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Posted

The subject of free NHS eligibility by Thai based UK expats who suddenly return to the UK for medical treatment, prompted me to dig out the UK Gov. Ordinary Resident tool which is linked below.

 

There is no question that a UK citizen who returns to the UK for settled purposes, is eligible for free NHS treatment from day one. Questions arise however when expats return to the UK, solely to use free NHS  services, without any intention of becoming ordinarily resident once again. When I looked into the issue a few years ago, I found that the NHS was paying far more attention to fraud and abuse of the system by non-residents and that specialist staff had been recruited to determine eligibility. One of the tools in use is the Ordinarily Resident test which is linked below. Looking at the questions that are asked, makes me wonder how some expats who think they are eligible to use the service free of charge, would fare. Some may find the questions interesting:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/help-for-nhs-to-recover-costs-of-care-from-visitors-and-migrants/settled-purpose-tool

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Posted
38 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

There is no question that a UK citizen who returns to the UK for settled purposes, is eligible for free NHS treatment from day one.

You would need to register with  G.P before being eligible for NHS treatment and you will need proof of a home address to do that 

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Posted
25 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You would need to register with  G.P before being eligible for NHS treatment and you will need proof of a home address to do that 

Presumably, once you return home you register.  Doctor, voter's register, and so on.

Posted
2 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

makes me wonder how some expats who think they are eligible to use the service free of charge,

Because if you go back UK you collapse when you get into Heathrow and be taken to A & E.

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Posted

Touch wood I haven't needed to visit a UK hospital as a patient for 40-odd years, but do they really play '20 questions' before they treat you?

 

If you visit A&E and there is a need for a follow-up consultation isn't it just a case of name, address, email address and phone number and then, 'Right, we'll be in touch'?

 

As @Proton suggests, ID (cards) is the easiest way to safeguard against this type of fraud: No ID, no treatment (other than emergency care).

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Posted
8 hours ago, RayC said:

Touch wood I haven't needed to visit a UK hospital as a patient for 40-odd years, but do they really play '20 questions' before they treat you?

 

If you visit A&E and there is a need for a follow-up consultation isn't it just a case of name, address, email address and phone number and then, 'Right, we'll be in touch'?

 

As @Proton suggests, ID (cards) is the easiest way to safeguard against this type of fraud: No ID, no treatment (other than emergency care).

No I don't believe they do plus I don't think it's that difficult to become registered with a GP who will likely treat anyone regardless.

 

The problem comes when the medical complaint becomes serious and needs investigation or urgent treatment, almost certainly when hospitals become involved and other doctors and staff become involved. Hospital doctors start to examine patient history and look at the patients medical records, seeing the expats records are mostly blank for long periods will raise concern. "So you haven't been ill for a while, no symptoms, you haven't seen a GP in five years"? What is the person to do, lie and say no or try and help matters by explaining that they had been treated overseas for several years for this or that? That is likely a trigger point, surely the doctor will need to update the patients NHS record with this information, perhaps others involved in hospital backroom operations will take action, dunno.

 

When someone does begin to investigate and ask questions, that's where the Ordinarily Resident test kicks in. Can you show daily banking transactions for the past six months or so? Where do you live? Do you pay Council Tax and if so where? Are you really homeless, you said you'd been treated overseas in Thailand for several years, did you have medical insurance, that can't have been cheap. Remember, at this juncture the scamming patient is under pressure and is also vulnerable because of health issues. Personally, I'd find it very hard to come up with a plausible set of circumstances under those circumstances. I suppose as a last resort you could always say, I became sick overseas and had no money so I came here and now I intend to remain, I am a genuine returning expat who as of today is ordinarily resident. If that bought that and threw up their hands, fine. If they didn't and you have assets in the UK, such as a home, watch out.

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Posted
Just now, proton said:

Had a GP surgery 25 years ago who had a sign saying NHS cards must be shown if asked for, never was. When I moved I asked the new surgery how to change the address on it, they said they had hardly ever seen one and not to bother!

I was planning to move back to the UK back in 2015 or thereabouts and was over there scouting for a flat. Because I thought I'd found what I wanted and thought my offer was going to be accepted, I went to register with a GP. I explained my circumstances to the practise, their response was that they couldn't register me until I had a council tax bill etc, which of course was nonsense. But just goes to show how different places handle the same thing differently.....bit like Thailand really!

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Posted
10 hours ago, RayC said:

Touch wood I haven't needed to visit a UK hospital as a patient for 40-odd years, but do they really play '20 questions' before they treat you?

One of my rellies was 'foreign business manager' for a mojor London NHS hospital. She was only ever called to question people with 'iffy' accents. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

One of my rellies was 'foreign business manager' for a mojor London NHS hospital. She was only ever called to question people with 'iffy' accents. 

That's Welsh expats screwed then.

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Posted
1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

One of my rellies was 'foreign business manager' for a mojor London NHS hospital. She was only ever called to question people with 'iffy' accents. 

Geordies, Scousers and Jocks? ????

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Posted
1 hour ago, stratocaster said:

I am curious to know how  returnees trying to get free medical care are going to beat the waiting times. 

That is a very good question.

 

Emergency treatment will, no doubt, be available but by definition that isn't planned. Would known conditions e.g. cancer be treated quickly?

 

Sorry to hear about your mate; if his example is anything to go by then the answer is 'No'.

Posted
2 hours ago, proton said:

Had a GP surgery 25 years ago who had a sign saying NHS cards must be shown if asked for, never was. When I moved I asked the new surgery how to change the address on it, they said they had hardly ever seen one and not to bother!

I'd forgotten all about NHS cards until you mentioned them!

Posted
14 hours ago, Chivas said:

Why would anyone in modern times burn their bridges with their original GP anyway

29 years  ago, my GP burnt my bridges for me whilst I was still living in the UK as he had only seen me 3 times in 27 years, the last one of those >5 years prior, & they were removing patients off of their list who hadn't been in to see them for a long time...

 

I never bothered getting a new one which is something I may well come to regret in later years but at that age you just don't think about it (Especially when you're paying additional, "Benefits in Kind" tax to have Private Health Insurance). 

 

 

 

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Posted
4 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

I was planning to move back to the UK back in 2015 or thereabouts and was over there scouting for a flat. Because I thought I'd found what I wanted and thought my offer was going to be accepted, I went to register with a GP. I explained my circumstances to the practise, their response was that they couldn't register me until I had a council tax bill etc, which of course was nonsense. But just goes to show how different places handle the same thing differently.....bit like Thailand really!

In UK you can still be seen by a GP. 

Emergency treatment is also available.

Why don't you just have regular check ups and look after yourself if your so dam worried about UK hospital care.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

 

Why don't you just have regular check ups and look after yourself if your so dam worried about UK hospital care.

Not quite as simple as that and using my example above of blood in urine its not something you can legislate for in advance no matter how well you look after yourself

 

Posted
3 hours ago, Chivas said:

Not quite as simple as that and using my example above of blood in urine its not something you can legislate for in advance no matter how well you look after yourself

 

Got no idea what you're on about, apart from when your God calls your boat number up you have to sail back to the harbor.

Posted
5 hours ago, Chivas said:

Indeed and there you go

By doing my suggestion of keeping in contact once a year for any spurious enquiry via website or even on the trumpet it just keeps you "active"

 

 

You don't even need to contact your G.P every year or any time at all , you will still remain enrolled on the members list.

  Some enlisted people don't visit their GP for years on end 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You don't even need to contact your G.P every year or any time at all , you will still remain enrolled on the members list.

  Some enlisted people don't visit their GP for years on end 

Yes, that will work for some but not all. Technically, under NHS rules, GP's are meant to remove from their active lists, any patient they have not had contact with in the past twelve months. This is because GP's are paid by the NHS, based on how many patients are registered at a practise. My old GP practise in the UK transferred me to a subs system after 12 months, when I went back some years later I was recalled and put back on the main system, for 12 more months.

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Posted
On 1/4/2023 at 6:49 PM, nigelforbes said:

The subject of free NHS eligibility by Thai based UK expats who suddenly return to the UK for medical treatment, prompted me to dig out the UK Gov. Ordinary Resident tool which is linked below.

 

It's also useful to read the guidance issued to Overseas visitor managers and their teams, Frontline staff providing relevant services and Providers and commissioners of relevant services
Overseas NHS visitors charging regulations - guidance December 2022

 

The advice for visitors, including expats, might be of interest: Visiting or moving-to-england/how-to-access-nhs-services-in-england-if-you-are-visiting-from-abroad/

 

It's worth noting that a referral from a GP is only required for non urgent hospital treatment, and is chargeable at 150% of cost for visitors, including non returning expats.

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Posted
On 1/5/2023 at 1:23 AM, proton said:

Pity they don't ask for ID, they would save millions. 

I used to work in a London hospital doing outpatient operations first decade of the century. While it was known that people that were not even British ( had children living in the UK ) would fly in and get a GP to refer them for NHS treatment, we were forbidden to ask them if they were actually entitled to be operated on.

 

I did hear that that was stopped, and a good thing if it was.

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