Anybody owns apartments in Cassia Phuket?

[MaxFar]

Hi,

I'm thinking of buying an apartment in Cassia Phuket as an investment. The Cassia hotel would rent it out, manage and so on - for a fee, obviously. They promise that it's a completely hands-free investment, also profitable. I'm not sure if I believe them ???? Any happy owners here? Please share your experience.

[Adumbration]

What is the spruiked ROI and ownership structure?

[MaxFar]

Leasehold, no guarantees but I was told ~6%/year after expenses, taxes and whatnot (before Covid obviously). Not impressive, but not that bad. Would love to check. @Adumbration, any ideas whom to ask?

[DrDave]

These type of arrangements are generally a horrible investment. The investor (you) who puts up all of the money is the last to be paid, that is if there's any money left after the management company or developer take their cut. The only ones making any money on these arrangements are the developers and their management companies who sell over-priced condos and then skim most of the ongoing revenue off the back end.

 

Many, many condos in Phuket were sold pre-covid using this 6% ROI scheme. You might ask those who bought them how their investment is paying off. I wouldn't be surprised if most would be too embarrassed to respond.

[MaxFar]

Hi Dave, well, this is basically what I'm doing: asking those who bought them ????

Anyone not too embarrassed to respond? I'm willing to pay actually. If you are an owner of apartment in Cassia and have one of those quarterly "rental pool returns" documents for 2018, please PM me. I need this to check my agent's words (don't need any personal info, just numbers). I would transfer a few thousand baht as a gesture of gratitude if anyone can help with that.

[Myran]

If it's so profitable, why aren't they just renting out the units themselves? Why "cut you in" on the alleged profit?

[DrDave]

9 hours ago, Myran said:

If it's so profitable, why aren't they just renting out the units themselves? Why "cut you in" on the alleged profit?

Right!!!

 

It's far more profitable to follow this script:

"I'm going to use YOUR money to build this project, and make a tidy profit off of the sale. Then, I'll rent out the unit YOU paid for while paying myself and a staff an ongoing salary from the rental proceeds. I'll also pocket charges for any *cough, cough* 'expenses' as I see fit. Whatever crumbs that may be left, I'll give to YOU. To sweeten the deal, I'll let you use the unit YOU paid for 5% of the time."

 

Near-zero capital investment and risk for the developer, with a very significant upside. You are basically financing the developer's business. Oh, and any "guaranteed ROI", is in reality not guaranteed.

[Sparktrader]

10 hours ago, Myran said:

If it's so profitable, why aren't they just renting out the units themselves? Why "cut you in" on the alleged profit?

Exactly. 6% is bs. More like 1%. Low season is dead in Thailand.

[stevenl]

20 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Exactly. 6% is bs. More like 1%. Low season is dead in Thailand.

Low season is dead wasn't true pre COVID. Next low season, who knows.

[Sparktrader]

19 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Low season is dead wasn't true pre COVID. Next low season, who knows.

Too many hotels. They dont fill up. Cleaning costs too. I looked at something like this net was 3% and thats in a better city. 6% net pigs bum. If they would getting 6% net they wouldnt sell. 6% gross is normal. Net no way. 

 

What they do is base this bs on another hotel in the best part of the world in boom times.

 

Read the fine print.

[stevenl]

On 10/23/2022 at 10:32 PM, Sparktrader said:

Too many hotels. They dont fill up. Cleaning costs too. I looked at something like this net was 3% and thats in a better city. 6% net pigs bum. If they would getting 6% net they wouldnt sell. 6% gross is normal. Net no way. 

 

What they do is base this bs on another hotel in the best part of the world in boom times.

 

Read the fine print.

Read my reply to your post. You said low season is dead, I said Low season is dead wasn't true pre COVID. Next low season, who knows.

your reply now is not related to my post.

Edited October 24, 2022 by stevenl

[Adumbration]

On 10/22/2022 at 10:31 PM, MaxFar said:

Leasehold, no guarantees but I was told ~6%/year after expenses, taxes and whatnot (before Covid obviously). Not impressive, but not that bad. Would love to check. @Adumbration, any ideas whom to ask?

Dreadful investment.  A leasehold is an amortizing asset.  After thirty years (assuming that is the lease duration) you will have nothing.  Don't touch it with a barge pole is my advice.

[ChasingTheSun]

Better idea….Find an existing built foreign-freehold condo for a reasonable price along the coast between Kamala-Kata and just hire a rental agency to manage rentals for you.

[Aussieroaming]

You have to ask the developer what formulae they use to calculate the ROI e.g. are they calculating ROI on income generated from room leasing or is it income generated + supposed yearly property appreciation? There is absolutely no way that a developer will risk taking a yearly loss of profit in order to guarantee an ROI. 

[Tropposurfer]

A total rip off. Why oh why invest in ANY real estate - anywhere! that offers a nett return of 6% ludicrous. Go and buy a house in Australia and make 20% perm annum mean average, and not get bled pale by all and sundry off that nett profit as well.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Tropposurfer

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

A total rip off. Why oh why invest in ANY real estate - anywhere! that offers a nett return of 6% ludicrous. Go and buy a house in Australia and make 20% perm annum mean average, and not get bled pale by all and sundry off that nett profit as well.

Although property prices in Australia have dropped by 10 % this year and by even more in NZ

[eisfeld]

OP: I have a bridge to sell, uhm sorry lease. 6% ROI! Guaranteed, uhm sorry I mean not guaranteed but promised for sure!

 

Put your money into SP500 for 30 years you'll be much happier.

[Sparktrader]

4 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

A total rip off. Why oh why invest in ANY real estate - anywhere! that offers a nett return of 6% ludicrous. Go and buy a house in Australia and make 20% perm annum mean average, and not get bled pale by all and sundry off that nett profit as well.

6% gross is normal on rentals. 6% net is not common.

 

20% pa rise is not normal. 8% is normal. 

 

 

[swerve]

On 10/23/2022 at 9:14 PM, DrDave said:

Right!!!

 

It's far more profitable to follow this script:

"I'm going to use YOUR money to build this project, and make a tidy profit off of the sale. Then, I'll rent out the unit YOU paid for while paying myself and a staff an ongoing salary from the rental proceeds. I'll also pocket charges for any *cough, cough* 'expenses' as I see fit. Whatever crumbs that may be left, I'll give to YOU. To sweeten the deal, I'll let you use the unit YOU paid for 5% of the time."

 

Near-zero capital investment and risk for the developer, with a very significant upside. You are basically financing the developer's business. Oh, and any "guaranteed ROI", is in reality not guaranteed.

And this assumes that the building even gets built.  Some don't, and where does the money flow?

[Bupko]

I own 2 app in Cassia - have huge problems with management. They simply don't pay revenue. And im not alone. Preparing for the court. Dont believe in 6%

[ChasingTheSun]

3 hours ago, Bupko said:

I own 2 app in Cassia - have huge problems with management. They simply don't pay revenue. And im not alone. Preparing for the court. Dont believe in 6%

Can you get out of the rental contract with the condo management company and just use your own agent to lease it out?

If not, try selling. Perhaps some russians or chinese will buy if the price is right.

Edited August 7, 2023 by ChasingTheSun

[eezergood]

On 10/23/2022 at 9:48 PM, Sparktrader said:

Exactly. 6% is bs. More like 1%. Low season is dead in Thailand.

Current "low season" - I manage hotel are we are over 85% month on month! low season myth is exactly that

 

[jak2002003]

On 8/7/2023 at 1:03 PM, Bupko said:

I own 2 app in Cassia - have huge problems with management. They simply don't pay revenue. And im not alone. Preparing for the court. Dont believe in 6%

We have one condo in  Phuket as part of a hotel.  They basically conned us. We paid for it all including the furniture.  

 

They started payments fine, but after a few months they stopped. They said they could not afford to pay us becasue of covid,  then floods, then low season, then staff off sick.. Etc etc.. 

 

After long battle with getting the ownership in our name (which never happened) despite the fact we have all the records of contracts and our payments to them...they finally agreed to buy it back from us to stop us taking them to court.. 

 

After a few very erratic payments and many missed ones each month  payments last year all payments stopped. They do not reply to email, calls, anything. Yet their hotel is full and doing well...and they are using our room to rent to holidaymakers. 

 

We don't have enough money for the lawyer and are worried if we can actually trust a Thai lawyer. It's been so stressful over 3 years. 

 

Now we seriously considering waking away from it.  

 

 

 

 

[ChasingTheSun]

On 8/10/2023 at 11:57 AM, jak2002003 said:

We have one condo in  Phuket as part of a hotel.  They basically conned us. We paid for it all including the furniture.  

 

They started payments fine, but after a few months they stopped. They said they could not afford to pay us becasue of covid,  then floods, then low season, then staff off sick.. Etc etc.. 

 

After long battle with getting the ownership in our name (which never happened) despite the fact we have all the records of contracts and our payments to them...they finally agreed to buy it back from us to stop us taking them to court.. 

 

After a few very erratic payments and many missed ones each month  payments last year all payments stopped. They do not reply to email, calls, anything. Yet their hotel is full and doing well...and they are using our room to rent to holidaymakers. 

 

We don't have enough money for the lawyer and are worried if we can actually trust a Thai lawyer. It's been so stressful over 3 years. 

 

Now we seriously considering waking away from it.  

 

 

 

 

Put it up for sale. Somebody will buy it for the right price.

[jak2002003]

6 minutes ago, ChasingTheSun said:

Put it up for sale. Somebody will buy it for the right price.

Would do. But we have no blue book. They never registered it it in our names.

 

We saw a black and white photo copy of it from when they went to And office to register...but that does not have our names in it...and it was never completed. Said it would e complete on last payment. Well, we did last payment and then nothing. 

 

All we have are the receipts of payments.

 

3 months now and no money fron them...desoite our contact. 

 

We are moving out of Thailand now...they spoilt it for us.  Just trying to forget about it. 

 

Can't even put a friend in it...as the hotel has electronic swipe cards..

 

I would have loved to go down there and ruin the room and flood the place... And clear out all our furniture. 

 

 

[BE88]

Investing in Thailand, are you serious?

[ChasingTheSun]

7 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Would do. But we have no blue book. They never registered it it in our names.

 

We saw a black and white photo copy of it from when they went to And office to register...but that does not have our names in it...and it was never completed. Said it would e complete on last payment. Well, we did last payment and then nothing. 

 

All we have are the receipts of payments.

 

3 months now and no money fron them...desoite our contact. 

 

We are moving out of Thailand now...they spoilt it for us.  Just trying to forget about it. 

 

Can't even put a friend in it...as the hotel has electronic swipe cards..

 

I would have loved to go down there and ruin the room and flood the place... And clear out all our furniture. 

 

 

Is your condo unit leasehold or foreign freehold or thai freehold?

 

[jak2002003]

9 hours ago, ChasingTheSun said:

Is your condo unit leasehold or foreign freehold or thai freehold?

 

It's a hotel.  There are 6 separate blacks of rooms, a big restaurant and reception, and 2 swimming pools.  Also a beach bar. 

 

The land was bought by a farang / Thai business that owns a couple more such hotels in Phuket. 

 

Best Western Hotel was supposed to run it, but they pulled out. So now it's a private hotel.. 

 

Be bought our condo as freehold. The file was only a certain number of the condos were allowed to be farang owned...the rest Thai. 

 

 

[ChasingTheSun]

8 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

It's a hotel.  There are 6 separate blacks of rooms, a big restaurant and reception, and 2 swimming pools.  Also a beach bar. 

 

The land was bought by a farang / Thai business that owns a couple more such hotels in Phuket. 

 

Best Western Hotel was supposed to run it, but they pulled out. So now it's a private hotel.. 

 

Be bought our condo as freehold. The file was only a certain number of the condos were allowed to be farang owned...the rest Thai. 

 

 

You should have received a chanote for your foreign freehold unit. it would have your name on it. Did you get that?

 

[jak2002003]

2 hours ago, ChasingTheSun said:

You should have received a chanote for your foreign freehold unit. it would have your name on it. Did you get that?

 

There is a chonote but it had no ones name on it as no one has taken ownership of it.