Ukraine war: Zelensky's visit shows neither Ukraine nor US want peace, Russia says

[webfact]

 

By Phelan Chatterjee
BBC News

Russia has strongly criticised the visit to Washington by Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky, accusing the US of fighting an indirect war against it.

 

President Joe Biden has pledged $1.85bn (£1.45bn) of military aid for Ukraine - including an advanced missile system to help guard against Russian attacks.

 

In a defiant address to US lawmakers, Mr Zelensky welcomed the assistance. But Russia's US ambassador said these "provocative actions" would lead to an escalation with severe consequences.

 

Full story: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64066584

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2022-12-23

[Tug]

Oh no I disagree it’s Russia that wants war leave Ukraine Putin then there will be peace obviously 

[biggles45]

They don't want peace..... says the country that invaded them, launches missiles at civilians etc. Maybe if you stopped all this and just left them alone peace might  happen by itself? 

[placeholder]

And what does Russia's "visit" to Ukraine tell us about its desire for peace?

[malathione]

Sure Ukraine wants peace. It wants peace with all its territory back including Crimea, war reparations for rebuilding the country, war crimes proceedings, etc. As long as the West does not get fatigued... #NAFO

[ozimoron]

Just now, malathione said:

Sure Ukraine wants peace. It wants peace with all its territory back including Crimea, war reparations for rebuilding the country, war crimes proceedings, etc. As long as the West does not get fatigued... #NAFO

Please explain your hashtag.

 

Reparations will help Ukraine get back to its original economic situation before Russia started on its war crime spree. They will also stop Russia from ever being a threat to world peace again.

[malathione]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Please explain your hashtag.

 

Reparations will help Ukraine get back to its original economic situation before Russia started on its war crime spree. They will also stop Russia from ever being a threat to world peace again.

Exactly so. Ukraine is going to need a massive rebuilding effort once all is said and done.

 

As for the hashtag, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAFO_(group). I hope that does not contravene any AN posting guidelines. 

[ballpoint]

From the article linked in the OP:

 

""The talks in Washington have shown that neither Ukraine nor the United States is seeking peace. They are simply intent on continuing the fighting," said Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova".

 

This is getting surreal.  Those war mongering Ukrainians, intent on fighting rather than lying down and letting the Russians walk all over their country.  How dare they stand up to them.  All they want to do is have a peaceful outcome, one that makes Russia larger by 603,700 km², and then why not add a few tiny little countries in the Baltic to it as well?  No one will even miss them.  And, after that, a few more...

[riclag]

How many billions to rebuild that nation if and when there is a compromise!

There are questions Americans have in regards to how our money was spent !

 

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/the-u-s-congress-rejected-the-request-of-republicans-to-audit-aid-to-ukraine/

 

 

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, riclag said:

How many billions to rebuild that nation if and when there is a compromise!

There are questions Americans have in regards to how our money was spent !

 

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/the-u-s-congress-rejected-the-request-of-republicans-to-audit-aid-to-ukraine/

 

It will be trillions. Russia is finished as an economic power of any proportions.

[riclag]

19 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It will be trillions. Russia is finished as an economic power of any proportions.

Do you think Mr Z  is setting a side any , how ever small ,of the billions he already got from the world for rebuilding . Me thinks not.

Edited December 23, 2022 by riclag

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

Do you think Mr Z  is setting a side any , how ever small ,of the billions he already got from the world for rebuilding . Me thinks not.

Most of the money is in military equipment. And no, I refuse to believe it unless you can back up your claims with anything other than right wing allegations. I live in a fact based world.

[jingjai9]

Here are the victims of the "warm war between the Russia and US

 

"Since Russia invaded Ukraine on 24 February, the US military estimates that at least 100,000 Russian and 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed or injured, along with some 40,000 civilian deaths.

The UN has recorded 7.8 million people as refugees from Ukraine across Europe, including Russia"

 

Add to this the US taxpayers who fund the endless wars that subsidize the military-industrial complex.

 

I wish the US and Russia could be as clever negotiating a peace treaty as they are at composing rhetoric to ensure the conflict continues, for example the endless volley of "severe consequences" both sides bark out.

Ukraine is a pawn in the US - Russian "warm" war. Both Russia and the US share the blame in prolonging the destruction Ukrainian citizens have suffered daily over the last 10 months.

 

Here are the questions that need to be answered by The US and Russia:

In the early 1990s, didn't the west agree not to extend NATO membership toward Russia after the USSR fell?
Was invading Ukraine Putin's only choice of action in challenging western influence that threatens Russian security or the well being of Russians living in Ukraine or Moldova? Putin got Crimea wasn't that enough?

 

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, jingjai9 said:

Here are the victims of the "warm war between the Russia and US

 

"Since Russia invaded Ukraine on 24 February, the US military estimates that at least 100,000 Russian and 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed or injured, along with some 40,000 civilian deaths.

The UN has recorded 7.8 million people as refugees from Ukraine across Europe, including Russia"

 

Add to this the US taxpayers who fund the endless wars that subsidize the military-industrial complex.

 

I wish the US and Russia could be as clever negotiating a peace treaty as they are at composing rhetoric to ensure the conflict continues, for example the endless volley of "severe consequences" both sides bark out.

Ukraine is a pawn in the US - Russian "warm" war. Both Russia and the US share the blame in prolonging the destruction Ukrainian citizens have suffered daily over the last 10 months.

 

Here are the questions that need to be answered by The US and Russia:

In the early 1990s, didn't the west agree not to extend NATO membership toward Russia after the USSR fell?
Was invading Ukraine Putin's only choice of action in challenging western influence that threatens Russian security or the well being of Russians living in Ukraine or Moldova? Putin got Crimea wasn't that enough?

 

In reply to your questions:

 

In the early 1990s, didn't the west agree not to extend NATO membership toward Russia after the USSR fell?

 

No, here is some information for you:

‘There was no promise not to enlarge NATO’

https://hls.harvard.edu/today/there-was-no-promise-not-to-enlarge-nato/

 

"The U.S.S.R. was never offered a formal guarantee on the limits of NATO expansion post-1990," John Lough, the research associate who authored the section, wrote. "Moscow merely distorts history to help preserve an anti-Western consensus at home."

https://www.rferl.org/a/nato-expansion-russia-mislead/31263602.html

 

Your second question:

 

Was invading Ukraine Putin's only choice of action in challenging western influence that threatens Russian security or the well being of Russians living in Ukraine or Moldova? Putin got Crimea wasn't that enough?

 

In what way was he threatened? He claims there was genocide of ethnic Russians going on. Total fabrication.

 

The total number of civilian casualties recorded by OHCHR in 2021 has totaled 110: 25 killed (16 men, two women, three boys, one girl and three adults whose sex is not yet known) and 85 injured (56 men, 21 women, six boys and two girls), a 26.2 per cent decrease compared with 2020 (149: 26 killed and 123 injured), and the lowest annual civilian casualties for the entire conflict period.

 

The above includes both Ukrainian and ethnic Russians

 

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

24 minutes ago, jingjai9 said:

Here are the victims of the "warm war between the Russia and US

 

"Since Russia invaded Ukraine on 24 February, the US military estimates that at least 100,000 Russian and 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed or injured, along with some 40,000 civilian deaths.

The UN has recorded 7.8 million people as refugees from Ukraine across Europe, including Russia"

 

Add to this the US taxpayers who fund the endless wars that subsidize the military-industrial complex.

 

I wish the US and Russia could be as clever negotiating a peace treaty as they are at composing rhetoric to ensure the conflict continues, for example the endless volley of "severe consequences" both sides bark out.

Ukraine is a pawn in the US - Russian "warm" war. Both Russia and the US share the blame in prolonging the destruction Ukrainian citizens have suffered daily over the last 10 months.

 

Here are the questions that need to be answered by The US and Russia:

In the early 1990s, didn't the west agree not to extend NATO membership toward Russia after the USSR fell?
Was invading Ukraine Putin's only choice of action in challenging western influence that threatens Russian security or the well being of Russians living in Ukraine or Moldova? Putin got Crimea wasn't that enough?

 

NATO has taken particular care to make sure Russia can't make that accusation. They have kept troops and missiles far from the border.

[Eric Loh]

14 minutes ago, jingjai9 said:

Was invading Ukraine Putin's only choice of action in challenging western influence that threatens Russian security or the well being of Russians living in Ukraine or Moldova? Putin got Crimea wasn't that enough?

Putin compared himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back all Russia land. His grandeur ambition to to bring Soveit Union back together. Western influence is just his excuse. He has invaded and annexed Georgia and Crimea without much military response and fight back. Ukraine is Europe's last stand to send a strong signal to Putin that his imperialistic ambition will not met unchallenged. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

Putin compared himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back all Russia land. His grandeur ambition to to bring Soveit Union back together. Western influence is just his excuse. He has invaded and annexed Georgia and Crimea without much military response and fight back. Ukraine is Europe's last stand to send a strong signal to Putin that his imperialistic ambition will not met unchallenged. 

I think it's a bout time that the US followed the EU lead in declaring Russia a state sponsor of terrorism and draw a line in the sand at attacking civilian infrastructure which is a Geneva Convention war crime. They should also move NATO ships into the Baltic Sea with cruise missiles. Russia will back down.

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, generealty said:

Most of the money is in military equipment. And no, I refuse to believe it unless you can back up your claims with anything other than right wing allegations. I live in a fact based world.

 

You may well be right, but as he was a comedian prior to becoming President, it's hard to imagine how he has amassed a $780 million of personal wealth. Something doesn't feel right.

I live in a fact based world.

 

He was a lawyer first, then comedian who had his own TV production company with series sales to Netflix and other networks.

 

Even with the Pandora allegations he has no where near that figure.

 

Fake: Zelensky’s Fortune Estimated at $850 Million

There is absolutely no evidence that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has a net worth of $850 million. According to several authoritative sources, Zelensky’s combined fortune could amount to some $20-25 million.

Citing the Dutch right-wing populist Forum for Democracy party as their source, Russian media are claiming that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky may have a net worth of $850 million. Russian propagandist publications RIA Novosti, RT, Krasnaya Vesna, Argumenty I Fakty and others are all disseminating this story. Representatives of the Forum for Democracy Party who are close to the Kremlin are also claiming without any evidence, that Zelensky earned most of his money after becoming  president.

https://www.stopfake.org/en/fake-zelensky-s-fortune-estimated-at-850-million/

 

 

If you live in a fact based world prove your claims.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[eisfeld]

14 minutes ago, generealty said:

You may well be right, but as he was a comedian prior to becoming President, it's hard to imagine how he has amassed a $780 million of personal wealth. Something doesn't feel right.

It doesn't feel right because he doesn't. It's Russian propaganda.

[generealty]

OK interesting and if true I hold my hands up and say I have read wrong info. good to be corrected sometimes.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, generealty said:

OK interesting and if true I hold my hands up and say I have read wrong info. good to be corrected sometimes.

The questions, remains, though, who was the source of this information, and why did you believe it?  It's the kind of number that should arouse at least a bit of scepticism. 

[TKDfella]

Russia was the aggressor and that's it, period. There is nothing Putin can say to change that. Should other nations give support to Ukraine? That's a different question. The USA is not the only nation supplying Ukraine...for example, didn't Putin claim he could destroy GB with one nuke if it continued to support Ukraine? This war will end if one side demolishes the other or...Russia pulls out. Well, I suppose Ukraine could surrender but I think that is unlikely.

[riclag]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Most of the money is in military equipment. And no, I refuse to believe it unless you can back up your claims with anything other than right wing allegations. I live in a fact based world.

You misunderstood ! My bad! I should’ve put a question mark .Do you think he is setting aside any funds for his county to rebuild?Nothing nefarious or right  wing about saving money for the country’s future! 
 

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, riclag said:

You misunderstood ! My bad! I should’ve put a question mark .Do you think he is setting aside any funds for his county to rebuild?Nothing nefarious or right  wing about saving money for the country’s future! 
 

 

Under a European Commission proposal, the EU would shift the liquid assets of the Russian state that were frozen under sanctions into a fund its rebuilding costs

[ozimoron]

20 minutes ago, riclag said:

You misunderstood ! My bad! I should’ve put a question mark .Do you think he is setting aside any funds for his county to rebuild?Nothing nefarious or right  wing about saving money for the country’s future!

Adding a question mark doesn't give the comment any more credence. No, I don't think he's setting aside a single razoo to build the country. He's spending every cent on fighting the orcs.

 

You alleged Zelensky is corrupt but now you deflect and can't won't put a link where your mouth is.

Edited December 23, 2022 by ozimoron

[Saanim]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

No, here is some information for you:

‘There was no promise not to enlarge NATO’

https://hls.harvard.edu/today/there-was-no-promise-not-to-enlarge-nato/

No promise except the "not one inch eastwards"...

[billd766]

4 hours ago, riclag said:

Do you think Mr Z  is setting a side any , how ever small ,of the billions he already got from the world for rebuilding . Me thinks not.

Not everybody thinks the way that you do, fortunately.

 

I don't think that he is putting stuff aside.

 

IMHO it is all going to help both the military and the civilian to be fed and kept warm this winter, due to Putin's attacks on the civilian infrastructure, which is a war crime, for which he should be punished by spending the rest of his natural life in an unheated prison cell.

[Saanim]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Most of the money is in military equipment. And no, I refuse to believe it unless you can back up your claims with anything other than right wing allegations. I live in a fact based world.

Yes, that's right. But not always in military equipment staying in Ukraine. That's what recently was claimed in UN SC.

 

And I do not think any right wingers were there present. Mainly the African leaders afraid of those weapons used by insurgents in their countries.    

[billd766]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Most of the money is in military equipment. And no, I refuse to believe it unless you can back up your claims with anything other than right wing allegations. I live in a fact based world.

Some information for you, fact based.

 

Actually there is more humanitarian and financial aid than military aid.

 

https://www.csis.org/analysis/aid-ukraine-explained-six-charts

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/

 

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

[Bkk Brian]

14 minutes ago, Saanim said:

No promise except the "not one inch eastwards"...

You have a habit of editing my posts, next time you do it, it will be reported