English language ability and the Thai professional class

[cleopatra2]

49 minutes ago, BananaBandit said:

I don't know for sure.  But I would assume an advanced degree professional in a world-class city like Bangkok would have some English proficiency.  Also, someone like a clinical psychologist would likely have significant experience with research articles and other such materials that often appear exclusively in English.

The assumption is incorrect. 

The first issue is to define the terms proficiency and fluent. 

In the clinical profession many Thai words already exist and do not require an English transliteration.

 

[Freddy42OZ]

12 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do they use their English?

I also learned Latin and Frensh in school. I don't remember much of that. If people don't use their skills then after a while there are no skills anymore.

 

And if these Thais are higher up on the social ladder, do they want to be heard using broken English? If you talk i.e. with a lawyer and he uses broken English (because he was never that good and he forgot 80%), what do you think? Do you think he at least tries and that is great? Or is it more likely that when you hear some stumbled English that you think: He sounds stupid, he must be stupid, I am not going to hire that stupid guy.

Sometimes it's better to pretend to not talk a foreign language at all instead of: My fried you, how is she?

 

Nice to see someone else you went to a good school.   

[Freddy42OZ]

16 hours ago, BananaStrong said:

8 years, met TWO fluent English speakers born in Thailand.   I've talked with about 30 doctors in hospitals, and some have told me their English is "advanced."  It was equivalent to a 5-year old.  I would guess there is a 90% chance any urologist you meet will have only a very, very basic understanding of English.  

I have a number of Thai friends who speak English fluently.  A few even have British accents from going to public schools in the UK.  

There are plenty of Thais who speak better English than most of the working class blokes who come to Thailand.

[herfiehandbag]

I am pretty much in Buffalo Country, rural Chiang Rai

 

The doctors and nurses at my local hospital, where I have been going daily for treatment, mostly speak some English. I am often surprised by the ability of all sorts - a local petrol pump attendant for example. The girls in my local 7/11 make a point of trying their English out - basic standard but the important thing is they try.

 

I live next door to the local school. The children like to try out their English - most seem to learn through Google translate and Facebook and so on. I listen patiently and if they make a serious mistake I gently put them right (I am a retired teacher); bizarrely the English teacher can't or won't speak it. I suspect he is worried about losing face, the children are happy to rabbit away. I have rather become the "go to resource" for homework!

 

if they try, it's remarkable how they can communicate.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

That figures, if the Thai language was not full of these stupid tones, my Thai would be fluent long before now.

There's a million stories; i know one farang who kept saying 'arai talay', what e was trying to ask was how old was the young lady.

 

Just one point 'talay' means sea or ocean in Thai.

 

The farang was insistant he was coorect until an older Thai lady politely told the farang that he was saying sea or ocean rather than anything connected to age, she insisted he listen and correctly repeat the words he wanted. 

 

Next conversation, many wrong words again.

 

Friends, Thai and farang, have given up trying to help him learn some Thai. 

 

[1FinickyOne]

5 hours ago, BananaStrong said:

I came here for the weather and to relax,

'I came for the waters... I was misled.' Bogie in Casablanca

 

2 hours ago, BananaBandit said:

a clinical psychologist would likely have significant experience with research articles and other such materials

Yes, they can read but cannot often pronounce correctly - - where are the tones, they might be thinking?  

[DJ54]

I go to a Government hospital once a month …. Both Dr. I see speak English as do the their nurses 

[zzaa09]

18 hours ago, sidjameson said:

I bet a higher percentage of Thai's can speak English than the western foreigners living in Thailand can speak Thai.

Shhhhh.....don't wanna show Farang up for what they truly are.

????

[GammaGlobulin]

In reply to the OP's question:

 

How important might it be, comparatively, for a urologist to speak proper English?, compared to a phylollogist? 

 

The answer is obvious. 

 

 

[jvs]

4 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

if they try, it's remarkable how they can communicate.

This has to go to quote of the day!

So it goes for the rest of the world also,if there is a willingness to

understand other people there would be so much less suffering.

[GammaGlobulin]

39 minutes ago, jvs said:

This has to go to quote of the day!

So it goes for the rest of the world also,if there is a willingness to

understand other people there would be so much less suffering.

Even if one were to be able to to understand the likes of Sammy Bankman-Thief, how would this understanding lessen the suffering he caused to millions? 

 

 

[BananaBandit]

6 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

7 hours ago, BananaBandit said:

I don't know for sure.  But I would assume an advanced degree professional in a world-class city like Bangkok would have some English proficiency.  Also, someone like a clinical psychologist would likely have significant experience with research articles and other such materials that often appear exclusively in English.

The assumption is incorrect. 

The first issue is to define the terms proficiency and fluent. 

In the clinical profession many Thai words already exist and do not require an English transliteration.

Prominent research publications tend to appear in English.  That's a very different matter from whether or not terms in a specific field require English transliteration.

[BananaBandit]

6 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

The first issue is to define the terms proficiency and fluent. 

fluency:        

able to watch an English-language news program and understand most of it

 

proficiency:   

able to speak English at a level exceeding that of a typical farang in Thailand

Edited December 24, 2022 by BananaBandit

[GammaGlobulin]

19 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do they use their English?

I also learned Latin and Frensh in school. I don't remember much of that. If people don't use their skills then after a while there are no skills anymore.

 

And if these Thais are higher up on the social ladder, do they want to be heard using broken English? If you talk i.e. with a lawyer and he uses broken English (because he was never that good and he forgot 80%), what do you think? Do you think he at least tries and that is great? Or is it more likely that when you hear some stumbled English that you think: He sounds stupid, he must be stupid, I am not going to hire that stupid guy.

Sometimes it's better to pretend to not talk a foreign language at all instead of: My fried you, how is she?

Pardon your "Frensh", I guess. 

 

 

[BananaBandit]

7 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

8 hours ago, BananaBandit said:

I don't know for sure.  But I would assume an advanced degree professional in a world-class city like Bangkok would have some English proficiency.  

The assumption is incorrect. 

maybe it is

[sidjameson]

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

In reply to the OP's question:

 

How important might it be, comparatively, for a urologist to speak proper English?, compared to a phylollogist? 

 

The answer is obvious. 

 

 

A phylologist in Thailand needs only Thai surely.

[GammaGlobulin]

18 minutes ago, sidjameson said:

A phylologist in Thailand needs only Thai surely.

By your reasoning, a Thai urologist needs only a long catheter. 

 

I think that this reasoning is not sound. 

 

But, the question is... 

 

Do you understand the pun? 

 

And, do you understand the pain? 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

7 hours ago, DJ54 said:

I go to a Government hospital once a month …. Both Dr. I see speak English as do the their nurses 

But, are they able to read books written by the Brontë sisters? 

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

4 hours ago, jvs said:

This has to go to quote of the day!

So it goes for the rest of the world also,if there is a willingness to

understand other people there would be so much less suffering.

You have taken that "quote" entirely out of context.

 

I was, quite clearly, talking about Thais attempting to speak English, not making a philosophical point about the ills of the world!

[GammaGlobulin]

Is punning completely beyond the ken of the Farang Pub, as we once knew it? 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

3 hours ago, BananaBandit said:

Prominent research publications tend to appear in English.  That's a very different matter from whether or not terms in a specific field require English transliteration.

Maybe you have had too much Christmas cheer. 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

10 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

The assumption is incorrect. 

The first issue is to define the terms proficiency and fluent. 

In the clinical profession many Thai words already exist and do not require an English transliteration.

 

Proficiency and fluency. 

 

I think you meant. 

 

When correcting another, it's always best to be correct, oneself. 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

10 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

The assumption is incorrect. 

The first issue is to define the terms proficiency and fluent. 

In the clinical profession many Thai words already exist and do not require an English transliteration.

 

The PRESUMPTION is incorrect. 

 

Please review the differences in meaning of these three+ important words :

 

Assume 

Presume 

Surmise 

Suppose 

Etc. 

 

I once knew the difference between assuming and presuming. 

 

Dr. Livingstone, I assume. 

 

Dr. Livingstone, I presume. 

 

Dr. Livingstone, I surmise. 

 

Doctor, Doctor... 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by GammaGlobulin

[sqwakvfr]

Currently in Singapore and at times “Singaporean” English has been difficult understand.  

[FriendlyFarang]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:01 PM, BananaBandit said:

I don't know for sure.  But I would assume an advanced degree professional in a world-class city like Bangkok would have some English proficiency.  Also, someone like a clinical psychologist would likely have significant experience with research articles and other such materials that often appear exclusively in English.

I did sometimes wonder about this too, but I suspect that it works similar to school, people don't fail, and no matter how bad something is they pass.

Take for example the texts posted here: http://cuir.car.chula.ac.th/handle/123456789/4587

These are master theses, books etc. written by graduates from one of the most prestigious university of Thailand, all these documents have probably been proof read many times by various people.

The level of English is just so low, full of basic mistakes, sometimes even incomprehensible. Somehow they still got their masters degree with it.

[zzaa09]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:56 PM, herfiehandbag said:

I am pretty much in Buffalo Country, rural Chiang Rai

 

The doctors and nurses at my local hospital, where I have been going daily for treatment, mostly speak some English. I am often surprised by the ability of all sorts - a local petrol pump attendant for example. The girls in my local 7/11 make a point of trying their English out - basic standard but the important thing is they try.

 

I live next door to the local school. The children like to try out their English - most seem to learn through Google translate and Facebook and so on. I listen patiently and if they make a serious mistake I gently put them right (I am a retired teacher); bizarrely the English teacher can't or won't speak it. I suspect he is worried about losing face, the children are happy to rabbit away. I have rather become the "go to resource" for homework!

 

if they try, it's remarkable how they can communicate.

So.....how's your Thai ability?

[cleopatra2]

On 12/24/2022 at 7:35 PM, BananaBandit said:

Prominent research publications tend to appear in English.  That's a very different matter from whether or not terms in a specific field require English transliteration.

Just because a person can read comprehend academic research papers does not mean they must be fluent in the language. 

It only indicates proficiency in their chosen field. 

 

A silly example

A doctor may be familiar with English medical terms. However it is unlikely they will be able to describe how a game of cricket is played. 

 

In a similar circumstance a native English speaker may struggle with academic papers if they are not familiar with the topic. 

 

It will always depend upon language exposure. 

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

So.....how's your Thai ability?

I get by. Vocab not too bad, accent or more correctly identifying and using tones less so.

 

I can shop in markets, ask directions and keep a class of 12 year olds under some semblance of control. I am a Catholic, and a regular attender at Mass. My liturgical Thai is quite good!

 

I even learnt a smattering of Akka! Many of the children I taught ( Catholic school) were from the hill tribes.

 

I suppose I am lucky, I am quite good at languages - Latin at school and French and German (A level and then used in the army). I took after my father, he fought in Burma, and picked up the very basics of local dialects. His superiors, impressed, sent him to India to learn Japanese ( intensive three month course), made him a sergeant in the Intelligence Corps and posted him to the British occupation forces, in Graz, Austria!

 

But I absolutely realise that for many it is difficult, especially as they age - and therefore understand if they do not. Of course in these days of of Internet and satellite TV it is possible to live life here without the language, especially in the more "farang orientated"areas.

 

If all else fails, there are books - almost totally unknown to most Thais. When I moved here and unpacked my boxes, my wife's comment was "Why do you want all those books - you already have about ten!

Edited December 27, 2022 by herfiehandbag

[BananaBandit]

2 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

If all else fails, there are books - almost totally unknown to most Thais.

Why is that?

   

I'd wanted to post a question on that particular matter, but I feared a deluge of inane responses from some of the forum's more reflexively spiteful contributors.

 

You don't strike me that way at all.  

 

So I'd be especially interested to hear your viewpoint.

[BananaBandit]

20 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

I did sometimes wonder about this too, but I suspect that it works similar to school, people don't fail, and no matter how bad something is they pass.

Take for example the texts posted here: http://cuir.car.chula.ac.th/handle/123456789/4587

These are master theses, books etc. written by graduates from one of the most prestigious university of Thailand, all these documents have probably been proof read many times by various people.

The level of English is just so low, full of basic mistakes, sometimes even incomprehensible. Somehow they still got their masters degree with it.

I visited that link with considerable interest.  Thank you for sending.

 

I recall reading some English-language articles in Thai publications with bylines attributed to Thai writers.  The quality was good, far better than most examples found in the link you sent.  I don't quite understand the reason for such a disparity.

 

Do you know the best link to review English writing by actual Thai professors?