Never go back???

[factseeker]

Hi Everybody,

 

For maybe 10 years or so my wife and I held the Non Immi O Visa 12 months Purpose Retirement.

While on visit to UK - Covid put a 'lid' on that.

Maybe you should never go back to anything - but we intend to try next 6 weeks or so.

We are heading back Chiang Mai hopefuly to fix 12 month Visa etc - Purpose Retirement.

Figure in as a 'Tourist' - then 90 days then 12 months.

Necessary funds already in Thai bank - in fact have never left.

So does anyone know what Form is required for the move to 90 days from 'Tourist' is it the TM7??

How soon can that be done?

At the moment it seems it is up to 45 days as Tourist but I want to move to 90 Days and then 12 month Visa soonest so that an annual renewal comes circa February latest.

Any and all advice more than welcome.

I managed all those years ago for that  first 12 months Purpose Retirement based on information from this Forum - indispensable.

Best Rgds

[CMBob]

You use the TM86 form to convert from a Tourist Visa to a Non-O visa (if you came in visa exempt, you'd use TM87).  And to then obtain an annual extension before the end of your 90-day Non-O visa, you'd use the TM7 form.

[Qman]

I was in the same situation as you and entered on a 30 day visa exemption and then converted to a Non-O and then extended based on retirement.  The conversion to Non-O takes a couple of weeks and people are advised to apply as soon as possible after entry to avoid your entry visa expiring before the Non-O is approved.  If you intended to convert I would suggest doing it as quickly as possible.

 

I was told that conversion to Non-O were being sent from the local Jomtien office to Bangkok for approval before the local office could stamp your passport.  I don't know if that was true but was the reason given to me for why it takes a long time.  

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, Qman said:

The conversion to Non-O takes a couple of weeks and people are advised to apply as soon as possible after entry to avoid your entry visa expiring before the Non-O is approved.

You need to apply for the non O, 15 days prior to expiry of your current permission of stay.

Once they accept your application and you are in "under consideration period" you just return on the date indicated. 

8 hours ago, CMBob said:

You use the TM86 form to convert from a Tourist Visa to a Non-O visa (if you came in visa exempt, you'd use TM87). 

Just to add ...you need to apply for the non O with at least 15 days remaining on your current permit

[BritTim]

Since you seem to be planning entering with a visa exemption, the form to use to apply for the Non O visa is TM87.

 

Is each of you planning to apply independently for a Non O (retirement) visa and extension, each with 800,000 baht in a separate bank account? If so, everything should go smoothly, as long as you apply well in advance of the expiry of the permission to stay from the visa exempt entry. If the plan is for one of you to get the Non O (retirement) and the other Non O (dependant) there is a complication. You cannot apply for the "conversion" to a Non O (dependant) visa at immigration. It needs to be done at an embassy/consulate outside Thailand after the one-year extension has been granted for the retirement permission to stay.

 

There is one additional thing to check immediately on arrival in Chiang Mai. The regulations for the Non O "conversion" visa application state that you need proof that the funds came from abroad. If the funds have been continually in your bank account for a long time, immigration will usually waive such proof. However, that can vary between immigration offices, and you should verify that this will be acceptable to the Chiang Mai office.

[CMBob]

Didn't notice the OP said he was going to do this up here in Chiangmai (same place I converted a year ago).  CM Immigration requires 21 days remaining on your current permission to stay (whether entering visa exempt, with a Tourist Visa, or with an extension of either) and they at least say they require that time because the conversion is approved in Bangkok (I have no idea if that's true).

On the day you apply for the conversion, you'll get a slip of paper stapled in your passport telling you to come back on a given date 21 days later to get your new Non-O visa stamped in your passport.  The actual Non-O visa you get will have a start date around (or within a week of) the date you applied.

Edited November 9, 2022 by CMBob

[ProbPossConf]

From "CMBob",  CM Immigration requires 21 days remaining on your current permission to stay.

If the final day occurs on a weekend or Thai holiday, then you must apply before the weekend/holiday.  CM Immigration will not grant any leeway (Personal experience) and you will have to apply again for a 30 day extension to repeat the process.

[mikeymike100]

4 hours ago, Qman said:

I was in the same situation as you and entered on a 30 day visa exemption and then converted to a Non-O and then extended based on retirement.  The conversion to Non-O takes a couple of weeks and people are advised to apply as soon as possible after entry to avoid your entry visa expiring before the Non-O is approved.  If you intended to convert I would suggest doing it as quickly as possible.

 

I was told that conversion to Non-O were being sent from the local Jomtien office to Bangkok for approval before the local office could stamp your passport.  I don't know if that was true but was the reason given to me for why it takes a long time.  

Yes it does have to Bangkok, it can take several weeks.

[jchfriis]

I was in that situation and applied online and got a 90 days Non O (retirement) from the Thai Embassy in Denmark. So no conversion needed, just an extension.. If possible in the UK I would think that is the easiest way.

[Robin]

I did the same as you intend, arriving last August.  No problems on arrival, given 30 day non-visa entry.

First week here, went to local I/O, Phayao, with wife, to do TM30.  There told the I/O  I wanted to change my non-visa entry to Non IM O for retirement.  Had to return with the standard bank documents for retirement, and pay 2000B visa fee, plus 8,000B for 'Services', and return 1 week later.  Non IM O stamped in my passport expiring 3 months after my non-visa 30 days ran out.  Told to return in the last month of Non O and apply for usual retirement extension.

Now due to go back to I/O on 17 Nov with appointment to extend for retirement.  Need to get new copies of usual bank documents and photo, as per normal Retirement extension.

All very straightforward, except for the 8000B for Serices, seemingly for filling in the forms o change to Non-Im..  

Far less trouble than applying for a Non IM. at RTE in London and for that I did not mind he 8,000 B Services fee

All at Phayao Immigration seemed to be aware of the procedures to change no visa entry to NonIM

I have previously done 2 Retirement extensions at Phayao, and they have all my details on file there

[BritTim]

Once they see you are willing to pay for "services" (no receipt) for the "conversion" visa, it will be interesting to see how much they try to take you for when you apply for the one-year extension.

[SammyJ]

23 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

You need to apply for the non O, 15 days prior to expiry of your current permission of stay.

Once they accept your application and you are in "under consideration period" you just return on the date indicated. 

Just to add ...you need to apply for the non O with at least 15 days remaining on your current permit

in chiang mai, they had been requiring at least 21 days left on current visa--it's not the same in all locations--welcome to Thailand!

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, SammyJ said:

in chiang mai, they had been requiring at least 21 days left on current visa--it's not the same in all locations--welcome to Thailand!

That's correct it is 21 at CM.

Not many require 21.

CM think they are unique 

[Jason44]

On 11/9/2022 at 1:19 AM, jchfriis said:

I was in that situation and applied online and got a 90 days Non O (retirement) from the Thai Embassy in Denmark. So no conversion needed, just an extension.. If possible in the UK I would think that is the easiest way.

When you applied for this visa, were you asked to provide "proof of retirement"? I submitted the same application two weeks ago, and yesterday received a request for additional documents. One of the requests was for "Proof of Retirement (SSA supporting letter)". (SSA is the Social Security Administration, which is our "pension" system in the US.)

 

I am questioning how to respond, because most Americans don't collect SSA until they turn 65, yet you can apply for the retirement visa in Thailand once you turn 50. And when I submitted my financial evidence, I included a report from my broker to show the expected investment income that I would have for the year. 

In any case, this was not a requirement when I completed the application, and I was just curious if you ran into something similar, when you applied in Denmark. Thanks.

[jchfriis]

10 hours ago, Jason44 said:

When you applied for this visa, were you asked to provide "proof of retirement"? I submitted the same application two weeks ago, and yesterday received a request for additional documents. One of the requests was for "Proof of Retirement (SSA supporting letter)". (SSA is the Social Security Administration, which is our "pension" system in the US.)

 

I am questioning how to respond, because most Americans don't collect SSA until they turn 65, yet you can apply for the retirement visa in Thailand once you turn 50. And when I submitted my financial evidence, I included a report from my broker to show the expected investment income that I would have for the year. 

In any case, this was not a requirement when I completed the application, and I was just curious if you ran into something similar, when you applied in Denmark. Thanks.

No, they didn't ask for anything else, but I attached copies of my passport where they could see that I had stayed in Thailand on a  "retirement visa" for many years before Covid hit and I was unable to return.

[factseeker]

On 11/8/2022 at 4:11 PM, CMBob said:

You use the TM86 form to convert from a Tourist Visa to a Non-O visa (if you came in visa exempt, you'd use TM87).  And to then obtain an annual extension before the end of your 90-day Non-O visa, you'd use the TM7 form.

Thnxs Bob - grateful - that's the one.

 

Do you happen to know how soon after a TM87 success you can go for the TM7

 

Trying to judge arrival dates to get underway so that the annual renewal - assuming we succeed - comes at right time for our yearly walkabout to UK and  wifes folks in France etc.

 

Best Rgds

[factseeker]

On 11/8/2022 at 10:55 PM, Qman said:

I was in the same situation as you and entered on a 30 day visa exemption and then converted to a Non-O and then extended based on retirement.  The conversion to Non-O takes a couple of weeks and people are advised to apply as soon as possible after entry to avoid your entry visa expiring before the Non-O is approved.  If you intended to convert I would suggest doing it as quickly as possible.

 

I was told that conversion to Non-O were being sent from the local Jomtien office to Bangkok for approval before the local office could stamp your passport.  I don't know if that was true but was the reason given to me for why it takes a long time.  

Good advice - thnxs

 

All best

[factseeker]

Thanks to everyone for the very clear advice.

 

Want to know anything Thai at all - log into ThaiVisa ( ASEAN)

 

Funds already in situ - have been since 'way back' - so apart from the Jet Lag ( getting on a bit these days ) - Bank Visits - Immi queues? - seems just a matter of out of the 'starting blocks' PDQ.

Once again thnxs to all.

[factseeker]

On 11/9/2022 at 4:53 PM, BritTim said:

Once they see you are willing to pay for "services" (no receipt) for the "conversion" visa, it will be interesting to see how much they try to take you for when you apply for the one-year extension.

Hi BritTim,

 

Not sure I like that - never before - I always just had to just cough up the 1900 Baht.

Things become 'tight' due to the Covid 'Imbroglio' ??

 

Best Rgds

Edited November 11, 2022 by factseeker

[ProbPossConf]

OP, "Factseeker"...Two important Chiang Mai Immigration process to follow:

     Chiang Mai wants at least 21 days instead of 15 days remaining on the 30-day visa exempt entry to process the 90-day Non-O visa.

     Non-O process requires two(2) sets of docs, including the bank docs; photos must be the same.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, factseeker said:

Not sure I like that - never before - I always just had to just cough up the 1900 Baht.

Things become 'tight' due to the Covid 'Imbroglio' ??

Often, sleazy officials will try it on, seeing if someone is willing to hand them free money. Once they are successful, unfortunately, they will tend to remember you. Do not be surprised if they expect similar generosity from you in future. That is the main reason why I never pay bribes (though I will sometimes reward helpful officials with something like a nice food item to be shared around the office) unless there is no alternative.

[CMBob]

5 hours ago, factseeker said:

Do you happen to know how soon after a TM87 success you can go for the TM7

Here in Chiangmai you can go for your annual extension with the TM7 up to 45 days prior to the expiration of your 90-day Non-O.  And your annual extension will be dated (start) from the date of expiration of your Non-O.  Same rule for future annual extensions.  

[CMBob]

On 11/9/2022 at 11:53 PM, BritTim said:

Once they see you are willing to pay for "services" (no receipt) for the "conversion" visa, it will be interesting to see how much they try to take you for when you apply for the one-year extension.

A little puzzled by those comments.  The conversion to a Non-O (from visa exempt or tourist visa and/or extensions of either) is 2000 baht and, yes, you will receive a receipt.  As for annual extensions, the fee is 1,900 baht (same as it's been for as long as I can remember....a decade plus) and you also will get a receipt for those.  There is zero need to pay anything additional to CM Immigration other than those standard fees.  

[BritTim]

49 minutes ago, CMBob said:

A little puzzled by those comments.  The conversion to a Non-O (from visa exempt or tourist visa and/or extensions of either) is 2000 baht and, yes, you will receive a receipt.  As for annual extensions, the fee is 1,900 baht (same as it's been for as long as I can remember....a decade plus) and you also will get a receipt for those.  There is zero need to pay anything additional to CM Immigration other than those standard fees.  

That is, of course, correct. However, if you read the complete thread, you will note that the person I responded to had decided to give Immigration an extra 8,000 baht when applying for the visa. Certainly, this should not be necessary, but some immigration offices can make it difficult for you to apply without the payment of a "tip" to the officials.

[factseeker]

1 hour ago, CMBob said:

Here in Chiangmai you can go for your annual extension with the TM7 up to 45 days prior to the expiration of your 90-day Non-O.  And your annual extension will be dated (start) from the date of expiration of your Non-O.  Same rule for future annual extensions.  

Good info - thnxs - that suites just fine.

[factseeker]

1 hour ago, CMBob said:

A little puzzled by those comments.  The conversion to a Non-O (from visa exempt or tourist visa and/or extensions of either) is 2000 baht and, yes, you will receive a receipt.  As for annual extensions, the fee is 1,900 baht (same as it's been for as long as I can remember....a decade plus) and you also will get a receipt for those.  There is zero need to pay anything additional to CM Immigration other than those standard fees.  

Hi again,

 

They were always impeccably behaved with us - only once did an Official make us run back to the Bank again as our Bank Letter was from the day previous and not that of our Immi visit.

 

[DrJack54]

4 hours ago, factseeker said:

Hi again,

 

They were always impeccably behaved with us - only once did an Official make us run back to the Bank again as our Bank Letter was from the day previous and not that of our Immi visit.

 

They should have accepted bank letter from previous day..

[CMBob]

5 hours ago, factseeker said:

Hi again,

 

They were always impeccably behaved with us - only once did an Official make us run back to the Bank again as our Bank Letter was from the day previous and not that of our Immi visit.

 

Was that in Chiangmai?  I've done a dozen+ annual extensions (based on retirement and funds in the bank) here in Chiangmai and my bank letter (and updated bankbook copies) have always been from the prior day.

[factseeker]

On 11/9/2022 at 12:45 AM, BritTim said:

Since you seem to be planning entering with a visa exemption, the form to use to apply for the Non O visa is TM87.

 

Is each of you planning to apply independently for a Non O (retirement) visa and extension, each with 800,000 baht in a separate bank account? If so, everything should go smoothly, as long as you apply well in advance of the expiry of the permission to stay from the visa exempt entry. If the plan is for one of you to get the Non O (retirement) and the other Non O (dependant) there is a complication. You cannot apply for the "conversion" to a Non O (dependant) visa at immigration. It needs to be done at an embassy/consulate outside Thailand after the one-year extension has been granted for the retirement permission to stay.

 

There is one additional thing to check immediately on arrival in Chiang Mai. The regulations for the Non O "conversion" visa application state that you need proof that the funds came from abroad. If the funds have been continually in your bank account for a long time, immigration will usually waive such proof. However, that can vary between immigration offices, and you should verify that this will be acceptable to the Chiang Mai office.

Hi BritTim,

Funds have been in a Thai Bank Accounts - myself and wife - seperate -  for all of 10 years - kept at circa 1Mil each.

There was a bit of a  situation right at the start as I transferred for both my wife and myself in one tranche and then moved funds to her account.

Made  sense - only way with Pension Company but also cut transfer costs.

Apparently by doing that it could have been considered as an 'internal' transfer to wife and queried but it never was.

Reason I write now is to ask does anyone know what is checked in BKK for the Non O 90 days.

I am recently nervous ref all this checking as we have had a hell of a time in UK first few months stranded.

No UK Bank Account on arrival but needed for certain payments.

Pensions are UK based - 'dues' paid in UK - all necessary documentation to prove - theoretically no problems being in UK.

Nevertheless great difficulty with UK Banks to get an Account - all said a 'no show' on their Credit Checking.

We discoverd Credit Checking Agencies only look at UK transactions - 'chicken and egg'!

Finally wife who is French managed - myself a Brit - once operating a UK Company in good standing - much longer - all a joke.

I would give a word of advice to anyone - even if a nuisance - do not let that UK Account go.
Hold it tight as you can.

I always considered the UK as 'super international' - no longer - all very parochial.

I worked all over Europe previously never these problems.

Best Rgds.

Edited November 15, 2022 by factseeker

[factseeker]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:38 PM, ProbPossConf said:

OP, "Factseeker"...Two important Chiang Mai Immigration process to follow:

     Chiang Mai wants at least 21 days instead of 15 days remaining on the 30-day visa exempt entry to process the 90-day Non-O visa.

     Non-O process requires two(2) sets of docs, including the bank docs; photos must be the same.

THnxs - got that.