Independence referendum: Scottish government loses indyref2 court case

[Bluespunk]

8 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Have to agree to disagree if for some reason all the Scots and Irish leave voting slips were disqualified they the UK would have remained as part of the EU

Nonsense “argument”.
 

brexit would not have happened if nearly 2 million more of the English votes had not gone the way of leave. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Bluespunk

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Nonsense “argument”.
 

brexit would not have happened if nearly 2 million more of the English votes had not gone the way of leave. 

I disagree with you 

 

[Bluespunk]

Just now, vinny41 said:

I disagree with you 

 

That doesn’t make your whataboutary any more correct. 

[vinny41]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

That doesn’t make your whataboutary any more correct. 

Likewise it doesn't make your posts any more correct 

[Bluespunk]

Just now, vinny41 said:

Likewise it doesn't make your posts any more correct 

They don’t need to be anymore correct as they are correct as they stand.

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

They don’t need to be anymore correct as they are correct as they stand.

Only in your opinion

[Bluespunk]

Just now, vinny41 said:

Only in your opinion

It’s not opinion.
 

You cannot only count one side in a democratic vote.

 

The near 2 million votes in favour of leave from England was the decisive number. 

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

It’s not opinion.
 

You cannot only count one side in a democratic vote.

 

The near 2 million votes in favour of leave from England was the decisive number. 

As i said in your opinion and I stated it was the Scots and Irish leave votes that made the difference without those votes the UK would have remained in the EU

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As i said in your opinion and I stated it was the Scots and Irish leave votes that made the difference without those votes the UK would have remained in the EU

Without the near 2 million English majority in favour of leave, leave would not have happened.
 

That was the decisive number. 
 

It was the majority of English voters that led to leave not a minority of Scottish and Irish voters. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Bluespunk
Paragraphing

[Phulublub]

50 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And I have proved that it was the combined votes of Scotland and Irish Leavers voters that made the difference in leave's overall result

 

No, you proved the square root of sod all.

 

Using incomplete data to support a conclusion you have already reached is a little bit sad.

 

PH

[Mac Mickmanus]

34 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Have to agree to disagree if for some reason all the Scots and Irish leave voting slips were disqualified they the UK would have remained as part of the EU

But if they would have disqualified all the London votes though , the UK still would have left

[Phulublub]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

No according to SNP.

Link please.

 

But whatever the SNP say, I know how and why I voted and know a good number of people who state they did the same for the same reason. 

 

Perhaps the SNP have a different agenda to me and my feloow travellers.  Certainly, for some of them, independence at any price is all that matters.  There are more moderate (and sensible) members with whom it is possible to have rational and reasoned debate, something that it seems difficult to do here with those who cherry pick numbers..

 

PH

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

Without all the remain voters , there would have been a 100 % leave vote 

[puchooay]

8 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Link please.

 

But whatever the SNP say, I know how and why I voted and know a good number of people who state they did the same for the same reason. 

 

Perhaps the SNP have a different agenda to me and my feloow travellers.  Certainly, for some of them, independence at any price is all that matters.  There are more moderate (and sensible) members with whom it is possible to have rational and reasoned debate, something that it seems difficult to do here with those who cherry pick numbers..

 

PH

 

It's common knowledge the SNP intend an independent Scotland to join EU.

 

If you need a link to that maybe you shouldn't have voted.

Edited November 26, 2022 by puchooay

[Phulublub]

40 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Only in your opinion

Wrong. (again).  It is not only his opinion.

 

PH

[Phulublub]

19 minutes ago, puchooay said:

It's common knowledge the SNP intend an independent Scotland to join EU.

 

If you need a link to that maybe you shouldn't have voted.

Again with the false narrative.  

 

I voted for Scotland to remain as part of the UK precisely because it was by no means a done deal that the Country could rejoin in short order, or on the same terms as we already had. 

 

That the SNP intended rejoining was utterly irrelevent to my stance.  However, as the UK has since left the EU, I would wholeheartedly support an independent Scotland seeking readmission and on this I agree with the SNP .

 

PH

[Rimmer]

Troll post adding nothing to the topic has been removed

[pacovl46]

On 11/26/2022 at 10:09 AM, James105 said:

1. The Empire was British, not English.

2. Out of the 3,987,112 people in Scotland who were eligible to vote in the EU ref, only 1,661,191 voted to remain in the EU.   The reason Scotland is no longer in the EU is because not enough Scots wanted to vote to remain in the EU.   

3.  You had your chance to leave the UK.   Your fellow Scots wanted to stay.   Don't be like Trump, take the loss like a grown up.    

And which country again was the real power behind the British Empire? Certainly not Wales or Scotland! 

 

I'm not Scotish, by the way, and I'm not disputing the result of the vote they already had. 

 

All im saying is, there was a MASSIVE change of circumstance since the last vote and therefore they should have the right to vote again because Brexit was obviously a gigantic game changer! 

 

[James105]

18 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

And which country again was the real power behind the British Empire? Certainly not Wales or Scotland! 

 

I'm not Scotish, by the way, and I'm not disputing the result of the vote they already had. 

 

All im saying is, there was a MASSIVE change of circumstance since the last vote and therefore they should have the right to vote again because Brexit was obviously a gigantic game changer! 

 

Perhaps you overlooked point 2 I made above, repeated here for your convenience:

 

2. Out of the 3,987,112 people in Scotland who were eligible to vote in the EU ref, only 1,661,191 voted to remain in the EU.   The reason Scotland is no longer in the EU is because not enough Scots wanted to vote to remain in the EU.  

 

They had a vote 8 years ago to leave the UK with the full awareness that the EU referendum would be coming afterwards.   Not even half of Scotlands eligible voters voted to remain in the EU.  They need to grow up and stop behaving like Trump does after a vote not going their way.   

[stevenl]

53 minutes ago, James105 said:

Perhaps you overlooked point 2 I made above, repeated here for your convenience:

 

2. Out of the 3,987,112 people in Scotland who were eligible to vote in the EU ref, only 1,661,191 voted to remain in the EU.   The reason Scotland is no longer in the EU is because not enough Scots wanted to vote to remain in the EU.  

 

They had a vote 8 years ago to leave the UK with the full awareness that the EU referendum would be coming afterwards.   Not even half of Scotlands eligible voters voted to remain in the EU.  They need to grow up and stop behaving like Trump does after a vote not going their way.   

And how many English were eligible to vote and voted Brexit?

Why would they vote for independence when the UK was still a member of the EU.

 

Your reasoning makes no sense on multiple fronts.

[James105]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

And how many English were eligible to vote and voted Brexit?

Why would they vote for independence when the UK was still a member of the EU.

 

Your reasoning makes no sense on multiple fronts.

Doesn't matter about the English as they are not the ones moaning and using it as reasoning to have another expensive, divisive time wasting referendum when the Scots already had their chance just 8 years ago.  The Scots are claiming that they are being "dragged out of the EU against their will" but if their will was to stay in the EU then more than half of eligible Scottish voters would have voted to do just that.   

 

The SNP and supporters are no different to Trump when it comes to accepting the results of elections.   Just because they make lots of noise does not mean that they should get another go.    

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, James105 said:

Doesn't matter about the English as they are not the ones moaning and using it as reasoning to have another expensive, divisive time wasting referendum when the Scots already had their chance just 8 years ago.  The Scots are claiming that they are being "dragged out of the EU against their will" but if their will was to stay in the EU then more than half of eligible Scottish voters would have voted to do just that.   

 

The SNP and supporters are no different to Trump when it comes to accepting the results of elections.   Just because they make lots of noise does not mean that they should get another go.    

You're being very consistent, again your reasoning makes no sense on multiple fronts.

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, James105 said:

Doesn't matter about the English as they are not the ones moaning and using it as reasoning to have another expensive, divisive time wasting referendum when the Scots already had their chance just 8 years ago.  The Scots are claiming that they are being "dragged out of the EU against their will" but if their will was to stay in the EU then more than half of eligible Scottish voters would have voted to do just that.   

 

The SNP and supporters are no different to Trump when it comes to accepting the results of elections.   Just because they make lots of noise does not mean that they should get another go.    

The Scots were entitled to believe that they were going to be in the EU permanently from 1972. The UK parliament has betrayed them.

[James105]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The Scots were entitled to believe that they were going to be in the EU permanently from 1972. The UK parliament has betrayed them.

... and if enough Scots had voted to stay in the EU, then that is where they would be right now.   

 

If it was really about the EU then the SNP would be campaigning on a platform to re-join the EU along with literally every single other party in the UK (including most Tories I would think) who also would want to rejoin the EU.   After the mess of it that the Tories have made there may even be public support for it now.   But it isn't, it's about one narcissist's fantasy to have an independent Scotland no matter what the cost is to the people that live there, knowing full well that she is wealthy enough to weather the storm.   

[JonnyF]

39 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The Scots were entitled to believe that they were going to be in the EU permanently from 1972. The UK parliament has betrayed them.

The SNP was campaigning for independence long before Brexit was on the cards. It's just an excuse to try to justify another vote. If they were to get another vote and lose again, they'll simply come up with another reason to run it again.

 

Same as Brexit, sometimes the losers just won't accept they've lost. The 2014 vote was decisive. Most Scots wish to stay which is not surprising given the great deal they've been given by the government.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

Doesn't matter about the English as they are not the ones moaning and using it as reasoning to have another expensive, divisive time wasting referendum when the Scots already had their chance just 8 years ago.  The Scots are claiming that they are being "dragged out of the EU against their will" but if their will was to stay in the EU then more than half of eligible Scottish voters would have voted to do just that.   

 

The SNP and supporters are no different to Trump when it comes to accepting the results of elections.   Just because they make lots of noise does not mean that they should get another go.    

62% of Scottish voters voted remain. That is why they justifiably state they were dragged out. 
 

Brexit happened because of the near 2 million majority voting in favour of leave amongst English voters. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Bluespunk
Typo/grammar

[James105]

54 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

62% of Scottish voters voted remain. That is why they justifiably state they were dragged out. 
 

Brexit happened because of the near 2 million majority voting in favour of leave amongst English voters. 

Out of the 3,987,112 people in Scotland who were eligible to vote in the EU ref, only 1,661,191 voted to remain in the EU.   The reason Scotland is no longer in the EU is because not enough Scots wanted to vote to remain in the EU.  

 

Only 41% of eligible Scottish voters explicitly stated they wished to remain in the EU.   The rest either explicitly stated (or implicitly stated by not voting) that they did not wish to remain in the EU.  Nobody dragged them out of anything.   

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum

Edited November 28, 2022 by James105
added link

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, James105 said:

Out of the 3,987,112 people in Scotland who were eligible to vote in the EU ref, only 1,661,191 voted to remain in the EU.   The reason Scotland is no longer in the EU is because not enough Scots wanted to vote to remain in the EU.  

 

Only 41% of eligible Scottish voters explicitly stated they wished to remain in the EU.   The rest either explicitly stated (or implicitly stated by not voting) that they did not wish to remain in the EU.  Nobody dragged them out of anything.   

Link please?

Edited November 28, 2022 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

May I draw your attention to this page? You might spot something new there.

 

https://aseannow.com/forum/158-world-news/

Edited November 28, 2022 by Scott

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, James105 said:

Out of the 3,987,112 people in Scotland who were eligible to vote in the EU ref, only 1,661,191 voted to remain in the EU.   The reason Scotland is no longer in the EU is because not enough Scots wanted to vote to remain in the EU.  

 

Only 41% of eligible Scottish voters explicitly stated they wished to remain in the EU.   The rest either explicitly stated (or implicitly stated by not voting) that they did not wish to remain in the EU.  Nobody dragged them out of anything.   

Enough with the whataboutary of how many were eligible to vote.

 

62% of those voting voted remain...that is an overwhelming majority.

 

Scotland was dragged out because of an english near 2 million vote in favour of leave.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Bluespunk