Cant decide if I should get another covid booster. What about you?

[richard_smith237]

23 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

13 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Before 2021 I had never known any young healthy person who suffered from myocarditis.

before 2021 I had never ever heard of myocarditis

Neither had the vast majority of laypeople...  yet some of us will have suffered from it through various interactions in from diet to illnesses caused by viruses and bacteria without even knowing... sometimes the symptoms are so mild... Or in rare cases, when we are feeling quite unwell (i.e. influenza) we are weak and and our body is aching we may have myocarditis at the same time...

 

There seems to be this crazy panic around myocarditis as if it always results in death... its inflammation of the heart... when we are unwell, much of the body becomes inflamed, in the case of myocarditis, the heard muscle becomes inflamed - it can of course be very serious, but more commonly symptoms are brief. 

 

 

[Sparktrader]

On 8/13/2022 at 4:13 AM, TropicalGuy said:

Don’t confuse the irrational anti - vaxxers with facts ???? like around 39 in 40 western Covid dead before omicron were ….. unvaxxed.
 

UK Office of National Statistics and Equivalent bodies in all western nations. 

This can be “opinion” as not posting links that water is wet.????????????

Lets deal in facts not scaring people.

 

   The median age for those who died from COVID-19 was 86.9 years (85.2 years for males, 88.4 years for females

 

 https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/covid-19-mortality-australia-deaths-registered-31-july-2021

 

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-death/deaths-in-australia/contents/life-expectancy

 

Avg lifespan 83yo.

 

so covid killed people older than average lifespan

 

Thats the reality.

 

Under 50yos death rate low.

[Sparktrader]

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Given it mostly killed old people we dont know.

 

 

2.5 million people died from pneumonia in 2019. Almost a third of all victims were children younger than 5 years, it is the leading cause of death for children under 5.

 

 

https://ourworldindata.org/pneumonia

[brokenbottle]

2 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

Likewise  the only people I know who haven't had it are all unvaxxed

This has been my experience as well, including myself unless what I had in October of 2019 was Covid, which is entirely possible.

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

 

When I am told by an anti-vaxxer poster I am wrong and know nothing, that is contempt of the five years I spent getting a tertiary qualification, and the 50 -odd years I spent getting better at my chosen line of work.

 

I do have to wonder if posters who dismiss training in science, logic and statistics themselves have a limited formal education, and hence a giant chip on their shoulder about the lack.

 

A friend once said to me " It doesn't matter how smart you think you are, there is always going to be someone out there who is smarter than you."

 

Can't say I have encountered an anti-vaxxer that fits the bill.

[rumak]

 The modus operandi over the last few years , where governments have acted tyranically to carry out the whole pandemic with lockdowns and terrible mandates  can be summed up now : 

                 "It's always the one with dirty hands pointing the finger"

 

Many more see that now.    And there will be many more to come .................

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, rumak said:

 The modus operandi over the last few years , where governments have acted tyranically to carry out the whole pandemic with lockdowns and terrible mandates  can be summed up now : 

                 "It's always the one with dirty hands pointing the finger"

 

Many more see that now.    And there will be many more to come .................

 

You always get that after the event, the "I told you so" crowd, who probably never said a word in the first place....????

Remember, most of the planet were doing the same thing.????

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, rumak said:

 The modus operandi over the last few years , where governments have acted tyranically to carry out the whole pandemic with lockdowns and terrible mandates  can be summed up now : 

                 "It's always the one with dirty hands pointing the finger"

 

Many more see that now.    And there will be many more to come .................

 

Hindsight is always 20:20. Tell us what you would have done.

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

 

When I am told by an anti-vaxxer poster I am wrong and know nothing, that is contempt of the five years I spent getting a tertiary qualification, and the 50 -odd years I spent getting better at my chosen line of work.

 

I do have to wonder if posters who dismiss training in science, logic and statistics themselves have a limited formal education, and hence a giant chip on their shoulder about the lack.

 

A friend once said to me " It doesn't matter how smart you think you are, there is always going to be someone out there who is smarter than you."

 

Can't say I have encountered an anti-vaxxer that fits the bill.

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.

[rumak]

40 minutes ago, transam said:

You always get that after the event, the "I told you so" crowd, who probably never said a word in the first place....????

Remember, most of the planet were doing the same thing.????

 

 

 

haha   but not me TA .     you were putting sarcastic laugh emojis on my  "anti COVID vaccines" since a long long time ago.          More than a year, in fact 

i was trying to help you understand  ????

[Lacessit]

28 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.

Which begs the question, how do anti-vaxxers know they are right?

[onthedarkside]

Several posts, and ensuing replies, have been removed for trolling, being off-topic, misinformation and a flame.

 

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

 

When I am told by an anti-vaxxer poster I am wrong and know nothing, that is contempt of the five years I spent getting a tertiary qualification, and the 50 -odd years I spent getting better at my chosen line of work.

 

I do have to wonder if posters who dismiss training in science, logic and statistics themselves have a limited formal education, and hence a giant chip on their shoulder about the lack.

 

A friend once said to me " It doesn't matter how smart you think you are, there is always going to be someone out there who is smarter than you."

 

Can't say I have encountered an anti-vaxxer that fits the bill.

You arent a doctor or a vaccine expert. Your opinion is worth no more than anybody else.

 

 

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Hindsight is always 20:20. Tell us what you would have done.

Locked down hospitals and aged care. Let others live their lives.

 

Other things kill far more people.

 

Total mismanagement.

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Locked down hospitals and aged care. Let others live their lives.

 

Other things kill far more people.

 

Total mismanagement.

In the delta wave they had no choice but to lock some hospitals in Bangkok because they were full, so doctors were forced to treat patients outside waiting on stretchers. Patients were forced to die at home with rescue workers delivering oxygen to them where they could

[rattlesnake]

42 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Which begs the question, how do anti-vaxxers know they are right?

It shouldn't be taken that literally. 

 

It's a quote I find quite fitting for people blinded by conceit and self-importance.

 

A touch of humility would be very welcome.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

COVID vaccines have saved tens of millions of lives around the world, people who otherwise would have died from COVID beyond the 6.4 million official COVID deaths already recorded worldwide (though multiple studies have found the real COVID deaths number is likely two to three times higher at this point). The following study only tracks the numbers of lives saved during the first year that COVID vaccines were in use up through early Dec. 2021:

COVID-19 vaccines saved an estimated 20 million lives in 1 year

Jun 24, 2022

 

"COVID vaccines reduced the potential global death toll during the pandemic by almost two-thirds in their first year, saving an estimated 19.8 million lives, according to a mathematical modeling study yesterday in The Lancet Infectious Diseases.

 

An additional 600,000 lives could have been spared if a World Health Organization (WHO) goal of vaccinating 40% of the population of every country by the end of 2021 had been met, the authors of the study say.

...

The scientists estimated that 18.1 million deaths would have occurred during the study period without vaccination. Of those, the model estimated that vaccination prevented 14.4 million deaths, or 79%. When they accounted for under-reporting, however, they found that COVID vaccination prevented an estimated 19.8 million deaths out of a total of 31.4 million potential deaths that would have occurred without vaccination—a reduction of 63%."

 

(more)

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/06/covid-19-vaccines-saved-estimated-20-million-lives-1-year

 

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/956782

 

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

It shouldn't be taken that literally. 

 

It's a quote I find quite fitting for people blinded by conceit and self-importance.

 

A touch of humility would be very welcome.

I see, picking and choosing as you do with COVID data.

There's a lot of things I don't know. Like how to fly an aeroplane, or perform brain surgery. A shame when quite a few posters on ASEAN could obviously benefit.

I don't see any reason to become Uriah Heep because a poster is suddenly overburdened with

sanctimony.

[rumak]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Hindsight is always 20:20. Tell us what you would have done.

I was going to try to answer your question,   After reading your next post I now see (disappointed so) that you really were not looking for an answer.    You are the smart one.   

Personally i use hindsight to help me in my quest to make better decisions going forward .  One of the first lessons I learned very early in life... which helped me make the right decision to WAIT when this crazy fear mongering led "you all need to get this shot" narrative pervaded all the media , and then anyone opposing it was called a quack if not worse................................... is that when someone tells me  "we are doing this to you for your own good"  ......   I know that they are lying !

 

especially if they will not let you hear what others have to say..

 

 

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, rumak said:

I was going to try to answer your question,   After reading your next post I now see (disappointed so) that you really were not looking for an answer.    You are the smart one.   

Personally i use hindsight to help me in my quest to make better decisions going forward .  One of the first lessons I leanrned very early in life... which helped me make the right decision to WAIT when this crazy fear mongering led "you all need to get this shot" narrative pervaded all the media , and then anyone opposing it was called a quack if not worse................................... is that when someone tells me  "we are doing this to you for your own good"  ......   I know that they are lying !

 

 

Actually, the nom de plume you have adopted makes the claim you are smart.

 

So you would have waited. Until you get tested for antibodies, you won't know if you have dodged a bullet, or are still waiting for it to arrive.

 

I had myself tested for antibodies 3 weeks after my first jab. While the result was not high, it gave me confidence if I did get COVID, I would cope with it comfortably. And I did.

 

I'd suggest if the world had waited, based on your advice, the butcher's bill of deaths and long-term impairment would have been far higher. Do you believe in natural selection in a pandemic? That's pretty cold.

 

We are all shaped by our life experiences. You evidently developed an abiding distrust of authority very early on. While I share some of that distrust, I think I am more selective in applying it.

 

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, rumak said:

Isn't there some rule about how many times someone can keep posting the same misinformation ?

"scientists estimated"     hahahahahha       try looking at the Vaers report and see the real life data

This one?

 

Fact check: Reports of adverse events due to COVID-19 vaccines are unverified

 

VAERS reports unverified As USA TODAY has previously reported, reports in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, commonly known as VAERS, are not proof of widespread serious side effects or death due to the COVID-19 vaccines.

 

VAERS reports are unverified, and the CDC says on its website that the database "is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event." If public health officials detect a reporting pattern, they conduct follow-up studies to determine whether a vaccine was to blame.

 

"I can get a COVID vaccine and my dog gets hit by a car – I can make that report and it will show up in the database," Salmon said. "It does not mean that my getting a COVID vaccine caused my dog to get hit by a car."

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/01/05/fact-check-1-million-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-events-unverified/9103381002/

[rumak]

Boy,  sure glad he got those shots.   Who knows what could have happened otherwise   ????.  But shame on him for not getting that fifth shot .      We all must keep up ,  no exceptions.....

 

 

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

COVID vaccines have saved tens of millions of lives around the world, people who otherwise would have died from COVID beyond the 6.4 million official COVID deaths already recorded worldwide (though multiple studies have found the real COVID deaths number is likely two to three times higher at this point). The following study only tracks the numbers of lives saved during the first year that COVID vaccines were in use up through early Dec. 2021:

COVID-19 vaccines saved an estimated 20 million lives in 1 year

Jun 24, 2022

 

"COVID vaccines reduced the potential global death toll during the pandemic by almost two-thirds in their first year, saving an estimated 19.8 million lives, according to a mathematical modeling study yesterday in The Lancet Infectious Diseases.

 

An additional 600,000 lives could have been spared if a World Health Organization (WHO) goal of vaccinating 40% of the population of every country by the end of 2021 had been met, the authors of the study say.

...

The scientists estimated that 18.1 million deaths would have occurred during the study period without vaccination. Of those, the model estimated that vaccination prevented 14.4 million deaths, or 79%. When they accounted for under-reporting, however, they found that COVID vaccination prevented an estimated 19.8 million deaths out of a total of 31.4 million potential deaths that would have occurred without vaccination—a reduction of 63%."

 

(more)

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/06/covid-19-vaccines-saved-estimated-20-million-lives-1-year

 

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/956782

 

You believe it? Anyone can spruce up a model to say anything.

 

Given most deaths were 70yo plus with underlying conditions how many lives did they save and for how long?

 

How many people under 50yo with no vaccine and no underlying conditions died?

 

 

[onthedarkside]

An off-topic post and a trolling post have been removed.

 

[Sparktrader]

33 minutes ago, rumak said:

Isn't there some rule about how many times someone can keep posting the same misinformation ?

"scientists estimated"     hahahahahha       try looking at the Vaers report and see the real life data

1 estimates are usually wrong

2 if you are 85yo and a vaccine saves your life for 18 months does that count the same as a 55yo who lives for another 20 years?

[Lacessit]

34 minutes ago, rumak said:

Isn't there some rule about how many times someone can keep posting the same misinformation ?

"scientists estimated"     hahahahahha       try looking at the Vaers report and see the real life data

The VAERS report is data collected from anywhere, and not assessed for causation. A drover's dog could report being off its tucker after a rabies shot, and it would be accepted into the database.

 

I quote:

 

"The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event". and

 

"VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning that reports about adverse events are not automatically collected, but require a report to be filed to VAERS. VAERS reports can be submitted voluntarily by anyone, including healthcare providers, patients, or family members. Reports vary in quality and completeness. They often lack details and sometimes can have information that contains errors."

 

You obviously believe the data is significant, despite the limitations cited by VAERS itself.

 

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html

 

You can't have it both ways, the .gov suffix says it is government funded, and you've already posted your distrust of authority.

 

[rattlesnake]

57 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This one?

 

Fact check: Reports of adverse events due to COVID-19 vaccines are unverified

 

VAERS reports unverified As USA TODAY has previously reported, reports in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, commonly known as VAERS, are not proof of widespread serious side effects or death due to the COVID-19 vaccines.

 

VAERS reports are unverified, and the CDC says on its website that the database "is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event." If public health officials detect a reporting pattern, they conduct follow-up studies to determine whether a vaccine was to blame.

 

"I can get a COVID vaccine and my dog gets hit by a car – I can make that report and it will show up in the database," Salmon said. "It does not mean that my getting a COVID vaccine caused my dog to get hit by a car."

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/01/05/fact-check-1-million-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-events-unverified/9103381002/

"I can get a COVID vaccine and my dog gets hit by a car – I can make that report and it will show up in the database," Salmon said. "It does not mean that my getting a COVID vaccine caused my dog to get hit by a car."

 

Right, and that is a typical VAERS entry of course. Ridiculous!

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

"I can get a COVID vaccine and my dog gets hit by a car – I can make that report and it will show up in the database," Salmon said. "It does not mean that my getting a COVID vaccine caused my dog to get hit by a car."

 

Right, and that is a typical VAERS entry of course. Ridiculous!

It's called a reductio ad absurdum,  perhaps you are unfamiliar with that line of argument. The Romans were using it more than 2000 years ago to demonstrate the falsity of a proposition, try to keep up.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

"I can get a COVID vaccine and my dog gets hit by a car – I can make that report and it will show up in the database," Salmon said. "It does not mean that my getting a COVID vaccine caused my dog to get hit by a car."

 

Right, and that is a typical VAERS entry of course. Ridiculous!

Yep agreed, shows just how unreliable the data can be but then it does say so itself if people bothered to actually read it.

 

VAERS allows anyone to submit a report on any possible reaction after the vaccine, and has clear disclaimers that reports may “contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable.”

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-142387100461

 

The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html

[onthedarkside]

A post making a claim not supported by its own weblinked source has been removed.