Could this corruption scandal signal the end of the EU ?

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The Daily Telegraph is a Conservative newspaper and the UK Government  is a moderate Conservative government, now enough of your nonsense  about "extreme right wing"  UK newspaper and Governments

It's clear that you consider that great nonsense poem, The Hunting of the Snark, as your reference for rules of evidence:

"Just the place for a Snark!" the Bellman cried,

   As he landed his crew with care;

Supporting each man on the top of the tide

   By a finger entwined in his hair.

"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:

   That alone should encourage the crew.

Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:

   What I tell you three times is true."

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43909/the-hunting-of-the-snark

Edited December 19, 2022 by placeholder

[JonnyF]

Suitcases full of cash lol. ????

 

Anyone with any knowledge of the undemocratic cabal that is the EU knows about the corruption, it's been designed that way. But even a Eurosceptic like me thought they might be a bit more sophisticated than suitcases of cash and a murky figure known as The Giant. ????

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/suitcases-of-cash-mps-arrested-and-the-giant-the-bribery-scandal-that-has-shaken-the-eu-20221215-p5c6ha.html

 

The whole thing is hilarious. Thank goodness we got out before the house of cards crumbles (and make no mistake, the house of cards is assembled from a trick deck). 

[placeholder]

27 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Suitcases full of cash lol. ????

 

Anyone with any knowledge of the undemocratic cabal that is the EU knows about the corruption, it's been designed that way. But even a Eurosceptic like me thought they might be a bit more sophisticated than suitcases of cash and a murky figure known as The Giant. ????

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/suitcases-of-cash-mps-arrested-and-the-giant-the-bribery-scandal-that-has-shaken-the-eu-20221215-p5c6ha.html

 

The whole thing is hilarious. Thank goodness we got out before the house of cards crumbles (and make no mistake, the house of cards is assembled from a trick deck). 

Always impressive to cite the future as evidence. That is, if you're a time traveler.

[JonnyF]

29 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Always impressive to cite the future as evidence. That is, if you're a time traveler.

The suitcases of cash that were found are in the future? Fascinating.

 

As for the EU crumbling, it's called a prediction. Predictions involve future events.

 

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The suitcases of cash that were found are in the future? Fascinating.

 

As for the EU crumbling, it's called a prediction. Predictions involve future events.

 

Treating a prediction like a settled fact in support of an argument is nonsense.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Suitcases full of cash lol. ????

 

Anyone with any knowledge of the undemocratic cabal that is the EU knows about the corruption, it's been designed that way. But even a Eurosceptic like me thought they might be a bit more sophisticated than suitcases of cash and a murky figure known as The Giant. ????

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/suitcases-of-cash-mps-arrested-and-the-giant-the-bribery-scandal-that-has-shaken-the-eu-20221215-p5c6ha.html

 

The whole thing is hilarious. Thank goodness we got out before the house of cards crumbles (and make no mistake, the house of cards is assembled from a trick deck). 

All we need to know now is, which corrupt ‘house of cards’ will crumble.

 

And it’s not in dispute that there is a house of cards assembled from a trick deck.

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[it is what it is]

OP, you need to keep up, there has been massive corruption in the EU since it began. so to answer your question, no.

[Scott]

Troll post reported and removed.

 

[RayC]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Anyone with any knowledge of the undemocratic cabal that is the EU knows about the corruption, it's been designed that way. 

If you have some of this knowledge then perhaps, you would be kind enough to share it, and explain how the EU is an "undemocratic cabal"? How it - the institution rather than certain  individuals - is corrupt (in its' design)?

 

(Please don't reply with dictionary definitions of "corruption", "cabal", etc. I know the meaning of these words. Thanks).

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

It's clear that you consider that great nonsense poem, The Hunting of the Snark, as your reference for rules of evidence:

 

Some Government policies would be sufficient .

Links that show the Governments whatever 

I know it will be pointless asking you, as you will just post some irrelevant link or some nonsensical poem 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Some Government policies would be sufficient .

Links that show the Governments whatever 

I know it will be pointless asking you, as you will just post some irrelevant link or some nonsensical poem 

I have already given you a link to that information. Twice.

[candide]

17 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Sure.

 

The way such senior positions are "selected" rather than directed elected by the citizens of EU countries would be a good starting point when analyzing "Democracy" in the EU.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/07/03/this-is-what-eu-democracy-looks-like/

 

The president of the Council is directly elected in his country. The president of the EP is directly elected and the president of the Commission (equivalent to cabinet) is appointed by elected national government.

Of course, it's much more democratic in the UK with an unelected Chief of State, and an unelected Chamber of Lords. Lol!

 

 The most funny is that Brexiteers have justified leaving by an alleged cabal in the EU to become a federal state, and are also criticising the EU for not being a federal state (which would be de facto the case with an elected president as in the U.S.).

[Mac Mickmanus]

17 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I have already given you a link to that information. Twice.

That was the irrelevant link that I was referring to .

[placeholder]

41 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That was the irrelevant link that I was referring to .

Given that the headline of the article is this,

"Discipline the poor, protect the rich – it’s the same old Tories, same old class war"

it's clear that either you're peddling falsehoods on purpose or you haven't read the article

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Given that the headline of the article is this,

"Discipline the poor, protect the rich – it’s the same old Tories, same old class war"

it's clear that either you're peddling falsehoods on purpose or you haven't read the article

Your claim was the the U.K Government is extreme far right and your quoted sentence  above doesn't back that  statement up .

     You made a false claim 

[placeholder]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Your claim was the the U.K Government is extreme far right and your quoted sentence  above doesn't back that  statement up .

     You made a false claim 

A government that coddles the rich and slams the poor isn't extreme right? Hmmm...

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Suitcases full of cash lol. ????

 

Anyone with any knowledge of the undemocratic cabal that is the EU knows about the corruption, it's been designed that way. But even a Eurosceptic like me thought they might be a bit more sophisticated than suitcases of cash and a murky figure known as The Giant. ????

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/suitcases-of-cash-mps-arrested-and-the-giant-the-bribery-scandal-that-has-shaken-the-eu-20221215-p5c6ha.html

 

The whole thing is hilarious. Thank goodness we got out before the house of cards crumbles (and make no mistake, the house of cards is assembled from a trick deck). 

Well done. You managed to get this back on topic.

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, placeholder said:

Good point. Now if there were a major political party that mostly subscribed to the editorial stances of the Telegraph, your observation wouldn't make much sense. But the governance of the UK could never sink that low, could it? Just a rhetorical question. Of course it couldn't.

I do not believe there is job or profession in the world without corruption, you will get it from farmers, dustbinmen right up to bankers and the very top of governments. To stop doing anything because of corruption will never work, it will always be there.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

A government that coddles the rich and slams the poor isn't extreme right? Hmmm...

Both the Tories and the labour party are very similar, except that the Labour Party is supposed to be the party of the working class which it has never been in my adult lifetime.

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

I do not believe there is job or profession in the world without corruption, you will get it from farmers, dustbinmen right up to bankers and the very top of governments. To stop doing anything because of corruption will never work, it will always be there.

The question is how dedicated are the powers that be to keeping it in check.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

Both the Tories and the labour party are very similar, except that the Labour Party is supposed to be the party of the working class which it has never been in my adult lifetime.

You think they're so similar? I doubt the NHS would be in the dire straits it's in today of Labour were in charge. I don't believe that Labour would have cut the tax rates of the wealthiest tranche of society and paid for it by inadequately funding the NHS. I don't think Labour would have massively cut or cutting Social Benefits. I don't think hunger would be as rampant among the poor and working classes as it is now. I don't think that energy costs for the massively wealthy would be subsidized at the same rate as they are for everyone else. I think that those most in need would get a far better break on electricity even if that meant some billionaire in Mayfair had to pay full freight for heating their pool.

[RayC]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

That this news is not really news because this is not the first time that a major EU fraud scandal has been exposed. The link below shows EU 'mismanagement' of its own budget - not for the first or last time - and this is why EU audits were not fully approved and signed of for so many years. Because of these events then it is likely that corruption is the rule rather than the exception.

 

   https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24823795

Did you read the content of your own link?

 

If so then you will have seen the following: "The auditor's report stressed that 'errors' were not a euphemism for fraud" and that "our audit of the EU budget is not directly comparable to audits done by other organisations". 

 

Therefore, there is nothing in the link to support your assertion that "corruption (in the EU) is the rule rather than the exception".

 

I assume that the tea leaves confirmed that there will be mismanagement in the future?

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by RayC
Deletion

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, RayC said:

Did you read the content of your own link?

 

If so then you will have seen the following: "The auditor's report stressed that 'errors' were not a euphemism for fraud" and that "our audit of the EU budget is not directly comparable to audits done by other organisations". 

 

Therefore, there is nothing in the link to support your assertion that "corruption (in the EU) is the rule rather than the exception".

 

I assume that the tea leaves confirmed that there will be mismanagement in the future?

 

Did you read the two links in my first post? You know, the one when you asked: "What's your point?"

[JonnyF]

Qatar now threatening the EU that this issue could harm energy talks.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/qatar-warns-brussels-bribery-allegations-could-impact-energy-deals-with-europe-11671381521

 

Oh dear. Terrible timing for the EU with the war in Ukraine and it's effects on energy supply. It never rains, but it pours.

[RayC]

9 hours ago, nauseus said:

Did you read the two links in my first post? You know, the one when you asked: "What's your point?"

Where do you think that my quotes came from? (They were from your BBC link).

 

To answer your question directly: Yes, I read the BBC link in its' entirety and the 'Introduction' and 'Conclusion' to the 'Parliamentary Report'. If I missed something pertinent in the main body of the report which supports your view please direct me to it because - as far I can be see - there is nothing in either link which supports your contention that "corruption (in the EU) is the rule rather than the exception".

 

I can only think of 3 possible conclusions: (1) You didn't read the links before you posted them (2a) You read the links, but didn't understand the content (2b) You read the links and now realise that they do not support your assertion.

 

Was this post to which I am replying an attempt at deflection by any chance?

[RayC]

48 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Qatar now threatening the EU that this issue could harm energy talks.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/qatar-warns-brussels-bribery-allegations-could-impact-energy-deals-with-europe-11671381521

 

Oh dear. Terrible timing for the EU with the war in Ukraine and it's effects on energy supply. It never rains, but it pours.

I agree. Terrible timing and bad news often seems to come in batches.

 

As an aside, I've never understood why some people appear to rejoice in others misfortune.

[nauseus]

18 minutes ago, RayC said:

Where do you think that my quotes came from? (They were from your BBC link).

 

To answer your question directly: Yes, I read the BBC link in its' entirety and the 'Introduction' and 'Conclusion' to the 'Parliamentary Report'. If I missed something pertinent in the main body of the report which supports your view please direct me to it because - as far I can be see - there is nothing in either link which supports your contention that "corruption (in the EU) is the rule rather than the exception".

 

I can only think of 3 possible conclusions: (1) You didn't read the links before you posted them (2a) You read the links, but didn't understand the content (2b) You read the links and now realise that they do not support your assertion.

 

Was this post to which I am replying an attempt at deflection by any chance?

My first post had two links, not the BBC one. That first post is no longer on the board. This is a waste of time.

[roo860]

Plenty on here seem to rejoice at anything negative said about the UK. 

[JonnyF]

20 minutes ago, RayC said:

I agree. Terrible timing and bad news often seems to come in batches.

 

As an aside, I've never understood why some people appear to rejoice in others misfortune.

I don't rejoice in their misfortune.

 

However, the EU's attempts to break up the UK following the Brexit vote (and generally make things as difficult as possible for us) certainly left a sour taste in the mouth so let's just say my sympathy for them is limited at this point in time, especially as it was their own corruption that led to the current situation. 

[JonnyF]

16 minutes ago, roo860 said:

Plenty on here seem to rejoice at anything negative said about the UK. 

There is certainly a lot of anti-UK sentiment on the board.