know from a friend it went faster for him a few months ago.

My advice, if you live in Bangkok,  is to go to BOI in Chamchuri to have them call the government agencies to figure out your status ( I did it twice).

I also sent an email last weekend through the BOI platform ...and received an email back from them 3 days later saying it was approved, with a detailed explanation about the process. I just need to update a few documents (the last passport-stamped page, and a medical certificate but for this one, my understanding is that it is only required for the category with work permit). 

So al good !

 

As said above, yes you can visit BOI in Bangkok as much as you want, you can also call the BOI number to get some information/updates about your application

Well done mate and welcome to the LTR “Team”.  
 

We still don’t know if LTR Pensioners will have to lodge a Tax Return given the changed interpretation of overseas remittances.  But as this income is tax free if remitted from the previous years income I imagine no return will be needed if the above conditions are met. 

[TravelerEastWest]

I was approved last week for a WP LTR and uploaded my insurance form on Tuesday. note October 4th I started the process.

 

Any guesses on when I will be able to make an appointment to pick up the visa in Bangkok?

[Pib]

 

6 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I was approved last week for a WP LTR and uploaded my insurance form on Tuesday. note October 4th I started the process.

 

Any guesses on when I will be able to make an appointment to pick up the visa in Bangkok?

Just as soon as you reach Step 8 Status: Visa/WP Issuance Preapproved.   At that time your online profile/status will change to where you can make an appointment...an appointment which will probably have plenty of ASAP openings.  Back in late Dec 2022 on a Friday I reached to point of being able to make an appt...I made the appt for Monday morning.  Watch your account and email inbox (and spam box) closely....if in doubt call/email BoI.

 

 

[TravelerEastWest]

Thank you

 

I am on screen 7 I meant to say how long do you guess until screen 8? My paperwork should be fine they are just adding my AXA insurance...

[Pib]

8 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Thank you

 

I am on screen 7 I meant to say how long do you guess until screen 8? My paperwork should be fine they are just adding my AXA insurance...

It's hard telling. if it meets the requirements in could happen almost immediately assuming it's looked at immediately.....but if they beat around the bush in reviewing the insurance doc it could be weeks.   If you don't get approval by this coming Wed I would definitely call.   BoI is the only organization that needs to look at the insurance paperwork. It's not like the initial review of your application where BoI does the core look and then some other agencies also take a quick look to ensure you are not on some bad boy list.  How fast a person's application takes to reach final endorsement (approval) has been all over the map.  

[TravelerEastWest]

Thank you good advice

 

Wednesday it is unless I cant wit then Monday or Tuesday - smiling...

[Pib]

Heck, I just noticed you said you uploaded the insurance doc on Tuesday....so they have had 3 days to review it.  Give them until lunch time Monday morning...if not approved by then I would call them Monday afternoon.  Good luck. 

[xtof2]

14 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Thank you

 

I am on screen 7 I meant to say how long do you guess until screen 8? My paperwork should be fine they are just adding my AXA insurance...

I'm still on step 5 ...but they're requesting a medical certificate???

 

 

I thought it was only for the ones asking for a work permit. A friend got the LTR Pensioner without that (but with health insurance of course)

Is it a new thing?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TravelerEastWest]

14 hours ago, Pib said:

Heck, I just noticed you said you uploaded the insurance doc on Tuesday....so they have had 3 days to review it.  Give them until lunch time Monday morning...if not approved by then I would call them Monday afternoon.  Good luck. 

Thank you!

 

Will do...

[Pib]

4 hours ago, xtof2 said:

I'm still on step 5 ...but they're requesting a medical certificate???

 

 

I thought it was only for the ones asking for a work permit. A friend got the LTR Pensioner without that (but with health insurance of course)

Is it a new thing?

 

Did they send you an email or call you specifically asking for Item #2 "OR" are you just looking at what you submitted earlier which just happens to show #2....and probably show some other numbered areas where you "could" upload/add docs "if required for your application."   

 

When you initially submit an application there are some docs that do "not" apply and you do not need to upload those docs.  It's just there is an entry/area available for your to Add (upload) certain docs if your particular application requires it.

 

My LTR WP (which was approved/issued) Dec 2022 also shows item #2 when I view the area where you can view all the docs you uploaded.     Just because you can "add" a doc does not mean it's required "UNLESS the BoI specifically ask you for it by email/call/entering a request in red text under a certain area.   

 

I don't see anything in your snapshot that indicates BoI has requested you to provide item #2.....if they needed it there would be some comments in red text from BoI asking for it.

[xtof2]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Did they send you an email or call you specifically asking for Item #2 "OR" are you just looking at what you submitted earlier which just happens to show #2....and probably show some other numbered areas where you "could" upload/add docs "if required for your application."   

 

When you initially submit an application there are some docs that do "not" apply and you do not need to upload those docs.  It's just there is an entry/area available for your to Add (upload) certain docs if your particular application requires it.

 

My LTR WP (which was approved/issued) Dec 2022 also shows item #2 when I view the area where you can view all the docs you uploaded.     Just because you can "add" a doc does not mean it's required "UNLESS the BoI specifically ask you for it by email/call/entering a request in red text under a certain area.   

 

I don't see anything in your snapshot that indicates BoI has requested you to provide item #2.....if they needed it there would be some comments in red text from BoI asking for it.

 

Thanks. Appreciated!

 

I did not receive anything asking me to do that and, again, I have a friend who got his LTR without submitting a health certificate. The only difference with him is I am asking it for me but also for my wife and child.

Since, I think, it is mandatory for the ones requesting a work permit, they could have put this item with the list requested specifically for work permits. 

I hope it will be fine. The good thing is that the steps after # 6 till the visa stamp go much faster from what I am reading. My current visa expiry date is the end of November. 

[stat]

On 10/12/2023 at 2:31 PM, TravelerEastWest said:

OK another update from the visa guy who talked with the BOI today the Pension visa is only exempt for overseas income taht does not come into Thailand....

 

For now - who knows what will happen next year...!

So is this correct or was it an error? Thanks!

[Thailand J]

1 hour ago, stat said:

So is this correct or was it an error? Thanks!

Reply from BOI to my question about tax exemption for LTR visa holders:

[K2938]

35 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

Reply from BOI to my question about tax exemption for LTR visa holders:

Please kindly note that this answer refers to the situation BEFORE the announced planned changes in the taxation of foreign earnings.  How things will be afterwards is therefore not really addressed in there.

[Guavaman]

42 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

Reply from BOI to my question about tax exemption for LTR visa holders:

 

As usual, the devil is in the details. Some types of income are not exempted for LTR visa holders.

 

Royal Decree Issued under the Revenue Code Governing Reduction of Tax Rates and Exemption of Taxes (No. 743) B.E. 2565 (2022)

Section 5 Income tax under Part 2 of Chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue Code shall be exempted for a foreigner categorised as Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work from-Thailand Professional who is granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law for assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and brought into Thailand.

--------------------------------

EXEMPTED UNDER ROYAL DECREE 743

Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer.

(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.⁴

(5) Money or any other gain derived from:

(a) rent of property,

(8) Income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified in (1) - (7).

 

NOT EXEMPTED UNDER ROYAL DECREE 743

(4) Income that is:

(a) Interest on a bond, deposit, debenture, bill, loan whether with or without security, the part of interest on loan after deduction of withholding tax under the law governing petroleum income tax, or the difference between the redemption value and the selling price of a bill or a debt instrument issued by a company or juristic partnership or by any other juristic person and sold for the first time at a price below its redemption value. Such income also includes income assimilated to interest, benefit or other consideration derived from the provision of a loan or from a debt-claim of every kind whether with or without security.

(b) Dividend, share of profits or any other gain derived from a company or juristic partnership, a mutual fund or a financial institution established under a specific law in Thailand for the purpose of providing a loan in order to promote agriculture, commerce or industry; the part of dividend or share of profits after deduction of withholding tax under the law governing petroleum income tax.

(g) Gains derived from transfer of partnership holdings or shares, debentures, bonds, or bills or debt instruments issued by a company or juristic partnership or by any other juristic person.

[K2938]

1 hour ago, Guavaman said:

Royal Decree Issued under the Revenue Code Governing Reduction of Tax Rates and Exemption of Taxes (No. 743) B.E. 2565 (2022)

Section 5 Income tax under Part 2 of Chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue Code shall be exempted for a foreigner categorised as Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work from-Thailand Professional who is granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law for assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and brought into Thailand.

--------------------------------

EXEMPTED UNDER ROYAL DECREE 743

Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer.

(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.⁴

(5) Money or any other gain derived from:

(a) rent of property,

(8) Income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified in (1) - (7).

 

NOT EXEMPTED UNDER ROYAL DECREE 743

(4) Income that is:

(a) Interest on a bond, deposit, debenture, bill, loan whether with or without security, the part of interest on loan after deduction of withholding tax under the law governing petroleum income tax, or the difference between the redemption value and the selling price of a bill or a debt instrument issued by a company or juristic partnership or by any other juristic person and sold for the first time at a price below its redemption value. Such income also includes income assimilated to interest, benefit or other consideration derived from the provision of a loan or from a debt-claim of every kind whether with or without security.

(b) Dividend, share of profits or any other gain derived from a company or juristic partnership, a mutual fund or a financial institution established under a specific law in Thailand for the purpose of providing a loan in order to promote agriculture, commerce or industry; the part of dividend or share of profits after deduction of withholding tax under the law governing petroleum income tax.

(g) Gains derived from transfer of partnership holdings or shares, debentures, bonds, or bills or debt instruments issued by a company or juristic partnership or by any other juristic person.

This is really useful.  Where is this from, please?

 

 

[Guavaman]

3 hours ago, K2938 said:

This is really useful.  Where is this from, please?

 

First, read the Royal Decree here: https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/kormor/newlaw/Eng_IBC_Royal_Decree.pdf

 

Then read Section 40 here: https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

 

Then you can see which types of income are included in the Royal Decree = exempted. The other types of income under Section 40 are not mentioned in the Royal Decree = not exempted. 

[Thailand J]

Interest, dividends, capital gains are not exempted? Aren't they incomes from properties ( stocks, bank accounts) ?

 

[K2938]

4 hours ago, Guavaman said:

First, read the Royal Decree here: https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/kormor/newlaw/Eng_IBC_Royal_Decree.pdf

This link is to the Royal Decree No. 674.  But is the Royal Decree dealing with LTR visa holders not Royal Decree No. 743 (https://www.pkfthailand.asia/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Royal-Decree-743.pdf) (not sure what its link is for the rd.go.th website)?  I think you are still quoting from the correct Royal Decree, but the link is incorrect. 

 

As @Thailand J above, I am not sure if your interpretation of what is included / not included is correct.  But if it were - and prima facie you might well be right and I just always did not pay proper attention to this - this would be a rather unpleasant surprise.

If I may ask, is this only what you came up with yourself reading the documents or was this also confirmed to you by some tax advisor?