Fourth COVID vaccine shot substantially reduces risk of pneumonitis and death

[PremiumLane]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:10 PM, starky said:

Wow! Cool! Imagine how good the 10th one will be...that should cure everything 

What is it with people moaning about stuff like this? It is almost like you don't understand how vaccines and viruses work.

[PremiumLane]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:10 PM, starky said:

Wow! Cool! Imagine how good the 10th one will be...that should cure everything 

What is it with people moaning about stuff like this? It is almost like you don't understand how vaccines and viruses work.

[Eleftheros]

16 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

What is it with people moaning about stuff like this? It is almost like you don't understand how vaccines and viruses work.

Well, I think most people understand how vaccines like the poliomyelitis vaccine work.

 

They take years to develop, are trialled on several millions of people, and the trial results are made publicly available before the vaccines are approved. The inventor gives the patents for the vaccine away free and makes no profit.

 

You get a set series of shots while you are young, and thereafter you do not catch the virus or transmit it to anybody else.

[starky]

32 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

What is it with people moaning about stuff like this? It is almost like you don't understand how vaccines and viruses work.

Never had a flu vaccine in my life. Had 2 covids and forced to have a 3rd due to the nature of my industry. You wanna keep having covid vaccines every 6 months forever be my guest. I'll let my immune system have a crack. Cheers. And how was I moaning? Lol. You do think Pfizer, moderna et al have a vested interest in selling more vacs? 

Edited September 5, 2022 by starky

[onthedarkside]

A comment on moderation and COViD misinformation post has been removed, along with several ensuing replies.

 

[Photoguy21]

1 hour ago, MrJ2U said:

The problem is getting on your hands then touching your face.

 

Your right it's spread mainly by areosals 

 

Washing hands isn't really a priority unfortunately in Issan. 

 

 

• "People may also become infected when touching their eyes, nose or mouth after touching surfaces or objects that have been contaminated by the virus."
• "The  virus can spread from an infected person’s mouth or nose in small liquid particles when they cough, sneeze, speak, sing or breathe. Another person can then contract the virus when infectious particles that pass through the air are inhaled at short range (this is often called short-range aerosol or short-range airborne transmission)"

https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-how-is-it-transmitted

 

How do they know they caught it as it is air borne?

[Bkk Brian]

17 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

How do they know they caught it as it is air borne?

Because droplets also fall down onto surfaces. Although of course airborne is where the majority of infection comes from

 

Omicron may hang around longer on surfaces than original virus, early findings suggest

Fresh research says Omicron lasts much longer on surfaces than other variants

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Because droplets also fall down onto surfaces. Although of course airborne is where the majority of infection comes from

 

Omicron may hang around longer on surfaces than original virus, early findings suggest

Fresh research says Omicron lasts much longer on surfaces than other variants

 

Brian, as far as I can recall, most of the research I've read on this subject has found that yes, they can identify elements of the virus surviving on surfaces for varying periods of time... BUT... typically, what they find on surfaces doesn't end up being something that can be cultured into a replicating virus.

 

Have you seen anything newer or recent on that?  While I'm all in favor of being cautious, I do think the surfaces risk has been overblown, particularly in Thailand. And I can't think of any documented case I've read about where typical public surface-to-hand contamination resulted in COVID infections...

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Brian, as far as I can recall, most of the research I've read on this subject has found that yes, they can identify elements of the virus surviving on surfaces for varying periods of time... BUT... typically, what they find on surfaces doesn't end up being something that can be cultured into a replicating virus.

 

Have you seen anything newer or recent on that?  While I'm all in favor of being cautious, I do think the surfaces risk has been overblown, particularly in Thailand. And I can't think of any documented case I've read about where typical public surface-to-hand contamination resulted in COVID infections...

 

 

No I'm with you, in regards to children however it may be a little different in classrooms as colds can often be picked up through indirect contact on surfaces so that would also probably be the case for covid.

[MrJ2U]

2 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

How do they know they caught it as it is air borne?

I don't know.

 

They can it detect on surfaces.  Someone touched that contaminated surface.

 

Bacteria and viruses are very good at infecting thier hosts.  

 

Main entry ways on your face.  Ears, eyes, nose, and mouth.

 

"Studies have found that people touch their faces more than 16 times in an hour."

 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-to-not-touch-your-face#:~:text=Your eyes and mouth are,between washings are extremely high.

Edited September 5, 2022 by MrJ2U

[starky]

On 9/4/2022 at 11:57 PM, rattlesnake said:

From your article:

Although Sweden was hit hard by the first wave, its total excess deaths during the first two years of the pandemic were actually among the lowest in Europe. The decision to keep primary schools open also paid off. The incidence of severe acute Covid in children has been low, and a recent study showed that Swedish children didn’t suffer the learning loss seen in many other countries.

 

Yeah cherry picking data is always a go to on this forum. Generally within out reading all of the source material. 

[PremiumLane]

17 hours ago, Eleftheros said:

Well, I think most people understand how vaccines like the poliomyelitis vaccine work.

 

They take years to develop, are trialled on several millions of people, and the trial results are made publicly available before the vaccines are approved. The inventor gives the patents for the vaccine away free and makes no profit.

 

You get a set series of shots while you are young, and thereafter you do not catch the virus or transmit it to anybody else.

So you don't understand how they work then.

 

You do understand that the covid-19 vaccines were developed from previous vaccine tech? That we had already been studying viruses like Covid? That as it was a global issue a lot of money and time was poured into their development, so it was not like development of a normal vaccine - I mean did you think about that?

 

And you do know it was throughly tested, right?

Also, do you understand how viruses mutate? Why do you think there is a different flu vaccine every year? And that every virus is different... I mean you basically made my point with what you wrote. 

[PremiumLane]

17 hours ago, starky said:

Never had a flu vaccine in my life. Had 2 covids and forced to have a 3rd due to the nature of my industry. You wanna keep having covid vaccines every 6 months forever be my guest. I'll let my immune system have a crack. Cheers. And how was I moaning? Lol. You do think Pfizer, moderna et al have a vested interest in selling more vacs? 

boo hoo - and again, someone else who doesn't understand vaccines - Jesus wept, they help boost your immune system.... education has failed some people. 

 

And your second argument is for nationalisation of pharma, good, let's do it. 

[Photoguy21]

17 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Because droplets also fall down onto surfaces. Although of course airborne is where the majority of infection comes from

 

Omicron may hang around longer on surfaces than original virus, early findings suggest

Fresh research says Omicron lasts much longer on surfaces than other variants

So in reality it is an insignificant risk.

[Photoguy21]

15 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

I don't know.

 

They can it detect on surfaces.  Someone touched that contaminated surface.

 

Bacteria and viruses are very good at infecting thier hosts.  

 

Main entry ways on your face.  Ears, eyes, nose, and mouth.

 

"Studies have found that people touch their faces more than 16 times in an hour."

 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-to-not-touch-your-face#:~:text=Your eyes and mouth are,between washings are extremely high.

They are also good at dying when removed from their natural habitat. Infection by touch, whilst possible is insignificant at least it is if you believe virologists.

[placeholder]

On 9/4/2022 at 10:57 PM, rattlesnake said:

From your article:

Although Sweden was hit hard by the first wave, its total excess deaths during the first two years of the pandemic were actually among the lowest in Europe. The decision to keep primary schools open also paid off. The incidence of severe acute Covid in children has been low, and a recent study showed that Swedish children didn’t suffer the learning loss seen in many other countries.

 

A more valid comparison would be to compare Sweden's performance to that of its Nordic neighbors: Norway, Finland, and Denmark. Particularly the first 2 since Denmark is far more densely populated.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/sweden

Edited September 6, 2022 by placeholder

[rattlesnake]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

A more valid comparison would be to compare Sweden's performance to that of its Nordic neighbors: Norway, Finland, and Denmark. Particularly the first 2 since Denmark is far more densely populated.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/sweden

FYI this is 2022 and it is pretty much agreed upon that public health agencies handled this crisis really badly. The public trust in them has never been so low and those like you who still defend them no matter what are a minority.

[placeholder]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

FYI this is 2022 and it is pretty much agreed upon that public health agencies handled this crisis really badly. The public trust in them has never been so low and those like you who still defend them no matter what are a minority.

 Just for a change, why not try addressing the facts raised rather than resorting to an all-purpose rant.

[transam]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

FYI this is 2022 and it is pretty much agreed upon that public health agencies handled this crisis really badly. The public trust in them has never been so low and those like you who still defend them no matter what are a minority.

Even though their lives were saved by jabs..................? 

PS. I think your drum is just about worn out....????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

25 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

FYI this is 2022 and it is pretty much agreed upon that public health agencies handled this crisis really badly. The public trust in them has never been so low and those like you who still defend them no matter what are a minority.

Funny how every time anti-vaxers want to try to criticize agencies like the CDC, they end up dredging up studies or commentary by ECONOMISTS...

 

Though as in your case, neither you nor The Hill article the guy wrote make it clear the guy's field of expertise has nothing to do with either public health or COVID, though he does have a background in hospital finance.

 

"Carl J. Schramm is an internationally recognized leader in entrepreneurship, innovation and economic growth."

 

https://ischool.syr.edu/carl-schramm/

 

"Carl J Schramm is an American economist, entrepreneur, author"

 

"Schramm is recognized internationally as a leading authority on innovation, entrepreneurship and economic growth."

 

https://carlschramm.com/about-me/

 

Next time I need advise or expertise about the COVID pandemic, I'm sure he WON'T be the first person I'll ask!

 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Funny how every time anti-vaxers want to try to criticize agencies like the CDC, they end up dredging up studies or commentary by ECONOMISTS...

 

Though as in your case, neither you nor The Hill article make it clear the guy's field of expertise has nothing to do with either public health or COVID, though he does have a background in hospital finance.

 

"Carl J. Schramm is an internationally recognized leader in entrepreneurship, innovation and economic growth."

 

https://ischool.syr.edu/carl-schramm/

 

"Carl J Schramm is an American economist, entrepreneur, author"

 

"Schramm is recognized internationally as a leading authority on innovation, entrepreneurship and economic growth."

 

https://carlschramm.com/about-me/

 

Next time I need advise or expertise about the COVID pandemic, I'm sure he WON'T be the first person I'll ask!

 

 

Actually, i was thinking of locating a virologist to be my investment counselor.

[rattlesnake]

29 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 Just for a change, why not try addressing the facts raised rather than resorting to an all-purpose rant.

Plenty of facts in that article, how about reading it?

[rattlesnake]

28 minutes ago, transam said:

Even though their lives were saved by jabs..................? 

PS. I think your drum is just about worn out....????

This particular exchange was about lockdowns and their consequences.

[rattlesnake]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Funny how every time anti-vaxers want to try to criticize agencies like the CDC, they end up dredging up studies or commentary by ECONOMISTS...

 

Though as in your case, neither you nor The Hill article the guy wrote make it clear the guy's field of expertise has nothing to do with either public health or COVID, though he does have a background in hospital finance.

 

"Carl J. Schramm is an internationally recognized leader in entrepreneurship, innovation and economic growth."

 

https://ischool.syr.edu/carl-schramm/

 

"Carl J Schramm is an American economist, entrepreneur, author"

 

"Schramm is recognized internationally as a leading authority on innovation, entrepreneurship and economic growth."

 

https://carlschramm.com/about-me/

 

Next time I need advise or expertise about the COVID pandemic, I'm sure he WON'T be the first person I'll ask!

 

 

An economist seems quite fitting to comment and assess the economic consequences of lockdowns.

 

One of the numerous points raised in the article you didn't read is the fact that a poll revealed growing defiance of Americans towards the CDC.

 

As always, you're looking for ways to disqualify the author rather than address and debate the content.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The CDC has faced numerous challenges during the pandemic.... including but not limited to:

 

--political interference by political appointees during the Trump  Admin., and misinformation by the president himself.

--underfunding and underinvestment in capabilities to respond to emerging threats.

--and the changing/shifting scientific realities that occurred as the coronavirus surfaced and then continued mutating.

 

That said, the CDC recognizes it can and needs to do better, hence the recent developments:

 

In an effort to address its missteps during Covid, CDC plans an ‘ambitious’ agency overhaul

Aug. 17, 2022

 

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, an agency that has had its reputation battered by a series of missteps in the Covid-19 pandemic, and a slow response to the monkeypox outbreak, will undergo an “ambitious” overhaul, Director Rochelle Walensky announced Wednesday.

 

In an email to staff, Walensky said the renewal effort will focus on making the agency more nimble and responsive to needs that arise in health emergencies. The priority will be to gather data that can be used to rapidly dispense public health guidance, rather than craft scientific papers."

 

(more)

 

https://www.statnews.com/2022/08/17/cdc-ambitious-overhaul-covid-missteps/

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

25 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

One of the numerous points raised in the article you didn't read is the fact that a poll revealed growing defiance of Americans towards the CDC.

I did read the entire opinion piece, and suffice to say, I believe a lot of the negative public attitudes toward the CDC have been pushed by, and reside in, the anti-vax, COVID denying/minimizing right-wing and their mountains of COVID and vaccine related misinformation.

 

Note that it's at least in part Republicans in Congress right now who have been blocking additional funding allocations to buy more COVID medications, test kits, even the new vaccines.

 

"The Biden administration purchased 171 million doses of Pfizer and Moderna's updated vaccines this summer, but only after reallocating about $5 billion in funds intended for other pandemic resources. Amid resistance from Republicans, Congress failed to reach a deal on supplemental funding and so in June, the Biden administration's top health officials decided they needed to find another way."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/31/politics/joe-biden-booster-shots/index.html

 

That meant having to halt the federal program offering free at-home COVID test kits, pull funds for Personal Protective Equipment and reduce funds to promote the use of the new vaccines, among other redirections.

 

"The funding trade-off also means that it will might be harder for the US to detect and slow transmission in the fall and winter months as testing will likely become more scarce once again. "

 

Can't lay this one at the doorstep of the CDC. Rather, it's politics and federal lawmakers who believe in bogus stuff like ivermectin.

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Plenty of facts in that article, how about reading it?

That article has offers on evidence that Sweden fared well without resorting to strict measures. 

 

And it's indicative of the quality of the article you linked to that it cited a paper by 3 right wing economists. It's been substantially trashed by epidemiologists. Among other flaws, it changed the definition of lockdown to a very lax one to get the desired result.

Fact check: Working paper isn't proof COVID-19 restrictions don't work, experts say

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/02/18/fact-check-working-paper-isnt-proof-lockdown-dont-work-experts-say/6749032001/

[cmsally]

On 9/4/2022 at 12:39 PM, Neeranam said:

Not sure to get another vaccine or not. 

I have health issues after Covid but not sure if they were caused by the vaccine or if the vaccine made the issues less serious.

Read some of the articles on Covid and vitamin B12 deficiency. Long Covid seems to have similar symptoms to Pernicious Anaemia. I haven't had Covid but I did get this from the vaccine. Bear in mind it will take about 2 months for the Vitamin B12 to kick in if you start taking daily supplements.

[onthedarkside]

A post with numerous entirely unsourced claims has been removed.