New York City declares state of emergency over migrant 'crisis situation'

[nauseus]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:59 AM, Eric Loh said:

Abbott's Operation Lone Star has not slowed down surging number of migrants. He has built wall, arrested migrants, spend million busing migrants to other cities and intensified the inspection of commercial trucks causing economic gridlock. His policies has not worked. Title 42 and Trump's Remain in Mexico program are not working. Abbott has been confrontational, obstructive in his actions and will not coordinate with federal and states on his policies. He has exploited the migrant issue for his own political gains. It's easy to cite numbers and put blame but the facts remained that migration is rising due to economics, natural disasters etc and are out of the President's control. A cohesive plan between state and federal government is needed but under this kind of hostile atmosphere created by Abbott, it's unlikely anything can be achieved.  

Can't be Biden's fault then? Pah!

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, candide said:

As already commented by Placeholder, that's not how drug enters the U.S. 

As they can easily be spotted and arrested, it's not a reliable way for drug traffickers. 

Agree but some still do it.

[placeholder]

28 minutes ago, nauseus said:

What nonsense! How is the import of illegal drugs "perfectly legitimate"?

 

That people pay criminals to help them over the border does not make that crossing legal.

 

Ridiculous back. 

I should have written but didn't was that the drugs or being shipped along with legitimate goods rather than the shipping themself was legitimate. Doesn't change the fact that drugs are not coming over mostly via drug mules but rather along with manufactured goods.

 

And if it didn't make economic sense for undocumented aliens to pay  smugglers to transport them over, then there wouldn't be a business. And the only way it would make economic sense is for these people to be earning many times over what it costs for transport.

Edited October 12, 2022 by placeholder

[pgrahmm]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

You got to love that phrase, "border security." As though undocumented aliens pose some kind of threat to the United States instead of being a crucial source of Labor for the agricultural and construction industry. It's a sure thing we'll be seeing lots of them undermining Florida by working in the reconstruction efforts in that state. Despite which, I doubt DeSantis will be delivering them to New York City.

While strip mining jobs from qualified US citizens that have been damaged by not only a hurricane  but also by the completely irresponsible & reckless policies of the current administration = wreaking havoc throughout the nation....

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Can't be Biden's fault then? Pah!

Has any recent President ever solved the migrant issues? The situation is dire and exploiting the migrants for political leverage worsened the crisis. It will take sustained political will among stakeholders and lawmakers to develop, implement, fund and enforce sound policies. This will never happen in this toxic partisan political polarization which has also grown worse in last 6 years.  

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

I should have written but didn't was that the drugs or being shipped along with legitimate goods rather than the shipping themself was legitimate. Doesn't change the fact that drugs are not coming over mostly via drug mules but rather along with manufactured goods.

 

And if it didn't make economic sense for undocumented aliens to pay  smugglers to transport them over, then there wouldn't be a business. And the only way it would make economic sense is for these people to be earning many times over what it costs for transport.

All sounds illegal to me, whichever way you spin it.

[candide]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

All sounds illegal to me, whichever way you spin it.

You are being dishonest. He never claimed it was legal to ship drug. He claimed drug was hidden into shipments of legal goods.

You should read posts before replying.

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Has any recent President ever solved the migrant issues? The situation is dire and exploiting the migrants for political leverage worsened the crisis. It will take sustained political will among stakeholders and lawmakers to develop, implement, fund and enforce sound policies. This will never happen in this toxic partisan political polarization which has also grown worse in last 6 years.  

If the scale of border apprehensions (below) can be a guide to the growth of illegal immigration, then the recent problem grew only last year, after Biden reversed several policies by executive order.

 

No debate, no cross-party consultation, no nothing. Then you talk of  toxic partisan political polarization

 

https://www.statista.com/chart/20326/mexicans-non-mexcians-apprehended-at-southern-us-border/

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, candide said:

You are being dishonest. He never claimed it was legal to ship drug. He claimed drug was hidden into shipments of legal goods.

You should read posts before replying.

I read it and my comment stands - there can be no justification for anything illegal.

[candide]

23 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I read it and my comment stands - there can be no justification for anything illegal.

How can you understand this as a justification for something illegal?

Quote from Placeholder's post

"drugs are mostly brought over via shipments of perfectly legitimate shipments of manufactured goods from Mexico."

[nauseus]

15 minutes ago, candide said:

How can you understand this as a justification for something illegal?

Quote from Placeholder's post

"drugs are mostly brought over via shipments of perfectly legitimate shipments of manufactured goods from Mexico."

If these "perfectly legitimate shipments" are being used to contain/hide/disguise these drugs, then the whole lot ceases to be perfectly legitimate. Can you understand that?

[candide]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If these "perfectly legitimate shipments" are being used to contain/hide/disguise these drugs, then the whole lot ceases to be perfectly legitimate. Can you understand that?

I understand, but there's no "justification" in his post. Just expressing ( maybe not formulated in a  precise enough way), that illegal goods are usually hidden inside shipments of goods which are not illegal.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, pgrahmm said:

While strip mining jobs from qualified US citizens that have been damaged by not only a hurricane  but also by the completely irresponsible & reckless policies of the current administration = wreaking havoc throughout the nation....

Are you seriously asserting that undocumened workers began with the Biden administration? Previous administrations have mostly avoided doing anything serious about the situation. Florida has decided that violations are so serious that a business owner can be fined up to $500. You know how many violations have been issued? None. 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

All sounds illegal to me, whichever way you spin it.

Enough with the trolling already. My explanation is perfectly clear. 

[nauseus]

22 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Enough with the trolling already. My explanation is perfectly clear. 

So was mine. I am arguing - not trolling - I loathe that word.

[EVENKEEL]

7 hours ago, placeholder said:

A few reasons why your comment is ridiculous. For one thing, drugs are mostly brought over via shipments of perfectly legitimate shipments of manufactured goods from Mexico.

And exactly how out-of-touch do you have to be to understand that the reason there is a people smuggling business is because these smugglers are paid for it by the people that they're smuggling? People who come to the United States so that they can earn money to live and support their families.

Following your logic, our border patrol and any effort to stop the flow of drugs and illegals into the US is unnecessary. 

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Following your logic, our border patrol and any effort to stop the flow of drugs and illegals into the US is unnecessary. 

You mean if the borders aren't protected the US will stop winning the drug war? Oh no!

 

As for undocumented aliens, if the US was serious about keeping them out, all it would have to do is enact laws that severely punish people who employ them. But too many industries depend on them. So maybe the system is working as it should. Make it difficult enough to keep out the less fit, but relaxed enough to let potential workers in.

[candide]

21 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Following your logic, our border patrol and any effort to stop the flow of drugs and illegals into the US is unnecessary. 

As concerns drugs, which was the topic discussed, the most efficient way to reduce the amount of drug smuggled would be to better control the main flow of drugs: the one hiding drugs in shipments which are apparently legitimate: trucks and train carrying commercial and industrial shipments. Any suggestion?

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, candide said:

As concerns drugs, which was the topic discussed, the most efficient way to reduce the amount of drug smuggled would be to better control the main flow of drugs: the one hiding drugs in shipments which are apparently legitimate: trucks and train carrying commercial and industrial shipments. Any suggestion?

Curses on the USMCA, that toothless replacement for NAFTA, and whoever was responsible for it.

[Credo]

Both the war on immigrants and the war on drugs are among the biggest waste of money in US history.  Both have been about as successful as the incursions into Vietnam and Afghanistan.   

 

Immigrants keep coming, and no wall will stop them.  The Mediterranean Sea doesn't stop them; a strip of iron won't.  Any effort to slow the flow has to occur by helping to change conditions in their own country that making living there more palatable.   That includes addressing Climate Change, which has wreaked havoc on parts of Central America, including back-to-back hurricanes in 2020 to coffee rust.    Food insecurity is a huge motivator to migrate (think of the potato famine).  So, some aggressive, targeted programs in those countries needs to be implemented post haste.   

The issue of political instability and gang violence are harder to address, but we have people in gov't who have a history of dealing with these problems and may have some good long term ways of helping without too much direct involvement.   

 

The war on drugs simply needs to be ended.   Most drugs need to be decriminalized, legalized or controlled. Much of the situation is a public health matter for users, and some serious reform needs to be done with those entities known as cartels.  

 

The current scourge is rainbow fentanyl which is producing panic because it looks like candy.  I don't know many druggies that would give their drugs to kids -- or share with anyone for that matter -- but it is causing quite a stir.   This drug can be produced for a few cents per pill in easily set up laboratories that can be moved on short notice.   Border patrol is boasting large busts, and high street value, but yet the actual cost to those producing it is minor.  Giving up a few shipments is nothing more than a diversion for larger shipments to get through.

If you want migrants at home, then start making their home a better place to live.  You want to stop the flow of illicit drugs, start making them less illicit. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Credo

[jak2002003]

Such double standards blaming illegal immigrants and illegal drugs. 

 

The only reason the illegal drugs are coming to America is that Americans are using them.  No demand there will be no one supplying them. 

 

Either stop your American people using the drugs or make them legal. 

 

It's like when you made alcohol illegal...that made the problem worse. 

 

As for blocking immigrants coming to America..as why they are coming ..  it's Americans fault for employing them and using them illegally.  If there was no work for them they would not come!  Arrest these American people who are employing these illegal workers! 

 

.....if Americans don't like it they should go back to their own historical naive countries.  They are only a few generations from being immigrants themselves.  Leave the place to the native people and the other races that will welcome immigrants in.  

 

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Credo said:

Immigrants keep coming, and no wall will stop them.  The Mediterranean Sea doesn't stop them; a strip of iron won't.  Any effort to slow the flow has to occur by helping to change conditions in their own country that making living there more palatable. 

Are you saying the Australian policy of isolating them outside the mainland hasn't worked? Far as I know it's been a success, and the boats stopped.

Of course it took political will to make it happen. Something apparently lacking in the UK and the USA.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Leave the place to the native people and the other races that will welcome immigrants in.  

Err, the Native Americans on the whole did not welcome immigrants, especially after they saw what happened to the East Coast native tribes.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you saying the Australian policy of isolating them outside the mainland hasn't worked? Far as I know it's been a success, and the boats stopped.

Of course it took political will to make it happen. Something apparently lacking in the UK and the USA.

Let's try this again:

What does this tell you?

[BritManToo]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:22 AM, Credo said:

Please explain just what 'job' it is that the federal government is supposed to do?

The federal governments job is to protect it's citizens from foreign invaders.

Which is the primary reason for any government to exist.

Sadly, the governments of the western world are nearly all letting their citizens down.

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The federal governments job is to protect it's citizens from foreign invaders.

Which is the primary reason for any government to exist.

Sadly, the governments of the western world are nearly all letting their citizens down.

Oh, no. The United States has been under invasion for about 100 years now. Wow, a Hundred Years War taking place right under the noses of Americans. And those invaders are destroying America by building houses, preparing food, milking cows and harvesting vegetables. America is doomed!

[candide]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Oh, no. The United States has been under invasion for about 100 years now. Wow, a Hundred Years War taking place right under the noses of Americans. And those invaders are destroying America by building houses, preparing food, milking cows and harvesting vegetables. America is doomed!

And how could they not feel at home e in places with names such as Los Angeles, Tampa, Orlando, San Antonio, etc...?

Edited October 13, 2022 by candide

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Oh, no. The United States has been under invasion for about 100 years now. Wow, a Hundred Years War taking place right under the noses of Americans. And those invaders are destroying America by building houses, preparing food, milking cows and harvesting vegetables. America is doomed!

A lot longer than that but not an "invasion" as you put it. The difference is that most immigrants up to about 1962 arrived overtly, with identification, under permitted quota systems - therefore legally - my grandfather was one of them. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by nauseus
about 1962

[placeholder]

On 10/12/2022 at 3:47 PM, nauseus said:

Agree but some still do it.

And the situation would change very little if they didn't. So what's the point? Is that the crucial fraction that America's continuing victory against drug smuggling depends on?

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

A lot longer than that but not an "invasion" as you put it. The difference is that most immigrants up to about 1962 arrived overtly, with identification, under permitted quota systems - therefore legally - my grandfather was one of them. 

You mean as BritManToo put it. I was just following his wise lead. You and he do seem to share a belief that a wall is the crucial component in keeping illegal drugs out of America,

Edited October 13, 2022 by placeholder