Elderly couple die as car is submerged in klong - 94 year old man was behind the wheel

[Muzzique]

Because it slowly cut over in front of another driver doesn't look like a suicide or bad driving. More likely he was called by Buddha and the car just keep going on tickover.

 

Not much you can do. Sad but at 94 that's always a risk. 

 

If my time comes like that, the headline would be different

 

The 94 year old driver behind the wheel drowned but the 22 year old bar girl who was kneeling down in front of him at the time was able to escape with his final delivery.

 

Seriously though, life is not eternal so make each second count. May they both rest in peace.

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmm…. In this case the evidence clearly suggests he shouldnt have been driving. Sad way to go for a couple of their ages, but life is cheap in Thailand.

[hotchilli]

21 hours ago, Denim said:

Very sad but at least they went together.

At home would have been nicer.

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, alex8912 said:

94??? 

If of sound mind and physically able - why not?

[KhaoYai]

10 hours ago, steven100 said:

geeeze ....  KhaoYai,  while I sympathies with you he's frigin 94 ....  what lets just let him drive until he falls over the steering wheel  ...  

So what? How do you know that anyone is unfit to drive based purely on their age. If properly checked, there would be very few at that age that would be allowed to continue driving.  People in their 50's have heart attacks at the wheel - there is no particular age of risk, it is wholly dependent on their physical and mental state.  A registered physician should make that decision, not you or me.

[richard_smith237]

13 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

You come to this conclusion simply because of age? There are huge differences in both mental and physical condition across all age groups.

 

Much better to have a system like the UK does where a person's health and ability to drive is checked regularly after the age of 70.  Although I think the UK's system needs some strengthening, in principal, its the fair way to go.  You can't simply take the licence of a perfectly healthy person away simply because of their age.

I have been accused of being ‘ageist’ in the past for having similar opinions.

Particularly regarding older folk on motorcycles. 

 

Older drivers present an elevated risk to other road users, younger too, of course, but for different reasons. There should be no reason an older driver cannot drive if deemed fit to do so by a medical professional - that said, as mentioned the UK system is weak.

 

My father still drives (at 84), on fast British countryside lanes, cars passing each other 2 feet apart at 50mph (closing speeds of 100mph) - watching my father drive frightens me because he refused to realise he’s no longer young, his judgement and perception has slowed, he’s clearly aged beyond a point where I’m comfortable with the safety of his driving. We’ve had discussions, but he’s stubborn. When in the UK my Wife or I drive, I’ve already mentioned my Son will never be in the car with my father driving.

 

Yet, his Doctor deems him fit to drive every 3 years. It’s horrible to remove someones independence and freedoms by removing a licence, but hard decisions have to be made. 

 

In Worcester there is a man who’s remembered for killing his wife because he should not have been driving at 88 years old. He’s not remembered for the decades of wonderful work he did as mayor. 

 

Fortunately, the father and child in the 4x4 he’d hit head-on survived, they were airlifted to hospital. 

 

How did this accident happen ? he was too old - the person who been following the car earlier had already pulled over to phone the police and report an apparent drunk driver... (he wasn’t drunk at all - but his driving appeared that way) - that driver who’d pulled over, came across the accident 10mins later. 

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

8 hours ago, SunsetT said:

Never mind the windows! Instinct and common sense would be to open the doors.

Water pressure locks doors shut until car fills.

[richard_smith237]

13 hours ago, crazykopite said:

If it was a couple in their 30s or 40s would the same question be asked age is just a number a very unfortunate accident I can only hope that they held each other’s hand whilst the perished in the klong may they rest in peace ????????????????????????

IF it was a couple in their 30’s or 40’s its unlikely the accident would have happened in the same manner... in Thailand at least its more likely Somchai in his 30’s or 40’s would have fallen asleep at the wheel after too much Lao Khao... 

 

The manner in which the accident is described lends to the assumption that age and poor perception was a primary factor in the accident. 

 

 

[SunsetT]

2 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Water pressure locks doors shut until car fills.

Yes I know. It must be awful sitting in the dark and murk waiting for that to happen. Panic probably overwhelmed their presence of mind to do that, especially at their age...????.

[Lazybones]

15 hours ago, kokesaat said:

So, my Thai isn't much special, but นางงามเพ็ญ นาคสวัสดิ์ อายุ 79 ปี นั่งอยู่เบาะคนขับ และนายวิโรจน์ นาคสวัสดิ์ อายุ 94 ปี สามีนั่งเบาะข้างคนขับ tells me that the woman was in the driver's seat and the man was in the seat next to the driver.

 

Miss Ngampen Naksawat, 79 years old, sat in the driver's seat.  and Mr. Wiroj Naksawat, 94 years old, her husband sitting in the driver's seat

[KhaoYai]

24 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I have been accused of being ‘ageist’ in the past for having similar opinions.

Particularly regarding older folk on motorcycles...........................................

Sorry but I can't agree.  I'm in my 60's and ride a big bike in Thailand.  I ride almost as fast as I did in my 20's but there is a difference - I now pay far more attention to the conditions around me, in other words, I'm more careful. 

 

However, I know a guy who is a similar age to me and lives close to my home (Thai). He scares me - I've ridden out with him and to put it frankly, he's bloody useless.

 

My reactions are just as fast as they always were - and that's not just me saying that. I recently had to take a speed reaction test after being pulled over for speeding in the UK.  My local police force had a caravan set up just beyond the speed trap and instead of fining speeders, they sat offenders down at a video reaction test as an alternative to a fine & 3 points.  Try as they might, I beat their test every time. The test was supposed to show me how reaction times are a big factor in accidents at speed.

 

I wasn't expecting that and accept that some people may have slower reactions as they age, hence my preference for a UK style medical test after a certain age - UK style but as we both agree, upgraded.

 

There can be no justification for simply applying an age limit at which your licence is taken but the physical and mental eligibility to that licence must be thoroughly checked.

Edited December 9, 2022 by KhaoYai

[richard_smith237]

9 hours ago, SunsetT said:

Never mind the windows! Instinct and common sense would be to open the doors.

Instinct and common sense., eh ???... 

 

What does your instinct and common sense tell you about being able to open a car door with thousands of pounds of water pressure pushing back ??

[blackshadow]

18 hours ago, steven100 said:

At 94 he shouldn't have been behing the wheel. He could have killed someone.

HE DID HE killed himself and wife !!!

[steven100]

12 minutes ago, blackshadow said:

HE DID HE killed himself and wife !!!

I meant someone else other than himself or the wife.

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

My reactions are just as fast as they always were - and that's not just me saying that. I recently had to take a speed reaction test after being pulled over for speeding in the UK.  My local police force had a caravan set up just beyond the speed trap and instead of fining speeders, they sat offenders down at a video reaction test as an alternative to a fine & 3 points.  Try as they might, I beat their test every time. The test was supposed to show me how reaction times are a big factor in accidents at speed.

Your reactions may be fine and well within limits for driving / riding.

But, with certainty your reactions are not as fast as they were when you were younger, no ones are. 

Compare playing sports in your 20’s and early 30’s to 40’s...  theres a huge difference.

 

 

4 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I wasn't expecting that and accept that some people may have slower reactions as they age, hence my preference for a UK style medical test after a certain age - UK style but as we both agree, upgraded.

 

There can be no justification for simply applying an age limit at which your licence is taken but the physical and mental eligibility to that licence must be thoroughly checked.

I agree to ‘simply applying an age limit’.... But would also test that with the question... Why not let 15 year olds drive ? - some are more mature and quite capable drivers - limits have to be set somewhere.

I think 70 is a reasonable age limit for drivers to be medically evaluated before driving, 70 year olds may not like that - but a policy which is more safe for the populace is not going to be popular with those tested. 

I’d expect to see comments such as ‘at 80 years old I’m safer than 90% of the Thai’s driving around me’ and they might be quite correct, but we also need ‘aggregate regulation’. Of course, these regulations need to be backed up with better road safety in general - its wholly unfair to isolate age on its own when there are so many other more serious issues out there on Thailand roads. 

 

For motorcycling, reaction is more important, reaction time and making the correct reaction is of critical importance.

At 60 a motorcyclists reaction to an emergency situation in front of them is much slower than at 30 year old, the metric is dynamic and also relies on other factors such as experience not just of riding, but also of specifically riding in Thailand and then of course individual attitudes and character of the individual, risk taking etc.

 

I hope that when I am 60 years old I’m not so self-assured to falsely believe that my reactions are as good as they were in my 40’s, my perception will have altered and slowed. 

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I hope that when I am 60 years old I’m not so self-assured to falsely believe that my reactions are as good as they were in my 40’s, my perception will have altered and slowed. 

I do not falsely believe anything. I know my reactions are better, 1. from the police test and 2. because I start from a better position. I pay more attention to what's going on around me and therefore start from a position of greater awareness than I did in my younger days.

 

When I was younger I rarely paid attention to the fact that I was vulnerable and as is common with bikers, blamed car drivers for everything.  These days I start from a position that car drivers are not always aware of the speed that bikers are travelling at and also may not see bikes as easily as cars. Whereas ulitmately they may be to blame for an accident, its me that's going to get injured or worse so I am constantly on the look out. In other words - car drivers do pull out on bikes but that will never change so its up to me to watch out for it.

 

If I am like that then its not unreasonable to think that others also are - older riders are more likely to ride with the maturity that comes with age rather than the arrogance of youth.  However, I believe that thorough testing is required as people get older and I think the UK has the age when that begins (70) is about right. The testing though, needs to be far more rigorous and probably should include a reaction test.  I believe the UK's testing is also carried out every 3 years from 70 onwards - I think that needs reviewing.

 

I have to have a medical every 5 years for my UK HGV licence (from 45 onwards) and when I reach 65, that increases to anually.  I cannot understand why the same doesn't apply to all drivers.

 

The risk of serious medical events obviously increases with age but that is a generalisation - it would be wrong to lump everyone together and consider that just because one person may be more at risk of having a heart attack, for example, everyone in their age group is. That is simply not true and proper, thorough medical examination should identify most of those at risk.

 

Each and every one of us is a potential killer when we are on the road and holding a driving licence should be taken as a privilege not a right.

 

Through medical examinations are the best route, not a blanket ban based purely on age.

[TigerandDog]

On 12/8/2022 at 2:35 PM, steven100 said:

At 94 he shouldn't have been behing the wheel. He could have killed someone.

he did, his wife and himself.

[SheungWan]

The Spy Who Loved Me?

https://youtu.be/CykytBCLy24

[ben2talk]

On 12/8/2022 at 2:35 PM, steven100 said:

At 94 he shouldn't have been behing the wheel. He could have killed someone.

This is rather annoying TBH.

It's not clear what happened, maybe he had a heart attack (I had mine aged 46) - that's not a problem with age, right?

Maybe it was a suicide pact - that's not age related either.

 

However, my wife takes a bus from work and has to cross a road to get home. I'm sure that 99.9% of the drivers there are between 20 and 60 - and they either flash their lights and drive faster as you complete crossing the first two lanes with 2 lanes left (each side), or they just don't react at all.

 

This morning, someone stopped, and the vehicle 2 cars behind made a sandwich - so we had 3 completely wrecked cars because of the way Thai's generally behave on the road.

 

Last week it was 3 bikes, one stopped - the next one bumped him and fell sideways, and the last one hit his bike and went <deleted> over tit rolling across the crossing - he hurt his arm quite a bit in the process. Driving here it's difficult to say you wouldn't get caught out that way yourself because it's pretty much the norm.

 

So let's hear it again for the 94 year old who drives too slowly into a canal and hurts nobody except his passenger and himself.

 

Safety won't be improved by more rules, limiting age - or ability to drive when taking medicine (despite medical advice) unless there is some fear of traffic policing - only then can this stupid country move forward.

 

Until then, just smile and accept - anyone can drive pretty much any way they like and at any age that they like.

Edited December 12, 2022 by ben2talk

[ben2talk]

On 12/9/2022 at 7:40 AM, richard_smith237 said:

I have been accused of being ‘ageist’ in the past for having similar opinions.

For taking one case and applying it to everyone else. There was an old black woman who had an accident, so we should stop black people driving too, and certainly women shouldn't be allowed to drive.

 

On 12/9/2022 at 7:40 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Older drivers present an elevated risk to other road users, younger too, of course, but for different reasons. There should be no reason an older driver cannot drive if deemed fit to do so by a medical professional - that said, as mentioned the UK system is weak.

This is a UK related thread, I missed that point. I thought we were in Thailand where everyone can jump on a scooter or in a car and just drive with no worries about policing.

 

On 12/9/2022 at 7:40 AM, richard_smith237 said:

My father still drives (at 84), on fast British countryside lanes, cars passing each other 2 feet apart at 50mph (closing speeds of 100mph) - watching my father drive frightens me because he refused to realise he’s no longer young, his judgement and perception has slowed, he’s clearly aged beyond a point where I’m comfortable with the safety of his driving. We’ve had discussions, but he’s stubborn. When in the UK my Wife or I drive, I’ve already mentioned my Son will never be in the car with my father driving.

Again, irrelevant - bad driving at any age is not acceptable and the sooner the police pull him off the roads the better... more chance of that in the UK.

 

On 12/9/2022 at 7:40 AM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Yet, his Doctor deems him fit to drive every 3 years. It’s horrible to remove someones independence and freedoms by removing a licence, but hard decisions have to be made.

Hence the need for an addition to the general checkup, 3 years doctor's note and a refresher driving test at 80 to be repeated before they get to 90, 100 etc. But more likely, traffic police should become aware of bad drivers and weed them out.

 

On 12/9/2022 at 7:40 AM, richard_smith237 said:

In Worcester there is a man who’s remembered for killing his wife because he should not have been driving at 88 years old. He’s not remembered for the decades of wonderful work he did as mayor. 

 

Fortunately, the father and child in the 4x4 he’d hit head-on survived, they were airlifted to hospital. How did this accident happen ? he was too old - the person who been following the car earlier had already pulled over to phone the police and report an apparent drunk driver... (he wasn’t drunk at all - but his driving appeared that way) - that driver who’d pulled over, came across the accident 10mins later.

So these cars were travelling at a fair lick, we might assume, but still I can pull up a thousand more cases from the past month driving here with people nowhere near this age.

 

The most basic need isn't to think about how to make things better, or make new rules or regulations.

 

The most basic need is to have more competent traffic police, and stop thinking that AI cameras will make things better by catching fines from people changing lanes or speeding - whether it's safe or not.

[gerritkaew]

On 12/8/2022 at 9:04 PM, lopburi3 said:

How?  They were under water of unknown depth and it is almost impossible to break car windows or open doors while under water.

come on,, its not a kanal, and when under water easy to open the doors,, its an old car so no aut locking.

No, i would haved saved them iff i see it...

 

[richard_smith237]

On 12/12/2022 at 4:22 PM, ben2talk said:

On 12/9/2022 at 7:40 AM, richard_smith237 said:

I have been accused of being ‘ageist’ in the past for having similar opinions.

For taking one case and applying it to everyone else. There was an old black woman who had an accident, so we should stop black people driving too, and certainly women shouldn't be allowed to drive.

Dumbest strawman fallacy I’ve ever read so far....     

 

On 12/12/2022 at 4:22 PM, ben2talk said:

 

On 12/9/2022 at 7:40 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Older drivers present an elevated risk to other road users, younger too, of course, but for different reasons. There should be no reason an older driver cannot drive if deemed fit to do so by a medical professional - that said, as mentioned the UK system is weak.

This is a UK related thread, I missed that point. I thought we were in Thailand where everyone can jump on a scooter or in a car and just drive with no worries about policing.

You don’t think the same issues exist elsewhere and are handled differently.... You don’t think the fact that Thailand could apply learnings from elsewhere as a valid point ??

 

 

On 12/12/2022 at 4:22 PM, ben2talk said:

 

On 12/9/2022 at 7:40 AM, richard_smith237 said:

My father still drives (at 84), on fast British countryside lanes, cars passing each other 2 feet apart at 50mph (closing speeds of 100mph) - watching my father drive frightens me because he refused to realise he’s no longer young, his judgement and perception has slowed, he’s clearly aged beyond a point where I’m comfortable with the safety of his driving. We’ve had discussions, but he’s stubborn. When in the UK my Wife or I drive, I’ve already mentioned my Son will never be in the car with my father driving.

Expand  

Again, irrelevant - bad driving at any age is not acceptable and the sooner the police pull him off the roads the better... more chance of that in the UK.

Erm... you are confusing everyone now...  This is a UK related thread, I thought you’d missed that point ?? !!! and we weren’t permitted to use examples and bring other nations into the discussion (according to your point above). 

 

 

On 12/12/2022 at 4:22 PM, ben2talk said:

 

On 12/9/2022 at 7:40 AM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Yet, his Doctor deems him fit to drive every 3 years. It’s horrible to remove someones independence and freedoms by removing a licence, but hard decisions have to be made.

Hence the need for an addition to the general checkup, 3 years doctor's note and a refresher driving test at 80 to be repeated before they get to 90, 100 etc. But more likely, traffic police should become aware of bad drivers and weed them out.

 

On 12/9/2022 at 7:40 AM, richard_smith237 said:

In Worcester there is a man who’s remembered for killing his wife because he should not have been driving at 88 years old. He’s not remembered for the decades of wonderful work he did as mayor. 

 

Fortunately, the father and child in the 4x4 he’d hit head-on survived, they were airlifted to hospital. How did this accident happen ? he was too old - the person who been following the car earlier had already pulled over to phone the police and report an apparent drunk driver... (he wasn’t drunk at all - but his driving appeared that way) - that driver who’d pulled over, came across the accident 10mins later.

Expand  

So these cars were travelling at a fair lick, we might assume, but still I can pull up a thousand more cases from the past month driving here with people nowhere near this age.

 

The most basic need isn't to think about how to make things better, or make new rules or regulations.

 

The most basic need is to have more competent traffic police, and stop thinking that AI cameras will make things better by catching fines from people changing lanes or speeding - whether it's safe or not.

Agreed....    and those police may well find more people ‘of age’ unfit to drive...  but at least dealign with every situation at face value removes the ‘ageist’ issue - but age remains an issue, people do deteriorate... should we wait for people to become dangerous before they are stopped from driving ?

 

There is no right or wrong answer here... just a series of uncomfortable truths that need to be addressed... from the fact that peoples ability deteriorates with age, to the inability of the police to police this effectively.... 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

On 12/13/2022 at 7:06 PM, gerritkaew said:

come on,, its not a kanal, and when under water easy to open the doors,,

its an old car so no aut locking.

No, i would haved saved them iff i see it...

 

Why type of car was it that you escaped from while it was underwater ???

[freedomnow]

So sad....peaceful in sleep best way vs something like that.

That is how my dad went, though it was induced.

[gerritkaew]

On 12/13/2022 at 7:06 PM, gerritkaew said:

come on,, its not a kanal, and when under water easy to open the doors,, its an old car so no aut locking.

No, i would haved saved them iff i see it...

 

Iff you see the film from a car and off the street,, both windows where open and the car sink after more then one minute. People just look at it and do nothing,, Nothing.  

[jacko45k]

On 12/8/2022 at 2:35 PM, steven100 said:

At 94 he shouldn't have been behing the wheel. He could have killed someone.

Sort of applies from 17 onwards here!