New vs used Calb batteries

[Pink7]

Used Calb batteries (the blue type) is now around 30k for 16 x 200Ah.

New 16 pcs CATL 280Ah from China (trusted seller, Jenny Wu from Docan Tech) to Thailand (Thailand Special Line, taxes eyc included) , the cost is 16*105+383 Delivery =USD 2016 or THB73K. Adjusted for difference in nominal Ah around double the price for new. When i checked a few months ago delivery was near USD 500 + fees ( customs etc.)

 

What is the experience with the used calb? what actual Ah to expect and any idea about expected life time? 

So the big questions is what to choose?

 

Pink

 

 

[BritManToo]

28 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

What is the experience with the used calb? what actual Ah to expect and any idea about expected life time? 

My 16x 200ah CalB store about 5kWhr (usable storage) and cost about 30kbht (complete) ....... not worthwhile IMHO. I had to buy 18 to get 16 that actually worked OK.

 

If I had my time over I'd buy new, probably this one ........

https://www.lazada.co.th//products/i2393934477-s8157207174.html

 

I'll sell you my CalB (inc BMS) for 25kbht if you want to try.

 

I also built another 48V battery using the green Sinopoly 100ah batteries.

That is even worse, only about 2kWhr (usable), and I needed to buy 20 to get 16 that worked. I'd sell this for 12k (inc BMS).

 

Essentially I'd sell either of my s/h batteries for less than I paid, or you could buy. I have no reason to think the batteries I purchased are any worse (or better) than you could buy from Lazada/Shopee.

Wish I'd bought new!

Edited August 29, 2022 by BritManToo

[Pink7]

29 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My 16x 200ah CalB store about 5kWhr (usable storage) and cost about 30kbht (complete) ....... not worthwhile IMHO. I had to buy 18 to get 16 that actually worked OK.

 

If I had my time over I'd buy new, probably this one ........

https://www.lazada.co.th//products/i2393934477-s8157207174.html

 

I'll sell you my CalB (inc BMS) for 25kbht if you want to try.

 

I also built another 48V battery using the green Sinopoly 100ah batteries.

That is even worse, only about 2kWhr (usable), and I needed to buy 20 to get 16 that worked. I'd sell this for 12k (inc BMS).

 

Essentially I'd sell either of my s/h batteries for less than I paid, or you could buy. I have no reason to think the batteries I purchased are any worse (or better) than you could buy from Lazada/Shopee.

Wish I'd bought new!

Thanks for that info BritManToo that was useful info.  I also found much good and useful info in your solar build tread.

 

Pink

[Crossy]

Our used CALB "golf cart" cells are doing a bit better than @BritManToo units, we can get about 8kWh in/out if I push them, but they are definitely well worn.

 

Used cells are always going to be a lottery, but new 100Ah (5kWh) packs imported from China are still north of 60k when all the extras are included.

 

EDIT Note that the pack linked to by @BritManToo is Li-ion not LiFePO4. I'm not sure a used Li-ion pack is something I would want in my home/garage due to the possibility of thermal runaway if one cell gets over-charged.

 

 

 

 

[Pink7]

7 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Our used CALB "golf cart" cells are doing a bit better than @BritManToo units, we can get about 8kWh in/out if I push them, but they are definitely well worn.

 

Used cells are always going to be a lottery, but new 100Ah packs imported from China are still north of 60k when all the extras are included.

 

 

 

I guess 16 x 280Ah USD 105 each +383 Delivery (Thailand Special Line) =USD 2016 or THB73K is not to bad. 

 

 

Pink

Edited August 29, 2022 by Pink7

[BritManToo]

24 minutes ago, Crossy said:

EDIT Note that the pack linked to by @BritManToo is Li-ion not LiFePO4. I'm not sure a used Li-ion pack is something I would want in my home/garage due to the possibility of thermal runaway if one cell gets over-charged.

The pack I linked to has new cells. 

[Crossy]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The pack I linked to has new cells. 

 

That's a good price then IF they really are new of course.

 

[Crossy]

A word of warning, not all "48V" packs are equal.

 

Absolutely do not try mixing a 16S LiFePO4 pack in parallel with a 14S Li-ion pack.

 

[Pink7]

42 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Our used CALB "golf cart" cells are doing a bit better than @BritManToo units, we can get about 8kWh in/out if I push them, but they are definitely well worn.

 

Used cells are always going to be a lottery, but new 100Ah (5kWh) packs imported from China are still north of 60k when all the extras are included.

 

EDIT Note that the pack linked to by @BritManToo is Li-ion not LiFePO4. I'm not sure a used Li-ion pack is something I would want in my home/garage due to the possibility of thermal runaway if one cell gets over-charged.

 

 

 

 

So your getting 166ah from the 200ah battery? Same seller also sell the black batteries seen on Lazada: Sinopoly 3.2V 200 Ah Prismatic Solar Pack with plastic shell USD 36

 

Pink

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Pink7

[Crossy]

14 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

So your getting 166ah from the 200ah battery? Same seller also sell the black batteries seen on Lazada: Sinopoly 3.2V 200 Ah Prismatic Solar Pack with plastic shell USD 36

 

U mean Jenny or someone else? Got a link?? That's crazy cheap even for used cells.

[Pink7]

13 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

U mean Jenny or someone else? Got a link?? That's crazy cheap even for used cells.

I have not discuss this price, i only see it:

Sinopoly

280a new CATL

 

Pink

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

A word of warning, not all "48V" packs are equal.

 

Absolutely do not try mixing a 16S LiFePO4 pack in parallel with a 14S Li-ion pack.

 

As long as both packs had their own BMS, and you connected them when both reading the same voltage, I can't see a problem. 

[Crossy]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

As long as both packs had their own BMS, and you connected them when both reading the same voltage, I can't see a problem. 

 

If you do try it please do it outside in a well ventilated area.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

If you do try it please do it outside in a well ventilated area.

Do you also think it's dangerous to connect a nuke power station and a coal fired power station to the same grid? 

[Crossy]

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Do you also think it's dangerous to connect a nuke power station and a coal fired power station to the same grid? 

 

And now we are getting silly.

 

Please feel free to connect whatever you like to whatever else you like.

 

There's a thread on another forum about mixed Li-ion and LiFePO4 packs. Nope, nothing bad happened but it was a controlled test with small packs rather than a continuously operating system.

 

[Photoguy21]

From China and you would expect quality? China cant spell quality let alone know what it is.

[sezze]

There's now plenty of sellers selling NMC new cells for very good price ( +/-2600 for 200+ Ah ) . These NMC cells deliver 3.7V per cell , so only 7 needed for 24V and 14 for 48V . These are supposed to have shorter lifetime cycle as Lifepo4 , but since they are new , you know what you are getting .

[Pink7]

6 minutes ago, sezze said:

There's now plenty of sellers selling NMC new cells for very good price ( +/-2600 for 200+ Ah ) . These NMC cells deliver 3.7V per cell , so only 7 needed for 24V and 14 for 48V . These are supposed to have shorter lifetime cycle as Lifepo4 , but since they are new , you know what you are getting .

You have any link?

 

Pink

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

You have any link?

 

Pink

https://www.lazada.co.th//products/i3309043879-s12261992241.html

Although as @Crossy mentioned earlier, hard to tell if new or s/h.

Same for the 'new' cells from China, new, s/h or factory rejects, hard to tell.

Edited August 29, 2022 by BritManToo

[sezze]

16 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

You have any link?

 

Pink

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/1-lithium-iron-nmc-37v-234ah-3-i3899803114-s15012281246.html?

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/nmc37v106ah-1-i2776026123.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.30.653db5dfCedzSu

Just type in NMC and use google translate if they mention new or not . If they not specific say "1st hand new" but just grade A , consider them 2nd hand . The 2 mentioned i found in 1 minute ...

[sezze]

Just now, sezze said:

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/1-lithium-iron-nmc-37v-234ah-3-i3899803114-s15012281246.html?

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/nmc37v106ah-1-i2776026123.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.30.653db5dfCedzSu

Just type in NMC and use google translate if they mention new or not . If they not specific say "1st hand new" but just grade A , consider them 2nd hand . The 2 mentioned i found in 1 minute ...

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/nmc-37-v-180a-i2853987049-s10408841059.html?

[Muhendis]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

EDIT Note that the pack linked to by @BritManToo is Li-ion not LiFePO4. I'm not sure a used Li-ion pack is something I would want in my home/garage due to the possibility of thermal runaway if one cell gets over-charged.

It's actually worse than that because the Li-ion pack uses NMC chemistry which has a lower self ignition temperature.

NMC 48V153AH 7.9KW SMART BMS can be set, can sleep, ask before ordering, assembled products, please inquire.

Also, mixing this chemistry battery with a LiFePO4 battery could cause charging problems because of the slightly different voltages.

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, Muhendis said:

It's actually worse than that because the Li-ion pack uses NMC chemistry which has a lower self ignition temperature.

NMC 48V153AH 7.9KW SMART BMS can be set, can sleep, ask before ordering, assembled products, please inquire.

Also, mixing this chemistry battery with a LiFePO4 battery could cause charging problems because of the slightly different voltages.

 

At least the cells are new.

 

Nothing wrong with these packs (although I wouldn't have one in the house, even a new one) just avoid mixing them with other chemistries.

[Sophon]

2 hours ago, Pink7 said:

I have not discuss this price, i only see it:

Sinopoly

280a new CATL

 

Pink

Why pay USD 36 for a 200AH battery, when you can get a 280AH battery for USD 20 from the same seller:

 

The seller seems to be genuine and has very good reviews, but there is definitely something funky going on with some of their pricing.

[Pink7]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

U mean Jenny or someone else? Got a link?? That's crazy cheap even for used cells.

$35 +$24 delivery pr piece ($383/16) is $59 or TB2100+ per piece delivered, So maybe not so cheap.

 

Pink

[Pink7]

I see ready battery banks do not cost much more than 16 new battery,, Also something to think about. 

 

Pink

Edited August 30, 2022 by Pink7

[Pink7]

From the info i see your guys share on used batteries the sellers online on Lazada and Shopee listing the Nominal Ah on batteries and not the real, so maybe can expect 60% effective Ah?  

 

When it comes to battery banks its some big plus and minuses. The seller who sold me Growatt inverters do also sell a battery bank who they also claim can communicate with my Inverters. How much of a plus that is i dont know. Maybe complicate to maintain in future compared to a diy setup? Price is $2300+ shipping.

 

Pink

 

[Pink7]

Currently I'm most positive to get 32 x 230Ah ($86each)  who seems to be best value who bring me near needed volume: 2P16s : 460Ah: 48V: 22kw. 

 

 

 

Pink

[Crossy]

Jenny / Docan have a very good reputation on other alternative energy fora, you could do a lot worse!

 

[Pink7]

8 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Jenny / Docan have a very good reputation on other alternative energy fora, you could do a lot worse!

 

Yes and she can send with Thailand Special Line who seems to be a big plus ( means big saving). Regarding Battery banks i think to complicated for the long term maintained. If  BMS issue with a diy pack just change it, with a battery bank i guess that's a whole other story if get a BMS issue or other technical issue.

 

Pink

Edited August 31, 2022 by Pink7