And so it begins

 

“Another Tory aide said Sunak should force Truss into as many TV appearances as possible. “The more people see of her, the more they will back Rishi,” they said.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/20/rishi-sunak-penny-mordaunt-liz-truss-final-round-tory-leadership-race?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Like me, she also flirted with Labour and the Lib dems in her youth before waking up to smell the coffee and moving to the Conservatives.

That is very regular and normal behaviour . 

When people are younger and still in education , they want and expect the Government to pay for everything ,  everything free and tax the rich .

   Raise the taxes and give  everyone free education, healthcare and social security . 

  Which sounds like a great ideology when you are younger .

Although when you then get older and you realise its you that has to pay for it all through taxes , you then tend to shift over to the Right a bit and question why the Government takes a large amount if your income through taxation .

  

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

you then tend to shift over to the Right a bit and question why the Government takes a large amount if your income through taxation

And then you get older still and the penny finally drops why they do, to pay for your pension and other benefits ( plus of course housing the illegal immigrants and thousands of asylum seekers) .

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is very regular and normal behaviour . 

When people are younger and still in education , they want and expect the Government to pay for everything ,  everything free and tax the rich .

   Raise the taxes and give  everyone free education, healthcare and social security . 

  Which sounds like a great ideology when you are younger .

Although when you then get older and you realise its you that has to pay for it all through taxes , you then tend to shift over to the Right a bit and question why the Government takes a large amount if your income through taxation .

  

This Government came to power promising green and sunny pastures.

 

The reality is they have delivered poverty, a cost of living crisis, inflation, corruption and ineptitude.

 

 

While entertaining the Tory leadership battle, is nothing but rearranging the deck chairs.

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This Government came to power promising green and sunny pastures.

 

The reality is they have delivered poverty, a cost of living crisis, inflation, corruption and ineptitude.

 

 

While entertaining the Tory leadership battle, is nothing but rearranging the deck chairs.

And Labour never did that....Bwaaaaaaahh....????

13 minutes ago, Excel said:

And then you get older still and the penny finally drops why they do, to pay for your pension and other benefits ( plus of course housing the illegal immigrants and thousands of asylum seekers) .

If the tax rates were lower during your working years , you could put that money into a private pension and then not be reliant on the Government pension ? 

Just now, transam said:

And Labour never did that....Bwaaaaaaahh....????

Quit trolling.

 

Labour is not the subject of this discussion.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If the tax rates were lower during your working years , you could put that money into a private pension and then not be reliant on the Government pension ? 

As a general rule, people who can’t feed themselves are not putting money in ‘Private Pensions’.

 

And anyway, higher income tax rates made savings in pensions more fiscally attractive.

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 20223 yr by Chomper Higgot

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This Government came to power promising green and sunny pastures.

 

The reality is they have delivered poverty, a cost of living crisis, inflation, corruption and ineptitude.

 

 

While entertaining the Tory leadership battle, is nothing but rearranging the deck chairs.

The current state of the U.K is due to the Covid pandemic and the Ukraine war , not much to do with Government policies . 

its now down to two....

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

The current state of the U.K is due to the Covid pandemic and the Ukraine war , not much to do with Government policies . 

And mismanagement by a corrupt Tory Government and a damaging Brexit.

 

 

Just now, blackshadow said:

its now down to two....

Only if you regard both as individually whole.

 

I’m not quite sure they are.

12 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is very regular and normal behaviour . 

When people are younger and still in education , they want and expect the Government to pay for everything ,  everything free and tax the rich .

   Raise the taxes and give  everyone free education, healthcare and social security . 

  Which sounds like a great ideology when you are younger .

Although when you then get older and you realise its you that has to pay for it all through taxes , you then tend to shift over to the Right a bit and question why the Government takes a large amount if your income through taxation .

  

For me it was more about spending a great deal of time at Uni (and beyond) in the presence of left wing, sneering, social justice warriors, and realizing fairly quickly that most of them were hypocritical characters masking their vindictiveness and spitefulness with the pretense of caring about others.

 

In my early 20's I also saw a lot of the same characters abusing the welfare state. People perfectly capable of working but instead sitting around all day smoking weed and pontificating about the evil Tories while counting the days to their next dole cheque. A few years watching this while working my <deleted> off to pay off my student debt and forge a career for myself, then the penny starts to drop about the realities of the welfare state.

 

Hopefully whoever wins this contest goes back to true Conservative values and helps those genuinely in need while offering strong incentives for the abusers of the system to get back to work (and by incentives, I mean cutting off their benefits pronto). Sunak's tax and spend policies, plus his abused furlough scheme lead me to believe Truss is more in line with my beliefs.

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And mismanagement by a corrupt Tory Government and a damaging Brexit.

 

 

The populace voted for Brexit, how come you keep getting that simple fact wrong.....?

Corrupt Tory government, why did Labour voters switch sides a short while ago.....?

Edited July 21, 20223 yr by transam

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If the tax rates were lower during your working years , you could put that money into a private pension and then not be reliant on the Government pension ? 

If wishes were horses beggars would ride. When I started work there were no such thing as private pensions and I suspect that the old age pension in the UK will always be available to those who have contributed to it. Also if a block was put on rich MPs + others using tax havens then the additional investment taxes could contribute to the UK's coffers  also providing an opportunity of lower income tax for the working population.

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

For me it was more about spending a great deal of time at Uni (and beyond) in the presence of left wing, sneering, social justice warriors, and realizing fairly quickly that most of them were hypocritical characters masking their vindictiveness and spitefulness with the pretense of caring about others.

 

In my early 20's I also saw a lot of the same characters abusing the welfare state. People perfectly capable of working but instead sitting around all day smoking weed and pontificating about the evil Tories while counting the days to their next dole cheque. A few years watching this while working my <deleted> off to pay off my student debt and forge a career for myself, then the penny starts to drop about the realities of the welfare state.

 

Hopefully whoever wins this contest goes back to true Conservative values and helps those genuinely in need while offering strong incentives for the abusers of the system to get back to work (and by incentives, I mean cutting off their benefits pronto). Sunak's tax and spend policies, plus his abused furlough scheme lead me to believe Truss is more in line with my beliefs.

And there you have it.

 

The two candidates offer dramatically different policies that cannot both be squared with the divide in the Tory Party.

 

Assuming of course the two candidates have any intention of keeping the easy promises they are making.

22 minutes ago, Excel said:

And then you get older still and the penny finally drops why they do, to pay for your pension and other benefits ( plus of course housing the illegal immigrants and thousands of asylum seekers) .

If you lower taxes and provide incentives to work hard, people wouldn't be so reliant on government pensions and 'other benefits' in retirement.

 

What's the incentive to work hard when you're taxed most of your salary and the tax is given to the spongers living next door and the illegal immigrants fresh off the boat? Stupid policies to make lefties feel good about themselves while the country goes down the toilet.

2 minutes ago, transam said:

The populace voted for Brexit, how come you keep getting that simple fact wrong.....?

Corrupt Tory government, why did Labour voters switch sides a short while ago.....?

Have you got any evidence that the public voted for damaging the economy with the Tory ‘Hard Brexit’?

 

Where in the Tory Party Manifesto did they inform the electorate of their plans for £Billions of corruption and ineptitude?

 

 

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

And there you have it.

 

The two candidates offer dramatically different policies that cannot both be squared with the divide in the Tory Party.

 

Assuming of course the two candidates have any intention of keeping the easy promises they are making.

Of course the opposition is perfectly aligned on every issue.

 

Starmer is currently out shopping for 2 left shoes to align with Dianne's 'get dressed blind' policy ????.

 

It's normal to have differences of opinion within a party. Healthy even.

Just now, JonnyF said:

If you lower taxes and provide incentives to work hard, people wouldn't be so reliant on government pensions and 'other benefits' in retirement.

 

What's the incentive to work hard when you're taxed most of your salary and the tax is given to the spongers living next door and the illegal immigrants fresh off the boat? Stupid policies to make lefties feel good about themselves while the country goes down the toilet.

The Scandinavian countries don't seem to have an issue of getting people to work hard with  high taxes providing them with a good welfare state that makes the UK's look quite stingy. Now let's see what political leanings they have ?

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

If you lower taxes and provide incentives to work hard, people wouldn't be so reliant on government pensions and 'other benefits' in retirement.

 

What's the incentive to work hard when you're taxed most of your salary and the tax is given to the spongers living next door and the illegal immigrants fresh off the boat? Stupid policies to make lefties feel good about themselves while the country goes down the toilet.

Who’s ‘taxed most of their salary’?

Just now, Excel said:

The Scandinavian countries don't seem to have an issue of getting people to work hard with  high taxes providing them with a good welfare state that makes the UK's look quite stingy. Now let's see what political leanings they have ?

Different countries, different culture, different demographics, different everything pretty much.

 

We're talking about UK politics here. The clue is in the title.

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Of course the opposition is perfectly aligned on every issue.

 

Starmer is currently out shopping for 2 left shoes to align with Dianne's 'get dressed blind' policy ????.

 

It's normal to have differences of opinion within a party. Healthy even.

The opposition is not the subject of discussion.

 

Now do you deny the splits  in the Tory party and that the two candidates sit either side of the significant split on fiscal policy?

Edited July 21, 20223 yr by Chomper Higgot

2 minutes ago, Excel said:

The Scandinavian countries don't seem to have an issue of getting people to work hard with  high taxes providing them with a good welfare state that makes the UK's look quite stingy. Now let's see what political leanings they have ?

Not Socialist.....????

Just now, JonnyF said:

Different countries, different culture, different demographics, different everything pretty much.

 

We're talking about UK politics here. The clue is in the title.

Think you missed the logic, not surprising either

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

The opposition is not the subject of discussion.

 

Now do you deny the splits  in the Tory apartheid and that the two candidates sit either side of the significant split on fiscal policy?

It's called, being honest....????

A post using an aberrant trolling reference toward another political entity has been reported and removed as well as the replies. 

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Not Socialist.....????

Who said they were ? but they are Social democratic which is considered to be centre left unlike the current batch of Tory candidates which are right to the far right in the case of Truss.

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Who’s ‘taxed most of their salary’?

In most countries that would be the government, I'm surprised you didn't know...

 

The extent to which salaries are taxed varies greatly between governments, but broadly speaking left wingers support high taxation and big government whereas right winger tend to support low taxation and smaller state interference.

 

Any other basic questions?

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The opposition is not the subject of discussion.

 

Now do you deny the splits  in the Tory party and that the two candidates sit either side of the significant split on fiscal policy?

The point is that all parties have different opinions within that party. Claiming it is a conservative thing is inaccurate.

 

Sunak and Truss have different approaches to certain issues, yes. If they all thought the same on every issue it would be like one of your lefty Twitter echo chambers which wouldn't be a great form of Democracy.