Taking the plunge

[Lacessit]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Ridiculous.

Most agents offer various "levels of service".

That can be hand holding document organization through to obtaining (for example) extensions based on retirement without satisfying the financials. 

 

You mention deportation...

Please provide link to ONE linked to reputable agent. 

 

Pompous.

I am not talking about reputable agents. Obtaining extensions based on retirement without satisfying the financials is IMO dishonesty by the client, the agent, and the approving IO.

Please provide data from Immigration stating no-one has ever been deported due to failing to meet financial requirements.

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

As I understand it, agents deposit 800K in the client's account to meet the funds on deposit requirement a day prior to application, then withdraw the 800K immediately the visa or extension is approved. A compliant IO is bribed to look the other way, and in any case can always fall back on the official excuse of exercising discretion.

I used to know a guy who described his visa extension process that way, he paid 30,000 baht to an agent for each retirement extension.

Not quite .

You go to a bank, they stick the money into your account in cash , you get bank statement , they then withdraw the money 

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Pompous.

I am not talking about reputable agents. Obtaining extensions based on retirement without satisfying the financials is IMO dishonesty by the client, the agent, and the approving IO.

Please provide data from Immigration stating no-one has ever been deported due to failing to meet financial requirements.

Every agent provides both.

As I posted 

 

Then you ask me......

"Please provide data from Immigration stating no-one has ever been deported due to failing to meet financial requirements."

 

You are the one that stated that indeed it occurs.

So post link to when it occurred.

 

There are literally MANY MANY folk using agents that do not meet the financials.

 

 

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Not quite .

You go to a bank, they stick the money into your account in cash , you get bank statement , they then withdraw the money 

Where do you do this and name of agent.

 

That does occur but normally when dealing direct with immigration.

 

Not the norm for majority of agent facilitated extensions. 

[Lacessit]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Every agent provides both.

As I posted 

 

Then you ask me......

"Please provide data from Immigration stating no-one has ever been deported due to failing to meet financial requirements."

 

You are the one that stated that indeed it occurs.

So post link to when it occurred.

 

There are literally MANY MANY folk using agents that do not meet the financials.

 

 

I have no doubt there are many folk who do not meet the financials.  Evidently, your posts endorse dishonesty.

I have found ubonjoe is the go-to authority in this area.

As a previous post of yours was abuse, and effectively calling me a liar, you are on ignore now. Goodbye.

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Where do you do this and name of agent.

 

That does occur but normally when dealing direct with immigration.

 

Not the norm for majority of agent facilitated extensions. 

In Chiang Mai, I would prefer not to give agents names on public forums 

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

In Chiang Mai, I would prefer not to give agents names on public forums 

Understand.

Guessing that would be agent that has particular contact with an io.

All good. In fact good option. 

Not available everywhere. 

[Neeranam]

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Pompous.

I am not talking about reputable agents. Obtaining extensions based on retirement without satisfying the financials is IMO dishonesty by the client, the agent, and the approving IO.

Please provide data from Immigration stating no-one has ever been deported due to failing to meet financial requirements.

I'm surprised  foreigners that are here legitimately put up with these guys as their behaviour makes it much worse for them and encourages extortion! 

[cdemundo]

16 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Pompous.

I am not talking about reputable agents. Obtaining extensions based on retirement without satisfying the financials is IMO dishonesty by the client, the agent, and the approving IO.

Please provide data from Immigration stating no-one has ever been deported due to failing to meet financial requirements.

It only requires one example of an individual being prosecuted, deported, fined, beheaded etc. to prove the point you put forward.

Not possible to give one example ofno  problems to prove that no one has had a problem.

 

So it would seem that the burden of proof lies with those stating that there is a risk associated with using an agent.

And it seems there isn't.

[Neeranam]

15 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Not quite .

You go to a bank, they stick the money into your account in cash , you get bank statement , they then withdraw the money 

Are you saying they also falsify the bank statement! ? ! 

AFAIK, the funds must be kept in the bank for a while. 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, cdemundo said:

It only requires one example of an individual being prosecuted, deported, fined, beheaded etc. to prove the point you put forward.

Not possible to give one example ofno  problems to prove that no one has had a problem.

 

So it would seem that the burden of proof lies with those stating that there is a risk associated with using an agent.

And it seems there isn't.

I know one guy who was refused entry to the country and blacklisted about 3 months ago because they found out he had used an agent/fake visa previously.  

Like many things here, corrupt activities are ever so convenient until they aren't -  get a legit visa, by going to immigration. If you don't satisfy the immigration requirements, go somewhere you do. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

I know one guy who was refused entry to the country and blacklisted about 3 months ago because they found out he had used an agent/fake visa previously.  

Like many things here, corrupt activities are ever so convenient until they aren't -  get a legit visa, by going to immigration. If you don't satisfy the immigration requirements, go somewhere you do. 

He would have been using fake visas , the visas you get from immigration are genuine visas .

   You seem to be unable to understand the different between real genuine visas and fake visas .

   Visas from immigration are real , self printed visas are fake 

[cdemundo]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I know one guy who was refused entry to the country and blacklisted about 3 months ago because they found out he had used an agent/fake visa previously.  

Like many things here, corrupt activities are ever so convenient until they aren't -  get a legit visa, by going to immigration. If you don't satisfy the immigration requirements, go somewhere you do. 

"I know one guy ..."

 

Sorry, but for a person who seems to have something like an obsession about this issue....

I don't consider your "I know one guy..." as an example for proof of your own argument.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

17 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

It only requires one example of an individual being prosecuted, deported, fined, beheaded etc. to prove the point you put forward.

Not possible to give one example ofno  problems to prove that no one has had a problem.

 

So it would seem that the burden of proof lies with those stating that there is a risk associated with using an agent.

And it seems there isn't.

Neeranan has told you to leave Thailand if you cannot get a visa direct from immigration .

   Will you be leaving Thailand ?

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

As sure as night follows day, if an agent or the IO that the agent is bribing is caught, it will be the client that gets thrown under the bus.

Caught by whom? ... And what crime is anyone going to be charged with?

 

If you know a good Thai lawyer, some time give them the following scenario and ask what crime(s) are being committed by anyone ...

1. Agent pays the senior official's wife to induce the official to use his discretion to waive funds seasoning and approve an extension
2. The official duly approves the extension
3. Both the agent and the official freely admit that this is what was done

You are going to be mighty surprised by the answer. No crime! This is a deliberate loophole in Thai law, and is heavily used, even to influence the approval of multi billion baht contracts. Third world countries' legal systems are not like those of first world countries.

 

Even if you believe the agent and/or the official committed a crime, what crime have you committed? The agent is the expert on immigration matters. Did you force him to commit a crime (assuming a crime was committed which it was not).

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

On a moral standpoint, you are adding to Thailand's corruption problem if you use the illegal agents for your own convenience. 

Fair point

[nigelforbes]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

5,000 baht for what? It would only take an hour or two a year! Maybe that includes 90 day reporting?

It does. It means that I only spend 5 minutes per year in Immigration, an appointment to get my photo taken and I'm very happy with that. I don't live in Pattaya, thankfully. The Immi office where I live required everyone to show up and get a queue number for an appointment with only a limited number being given each day. That meant showing up at Immi to begin queuing at 4am with no guarantee we wouldn't have to come back the following day to repeat the process. Using the agent solved that problem nicely. Using the agent also helped solve the covid issue because I am required to medically shield. Lastly, I'm over age 75 and wheel chair bound, agents for me are an essential service but they have to be legit.

Edited October 15, 2022 by nigelforbes

[nigelforbes]

4 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Every agent provides both.

As I posted 

 

Then you ask me......

"Please provide data from Immigration stating no-one has ever been deported due to failing to meet financial requirements."

 

You are the one that stated that indeed it occurs.

So post link to when it occurred.

 

There are literally MANY MANY folk using agents that do not meet the financials.

 

 

And that makes it right I suppose! Nothing more than chancers a sheep, all hoping for the best, quite sad really.

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

10 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

And that makes it right I suppose! Nothing more than chancers a sheep, all hoping for the best, quite sad really.

 

 

As much chance of getting in trouble  as getting arrested and taken to Court for paying a 200 Baht fine for not wearing a crash helmet directly to a Policeman roadside 

[Lemsta69]

6 hours ago, BonMot said:

But instead you hassle monthly income and all it's tedious vagaries.

ser, I don't understand what that means. I don't use the B65k per month method either. using an agent means I'm free of any obligation to bring money into the country. I could live in a shack if I wanted to, and eat Mama noodles every day and no-one would care that I only spent only 1000 per month.

[Lemsta69]

5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Where do you do this and name of agent.

 

That does occur but normally when dealing direct with immigration.

 

Not the norm for majority of agent facilitated extensions. 

apparently the "new boss" at Jomtien wants it done that way now, but that's all I'm saying on unsecured comms ????

[Lemsta69]

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

On a moral standpoint

Thailand has no morals. That's why I love the place and is why I moved here at 52 rather than festering for the rest of my life in the supposedly squeaky clean but actually deeply corrupt West. 

 

me paying a few baht for a retirement visa has absolutely zero effect on the moral fabric of the Kingdom. the Merc-driving boys in their fancy uniforms call the shots, not me or any other insignificant farang (including the naturalised ones lol)

[JimmyJ]

Guys - A lot of you like using agents.

 

Discussions like this are pointless, and this is a public forum.

Threads like this could someday have a negative effect on the status quo.

 

What is the point of these endless discussions with 2 or 3 people?

 

I don't understand why you let yourselves be sucked in.

 

The OP started this thread not to seek help but to foment arguments.

 

Really time to end this thread.

 

 

 

 

[nigelforbes]

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

As much chance of getting in trouble  as getting arrested and taken to Court for paying a 200 Baht fine for not wearing a crash helmet directly to a Policeman roadside 

You hope! There's hundreds of thousands of people in the crash helmet scenario, there's a couple hundred, maybe, in the visa scam scenario. The biggest difference is that 99.9% of the crash helmet cases are locals, ALL the visa cases are farangs hence targets of somebody. And of course the profit per case is very different, 200 baht vs many thousand, up to 30 or so I understand.

 

Supporters of the scheme, mostly the guys who use it and who are trying to justify the legality of it to themselves and to the rest of us, place a lot of emphasis on the I/O's discretionary powers. Do you suppose that discretionary power is granted by the underlying law, or is it a discretion they've granted themselves by virtue of their position, or is perhaps office policy decided by the head of the branch? I don't know the answer, but I'd bet the farm that it is not granted by the underlying law. Put another way, that discretionary power to change things is nothing more than an IO who is capable of deciding his/her own version of the law, aka bent.

 

[kinyara]

8 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Are you saying they also falsify the bank statement! ? ! 

AFAIK, the funds must be kept in the bank for a while. 

From what I've read whenever this topic comes up 1 bank in particular is always mentioned, I would never use said bank as a result. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence as a depositor in their internal control systems and the checking of them from within.

[Padthaigoong]

39 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Guys - A lot of you like using agents.

 

Discussions like this are pointless, and this is a public forum.

Threads like this could someday have a negative effect on the status quo.

 

What is the point of these endless discussions with 2 or 3 people?

 

I don't understand why you let yourselves be sucked in.

 

The OP started this thread not to seek help but to foment arguments.

 

Really time to end this thread.

 

 

 

 

I started it to help me be clear in my own mind if it was the right route for me to take and in that respect it has helped.

 

Because I know realise it is not.

 

I do agree that it is time to close the thread though as listening to grown men bickering like school children is tedious.

 

Thanks for your spiteful comment.

[Olmate]

4 minutes ago, kinyara said:

From what I've read whenever this topic comes up 1 bank in particular is always mentioned, I would never use said bank as a result. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence as a depositor in their internal control systems and the checking of them from within.

 

9 minutes ago, kinyara said:

From what I've read whenever this topic comes up 1 bank in particular is always mentioned, I would never use said bank as a result. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence as a depositor in their internal control systems and the checking of them from within.

Sadly money goes in and out of my  Oz bank account every fortnight(pensionday), no  bank internal control system I guess!! ????????

[Olmate]

19 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

 

19 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Olmate
Double.post

[kinyara]

2 minutes ago, Olmate said:

 

Sadly money goes in and out of my  Oz bank account every fortnight(pensionday), no  bank internal control system I guess!! ????????

Not surprised you're missing the point when you can't even work out how quote a post correctly.

[PJ71]

21 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Most long term legitimate expats, the ones who really can afford to live here, get pretty pee'd off with the antics of the few that can't and who break all the rules.

I'm a 'legitimate expat' and could n't care less what people do to get visa's, it's none of my business, or yours.