Schools In Chiang Mai .... Aany Advice

[keddy]

Most of all I want them to have fun and remember their time in school with fondness not as a hothouse to produce serious little business people.

I've never been able to think of school as anything but a brainwashing factory with a little practical learning thrown in to justify the whole dreary experience. Almost everything worthwhile that I learned was from reading books on my own.

Glad that sh*t's over!

Snap! My thoughts exactly but I hope my daughter will have a happier experience. As a teacher at least I learnt how not to teach kids and how sensitive you have to be when you do this job. Some of the idiots/sadists/ dullards I encountered in England still make me shudder when I think about them.

[jomama]

Yes, clear cut clarification would be great, but this reminds me of the arguments over which TEFL school is best. Nobody's been to all of them; nobody has a statistically valid sample. A fistfight and a death threat do not define either campus; most students don't get car-sick going up a mountain. Even the most fervent evangelicals cannot convert some students; they're not that smart, usually. A friend of mine is an ESL tutor and has students at three of the schools, but she can't draw conclusions based on those few examples.

Good post.

[thaiwholesale]

There is also Wicharawit school , my son is staying there ,many look kruengs as well. First term with some additional costs for entry etc was about 16k all together . This school is at Chang Klang road . Also Dara school (cristian) is a very good school as well , costs slightly more expensive I guess , but similar prices . Both have classes until 12th grade , wicharawit's matayom( grade 7-12) is moved next to Carrefour. I think for payable shools there are best next.

My experience with Wacharawit is that after 2 years and 1 year there a normal government school will not accept them.

I think that Chiang mai Christian is a better and less expensive option.

Anybody have information in Montfort or varre or others?

[hanuman1]

There is also Wicharawit school , my son is staying there ,many look kruengs as well. First term with some additional costs for entry etc was about 16k all together . This school is at Chang Klang road . Also Dara school (cristian) is a very good school as well , costs slightly more expensive I guess , but similar prices . Both have classes until 12th grade , wicharawit's matayom( grade 7-12) is moved next to Carrefour. I think for payable shools there are best next.

My experience with Wacharawit is that after 2 years and 1 year there a normal government school will not accept them.

I think that Chiang mai Christian is a better and less expensive option.

Anybody have information in Montfort or varre or others?

Hi

If by 'Chiang Mai Christian' you are referring to that place on the banks of the Ping River, I would suggest that you don't bother. We went to have a look there and the classrooms have all the ambience of a prison. and an old prison at that. i believe it is also run by 'religion converters' who evidently don't seem to put much faith in the powers of investment.

Our daughter now goes to Varee on Mahidol road. It looks great and they've just finished building a spanking new wing with swimming pool and other facilities. 20,000 - 30,000 per term depending on which grade. be aware, though, that they prefer kids who already have some proficiency with both Thai and English languages (probably makes their job easier).

hope this helps

H.

[tijnebijn]

The posts are very conflicting an d confusing? So what International school does not brainwash with religion and gives children a good education in Chiang Mai, as you all cannot seem to agree on this...

Clarification would be nice.

Thanks CC

Yes, clear cut clarification would be great, but this reminds me of the arguments over which TEFL school is best. Nobody's been to all of them; nobody has a statistically valid sample. A fistfight and a death threat do not define either campus; most students don't get car-sick going up a mountain. Even the most fervent evangelicals cannot convert some students; they're not that smart, usually. A friend of mine is an ESL tutor and has students at three of the schools, but she can't draw conclusions based on those few examples.

If you can afford CMIS or Prem, maybe you should follow the money. If all that matters is spreading the gospel, there's Grace. If you don't mind a school owned by Muslims, Wichai Wittayi (sp?) is good. They won't suddenly become good Buddhists if you put them in a Thai school, either.

If the classes are too large they will certainly become aquainted with the first noble truth in government schools. Seriously though I want my kids to know the country they were born in and there's more chance of that happening in a government school than an International school, especially one with the albatross of the Judeo-Christian tradition being carried in the curriculum. Most of all I want them to have fun and remember their time in school with fondness not as a hothouse to produce serious little business people.

I totally agree , life is too serious on itself allready . I understand a good education is important but to push them and make the childs world being a must be rich succesful attitude . I do not know but thats not what I think is the most important thing we could give to our children ......

[tijnebijn]

There is also Wicharawit school , my son is staying there ,many look kruengs as well. First term with some additional costs for entry etc was about 16k all together . This school is at Chang Klang road . Also Dara school (cristian) is a very good school as well , costs slightly more expensive I guess , but similar prices . Both have classes until 12th grade , wicharawit's matayom( grade 7-12) is moved next to Carrefour. I think for payable shools there are best next.

My experience with Wacharawit is that after 2 years and 1 year there a normal government school will not accept them.

I think that Chiang mai Christian is a better and less expensive option.

Anybody have information in Montfort or varre or others?

What do you mean with a normal government school will not accept them ?

Monfort is more expensive then WAcharawit and is for boys only , I personally prefer mixed .

What made you think the above mentioned is so bad ? I would appreciate a deeper answer for your experience .

[PeaceBlondie]

Agreeing: I cannot imagine a private school that would teach so poorly that after a few years, a normal Thai govt. school would not accept them. Assuming, of course, the student speaks Thai fluently.

[thaiwholesale]

Varee, what is your experience there? They have an English program similar to Wichai Wittaya or not?

Dara is christian also what is your experience here?

Yupparaj what is your experience here?

Chiang mai Christian, maybe the design of the school windows ect is not good, but it looks like the kits love the school and learn a lot more than other places with out it is over religious. But maybe not like expensive private schools or prem.

Montfort: are you sure it is only for boys? If that is the case than that is not an alternative for my daughter.

Wachirawit: 5 years ago p1 basically not learned anything.

After move to government school where there was no different in the learning level, moved to an other government school and than to chiang mai Christian where it looks like he improve a lot.

also p3 and p4 or p4 and p5 than moved to a government school and after 5 months fall out of school (been in class with some “bad” friends at the new school).

And yes the government schools have all been negative to accept them because of their skill level, and very surprised that they have been in Wachirawit and not learned more.

The youngest of them had to take p3 2 times to get in the new school other ways they will not accept him.

[cmsally]

Montfort: are you sure it is only for boys? If that is the case than that is not an alternative for my daughter.

Montfort take girls from M3 onwards only.

For Thai schools , one of the better girls schools is Regina Coeli, but as far as I know they don't have an English program but they may do now.

[ihop]

Varee Chiang Mai School off Mahidol Rd. is fairly new (2003, but started in 1976 as a Kindergarten). They offer an ESL Program, Bilingual Program, and English Program depending on your child's proficiency level. I believe the ESL Program is about 20k and the BP program about 30k, not sure how much the EP program runs but it is the more comprehensive of the three (and cost more). The facilities are modern and expanding. Onsite parking is good and access off Mahidol is fairly quick.

Mrs. Varee seems very hands on with the running of the school she started. After a parent orientation she was very approachable to our questions and made sure they were answered. I'd suggest you drop by the VCS admin office for a brochure and tour of the campus. Be sure to ask for a copy of the pink student handbook which is in both Thai and English. I found the handbook to be more helpful than the brochure.

As I recall, the glossy brochure was not free...cost 200 baht because it includes an application and entrance test fee. Just ask for the pink handbook if you don't want to pay the fee just yet. This is our kid's first term there and so far we are pleased.

The one thing I wish they would include in their brochure and/or website is their fee structure like most of the Int. schools. Or at least have a handout with the fees at the admin office available upon request. It would have been very helpful in our decision making.

http://www.varee.ac.th/thai/

Edited July 13, 2007 by ihop

[ihop]

I have a five year old daughter, next year I want to send her to a good Thai school and I'm having trouble deciding. I have looked at many schools, and kind of decided on Anubaan Chiang Mai or Prince Royal College, both or these school require you to make an application and if successful you then need to dip your hand in a bag and hope you get the right colour counter to be accepted. It's about a 50/50 chance. I don't have enough money to send her to a 100,000bht. per term Inter. school and I'm a bit worried about this lotto style application. Anyone have any use advice or tips?

Our daughter took a required entrance/proficiency test at Varee back in Dec 2006 for the current term which started in May. She was accepted to Varee but a former classmate of hers was not. Looking at the posted list...it appeared only about six new students were accepted into her grade. However, the whole list was in Thai so I'm not 100% certain on that. Anyways, not aware of any lotto-style application process at Varee.

[MJK]

Our children also goes to Varee, started about one year ago. Our native language is not english or Thai but boys speak Thai well, reading and writing is not so good yet.

First both of them were in kindergarten and this semester older one started the first grade at school. He started in ESL program, but we wished he would study more English, so he changed to the English program. The other reason for that was that now we parents can communicate with the teachers better and help our son with home work.

Our son speak some basic English and he was accepted to the English program after a "test week". Test week was because he is quite active little boy and teachers said that in the EP-program he has to study a little bit harder..but he did well and we are all very happy now. English skills are progressing fast and teachers are great! School is new and clean, good places to play sports etc.

[tijnebijn]

Varee, what is your experience there? They have an English program similar to Wichai Wittaya or not?

Dara is christian also what is your experience here?

Yupparaj what is your experience here?

Chiang mai Christian, maybe the design of the school windows ect is not good, but it looks like the kits love the school and learn a lot more than other places with out it is over religious. But maybe not like expensive private schools or prem.

Montfort: are you sure it is only for boys? If that is the case than that is not an alternative for my daughter.

Wachirawit: 5 years ago p1 basically not learned anything.

After move to government school where there was no different in the learning level, moved to an other government school and than to chiang mai Christian where it looks like he improve a lot.

also p3 and p4 or p4 and p5 than moved to a government school and after 5 months fall out of school (been in class with some “bad” friends at the new school).

And yes the government schools have all been negative to accept them because of their skill level, and very surprised that they have been in Wachirawit and not learned more.

The youngest of them had to take p3 2 times to get in the new school other ways they will not accept him.

I am sorry but my experience with Wicharawit is not bad at all . the children seem very happy , they also have a new english program and in my understanding they are working hard to take their name and level up . Probably because of so many other private schools . Don't forget when children stay at Anubaan and p1 that the learning activity is similar and basic only . Now that your child is getting older her learning abilities increaces and I do not think this has anything to do with the teaching abilities of this school in particular , when she stayed there in the early years .

I do not think the level of private schools is less then government schools , other wise I would like to know if or how children from government schools would do it when changing to a private one , I think they even have more problems then backwise.

But that is just my opinion . For instance on government schools they barely can speak any word of english .....so.......

[thaiwholesale]

So Varee have good experience, what about other schools

[registeredfalang]

One major consideration [iMHO] in choosing a school would be locaton... do you want your kid to spend 3 hrs a day on a hot school bus commuting to and from school, lots of kids do that just because their parents want them to go to a snotty hi-so school. good training for the real world or just plain torture for the kids if the bus is not aircon as most are not.

If you live in the San Kampheng area, I would highly recomend Suandek school...it's a well known nursery school that started out in CM, but they expanded their campus out to SK. Cozy upper middle class school that now goes to P6 now and is expanding yearly, small student/teacher ratio, run by a member of the royal family, beautiful campus, reasonable tuition, and native english speaking teacher for english but other classes are in thai. My two kids 7&9yrs are happy with it and we are too.

I would call it the middle road between the govmt schools and the international schools. PM me if interested and i'll send contact details.

[richard10365]

I use to teach at Prince Royal's College (PRC). They are trying to move their type of instruction to Brain Based Learning (BBL). Currently, I believe the lower and upper pratoms are learning via brain based learning. The biggest advantage I can see to this is the class size was reduced from 50 to 30 students in a class.

I'm really not sure what BBL is because I stopped teaching there before it was implimented in P5. Maybe someoen else can shed some light on BBL.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

BBL is kind of when you use activities to get the brain in gear for learning. I was at Dara last year when they "implemented" it. Basically we were given a sheet of A4 downloaded off of the internet and told to read it and adapt - and that was the last time they mentioned it.

Whether is works as well as any other method is anyones guess really...

[ChiangMaiAjarn]

My ranking (after 15 years of involvement ) of international schools, based on cost-benefit ratios:

1. CMIS -- Long tradition (it was the second international school founded in all of Thailand). Strong community involvement, good teachers.

However you should not discount the strong Christian missionary element at CMIS. It's primary aim is still to provide schooling to children of missionary families.

I decided against sending my children there after an extended discussion with one of their teachers about the evils of Darwin's unproven theory, which ignores God's immutable teachings.

2. Grace -- The word of God maybe, but also truly qualified and dedicated teachers and administrators. Run according to Western standards.

Grace, I'm afraid, I regard as little more than a brain washing institution. One of the contractual obligations, as detailed in the web-site, is to evangelise and convert pupils to their particular brand of extremely fundamental christianity. If you are not a member of their sect, you are not made welcome.

3. Prem -- Very expensive, but has the prestige due to its IB program that might get a kid into Harvard if he's that smart. Whether the teaching standards are that much better is open to serious debate.

Many pupils are being moved away from Prem because of perceived social problems. Prem students seem to have adopted a "holier-than-thou" attitude which many others find grating. Their arrogance is becoming highly unpopular in other circles.

NIS -- Good teachers, but run in a Thai management model (fill in the blanks).

NIS pupils are often regarded as having a chip on their shoulders, being unable to qualify for, or afford, Prem. This has sometimes led to trouble with pupils from other schools. Note the infamous fight on the football field a couple of years ago.

Lanna -- Same as above.

Lanna is a school on the way down. They have a revolving, open-door policy, accepting, without question, pupils other schools find unacceptable - as long as they have the money to pay. The Thai management run the school as a cash cow, constantly complaining they are losing money, while buying ever more property for personal use.

They recently expelled two pupils and instigated a 2 Million Baht defamation suit, because the parents had the nerve to suggest the food served was unhealthy for the children and was a cause of ill-health and learning difficulties amongst the students.

APIS -- Part of a resort scheme. Boarding school with many rich Bangkok kids who were gettin' a little on the wild side, so they got sent to the mountains in the north.

Start your child's day by giving them a dose of motion sickness. The drive up the mountain to APIS guarantees an interesting start to the day. APIS are known for having difficulties with pupils from other schools, particularly NIS.

What a load of tosh - please make some effort to be accurate when writing about something as important as education. I am both a parent and teacher at Lanna International School. The comments about this school are just plain WRONG.

1. "Lanna is a school on the way down". This is based on what? It can't be the examination results showing massive improvement in the last few years, or the huge investment being put into resources in the school, or the increasingly wide range of subjects being offered at advanced level, or the increasing number of graduates year on year, or... shall I go on?

2. "They have a revolving, open-door policy, accepting, without question, pupils other schools find unacceptable". Hmm, strange then that Lanna has refused to take students at certain high school grade levels because they had been put in intensive English for a year and so need to repeat the year of normal schooling. These students have then gone, wallet in hand, to large prestigious schools (Prem for one...) and been taken in at grade level. NOTE - we refused them entry into that grade on EDUCATIONAL grounds - we chose not to take the money...

3. "The Thai management run the school as a cash cow". In recent years (since the arrival of the new English Head) huge investment has taken place with consequently very little profit - part of the owners long term view and vision. If you want to find a school desperate for cash who will take anybody take a look at Prem these days... (where teachers have been called in to a meeting to quash rumours that their jobs were at risk!)

4. "They recently expelled two pupils ". Simply no - ask them. They were offered the chance to remain if suitable reperations were made, but unfortunately chose to leave and go to a Thai school. A shame in my view.

5. "instigated a 2 Million Baht defamation suit, because the parents had the nerve to suggest the food served was unhealthy for the children and was a cause of ill-health and learning difficulties amongst the students". YES the lawsuit was instigated following a vicious multi-page letter being distributed to all parents, in print and via e-mail (the e-mail purporting to be from the school and pointing people to a website created by unknown people (too shy to step forward...)). The food, as in all schools, could be improved (as it now has been!), but unfortunately the author of this letter rather lost the plot and rather than being something constructive the letter became a tirade. A shame, because hidden in amongst it were some very valid points that I was in agreement with...

PLEASE CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFORE SHARING THEM WITH OTHERS WHO KNOW NO BETTER.

[PeaceBlondie]

A friend of mine tutors students from Lanna, Prem, APIS, and Grace, if I recall correctly. Her Lanna students have been as good as, or better than, the others. Much better prepared for their grade level than the student at Prem. One of her Lanna students was allowed to skip a grade and get into the age level AFTER a year of intensive ESL at Lanna, which was needed. She's never stepped onto any of the campuses or had more than a few minutes' discussion with the teachers, but says Lanna is as good as any (but I think she has no students from CIS or NIS).

Again, you can't draw conclusions on third-hand reports of somebody who tutors a few kids from each school, who aren't native speakers of English. You can't draw conclusions if you only know a few students and parents from a single school. My friend says her students at Grace are well adjusted and well educated, within the narrow evangelical mindset. Sometimes you get what you want.

[Dustoff]

This is an excellent thread and I am happy that I stumbled across it.

I am American with a Thai wife and have an 11-year old stepson who is to begin grade 6 early next year. I have had him in a good quality Catholic school (12k Baht/yr) in Chaiyaphum for two years and he is holding a 3.79 grade average. A brilliant kid and we want him in a good school that will prepare him for a university such as Payap.

My wife has been researching schools here for a couple of years now as well and her son is arriving at the end of this week to test with Varee on the 10th. Location was also part of our consideration as we live a bit south of the airport off Hang Dong Road but so far this school has an excellent reputation both with Thais and many farangs we have spoken with. Wicharawit was a secondary consideration but only if he has trouble passing Varee's test (which only my wife is worried about) but the CarreFore area is way gone from where we live.

Thanks so much for all the good input !

Edit: Varee is quoting 40k Baht/yr with the price dropping a couple of thousand when he enters high school. And I tried their website but it seems to be only in Thai and runs way off the margins of my screen - not to mention that I do not have Thai language plugins in my computer as yet...

Edited November 2, 2007 by Dustoff

[BlissfullyIgnorant]

My Stepdaughter is in the Prathom 5 (Primary year 5, i.e. 10yo) Bilingual program at Varee and our latest term fees were 28K Baht - 40K Baht sounds like the English Program pricing.

[p1p]

"They recently expelled two pupils ". Simply no - ask them. They were offered the chance to remain if suitable reperations were made, but unfortunately chose to leave and go to a Thai school. A shame in my view.

I am the father of the two children concerned. I have tried to remain outside this thread for obvious reasons. However I fear I can not allow your statement concerniong myself and my family to go unchallenged.

I am afraid your statement here is simply wrong. In April, the school accepted a deposit for my children to return in the autumn term. Towards the end of the summer term I paid the school fees in full for the 2007/8 year. Shortly thereafter I received a letter expelling my children from the school. I must stress here that my children were in no way at fault and all staff members I spoke to, including the headmaster, expressed severe misgivings about this action being taken.

The "suitable reparations", (note the spelling,) you refer to were designed to be unacceptable and were only offered after considerable negotiation by my lawyer. It was not acceptable to expect me to: a. Pay a considerable sum of money in "reparation". b. Agree to not set foot on school premises. c. Not speak to any staff member of the school. And d. Write to every parent, pupil and member of staff "apologising" and stating that I was wrong in my assessment of school nutrition etc.

"instigated a 2 Million Baht defamation suit, because the parents had the nerve to suggest the food served was unhealthy for the children and was a cause of ill-health and learning difficulties amongst the students". YES the lawsuit was instigated following a vicious multi-page letter being distributed to all parents, in print and via e-mail (the e-mail purporting to be from the school and pointing people to a website created by unknown people (too shy to step forward...)). The food, as in all schools, could be improved (as it now has been!), but unfortunately the author of this letter rather lost the plot and rather than being something constructive the letter became a tirade. A shame, because hidden in amongst it were some very valid points that I was in agreement with...

This statement is again erroneous. The letter, which was not vicious simply factual but designed to, (hopefully,) shock the school into taking some action, was emailed ONLY to members of the PTA Board, the school management and to certain teaching staff members. It was addressed as an "Open Letter" to all at Lanna, but I never distributed it widely. This was done in exasperation because two years of writing many letters and emails to the school management had elicited no response whatsoever. When attempts were made to discuss within the PTA, they stated that it was outside their remit. They were concerned only with social functions and raising money etc. The letter simply related these facts and others regarding nutrition etc. In that letter and others previously written to the school, I further offered to help the school with training and the loan of some of my own personal equipment.

Having emailed the letter, I received an unsigned note purporting to be from a member of the advisory board stating they would meet and try to address the points I raised. I therefore decided to leave the matter there and try to offer further help where I might.

Unfortunately, later, a third party, who had helped with the translation, decided to place copies of the letter on a web site/blog and email parents. I had previously asked his help in setting up a place where parents could download PDFs of the letter but, following the letter from the advisory board, I had given direct instructions not to do so. I stress, this was done against my direct instructions, a fact of which you, as a member of the school should be fully aware.

Having written the above, I must stress that I always attempted to do nothing more than help the school to make improvements. I was asked to be a member of the first health and safety committee at Lanna and, with the committee, made many suggestions, most of which were either ignored or I was told that I would personally have to implement the safety improvements. An action totally outside my remit.

I was only one among many who deplored the state of the school food. I found it unforgivable to serve young children a meal consisting of a plate of white rice and a squeeze of tomato ketchup, which I observed on more than one occasion. Many other parents and staff members expressed their deep disquiet about matters here, I simply tried to give voice to their concerns and ended making my own children suffer deep stress and, (temporary) unhappiness.

They are now very happy studying at their new school, Wichai Wittaya. This is a multi denominational school with Buddhist, Christian, Hindu and Muslum students. They are taught about but not indoctrinated in all main religious. The school is Bilingual, with approximately half the teaching staff being non Thai, (they almost all come from the UK.) Over half of the tuition is in English.

On arrival at Wichai Wittaya from Lanna, both of my children were at the bottom of their class in every subject including English. (My elder child was near the top of his class in Lanna.) They are now catching up and look forward to doing well there. This is the silver lining to the cloud that ended their time at Lanna where they were very happy and had many friends.

PLEASE CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFORE SHARING THEM WITH OTHERS WHO KNOW NO BETTER.

On this note, I am now closing this thread. If you feel I am abusing my position as a moderator in doing so, please contact Admin.

Note: The posts concerning schools and fees for young children have been moved to a new thread, "School fees for young children"