Germany no longer reliant on Russian energy.

[Social Media]

Germany no longer depends on Russian imports for its energy supply, the country's finance minister has told the BBC.

Christian Lindner said Germany had completely diversified its energy infrastructure since Russia's invasion of Ukraine last year.

Following the invasion, Russia turned off the gas taps to Europe, leading to fears of blackouts this winter.

But Germany had found new sources of energy, Mr Lindner said.

"Yes, of course Germany is still dependent on energy imports, but today, not from Russian imports but from global markets," he said.

Germany previously imported around half of its gas from Russia and more than a third of its oil.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Black Ops said:

Germany no longer depends on Russian imports for its energy supply, the country's finance minister has told the BBC.

Indeed, they are using more German dirty coal instead.

[SunnyinBangrak]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed, they are using more German dirty coal instead.

"Germany is relying on highly polluting coal for almost a third of its electricity, as the impact of government policies and the war in Ukraine leads producers in Europe’s largest economy to use less gas and nuclear energy. In the first six months of the year, Germany generated 82.6bn kWh of electricity from coal, up 17 per cent from the same period last year, according to data from Destatis, the national statistics office, published on Wednesday."

https://www.ft.com/content/9d3c8af8-ae00-4dc5-9e85-579681450c9c

 

Hard not to laugh at the German eco warriors driving around in their 1/3 coal powered EVs and charging their multiple smartphones with 33% coal power. I can almost smell the smokestacks belching thick stinking black clouds. I wonder if proper numbers were available between the total pollution caused by these "environmentally friendly" coal powered cars vs the old and much maligned internal combustion engine powered vehicles??

[Tug]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Making the world a better place for the richest 1%!

Awwww old Putin is getting left out heck he’s in the 1/100th of the top 1% what gives?

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

"Germany is relying on highly polluting coal for almost a third of its electricity, as the impact of government policies and the war in Ukraine leads producers in Europe’s largest economy to use less gas and nuclear energy. In the first six months of the year, Germany generated 82.6bn kWh of electricity from coal, up 17 per cent from the same period last year, according to data from Destatis, the national statistics office, published on Wednesday."

https://www.ft.com/content/9d3c8af8-ae00-4dc5-9e85-579681450c9c

 

 

In case you haven't heard, there's a war going on. Wars usually generate all kinds of unpleasant consequences. One of the positive consequences of this dreadful war is that it has accelerated Germany's plans for renewables.

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Hard not to laugh at the German eco warriors driving around in their 1/3 coal powered EVs and charging their multiple smartphones with 33% coal power. I can almost smell the smokestacks belching thick stinking black clouds. I wonder if proper numbers were available between the total pollution caused by these "environmentally friendly" coal powered cars vs the old and much maligned internal combustion engine powered vehicles??

You need "wonder' no more.

Electrifying transportation reduces emissions AND saves massive amounts of energy

"Even if the grid were entirely fueled by coal, 31% less energy would be needed to charge EVs than to fuel gasoline cars. If EVs were charged by natural gas, the total energy demand for highway transportation would fall by nearly half. Add in hydropower or other renewables, and the result gets even better, saving up to three-fourths of the energy currently used by gasoline-powered vehicles."

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2022/08/electrifying-transportation-reduces-emissions-and-saves-massive-amounts-of-energy/

 

[mikebike]

9 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

"Germany is relying on highly polluting coal for almost a third of its electricity, as the impact of government policies and the war in Ukraine leads producers in Europe’s largest economy to use less gas and nuclear energy. In the first six months of the year, Germany generated 82.6bn kWh of electricity from coal, up 17 per cent from the same period last year, according to data from Destatis, the national statistics office, published on Wednesday."

https://www.ft.com/content/9d3c8af8-ae00-4dc5-9e85-579681450c9c

 

Hard not to laugh at the German eco warriors driving around in their 1/3 coal powered EVs and charging their multiple smartphones with 33% coal power. I can almost smell the smokestacks belching thick stinking black clouds. I wonder if proper numbers were available between the total pollution caused by these "environmentally friendly" coal powered cars vs the old and much maligned internal combustion engine powered vehicles??

<deleted> is your point? No gas from Russia. What would your brilliant solution be? Let the citizens freeze to death for a cause, or bridge with an unpleasant alternative until other clean sources are brought online? 

[billd766]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed, they are using more German dirty coal instead.

And when more renewable sources come on line the lignite power stations will be taken offline, shutdown and the lignite mines will be closed.

[JonnyF]

10 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

"Germany is relying on highly polluting coal for almost a third of its electricity, as the impact of government policies and the war in Ukraine leads producers in Europe’s largest economy to use less gas and nuclear energy. In the first six months of the year, Germany generated 82.6bn kWh of electricity from coal, up 17 per cent from the same period last year, according to data from Destatis, the national statistics office, published on Wednesday."

https://www.ft.com/content/9d3c8af8-ae00-4dc5-9e85-579681450c9c

 

Hard not to laugh at the German eco warriors driving around in their 1/3 coal powered EVs and charging their multiple smartphones with 33% coal power. I can almost smell the smokestacks belching thick stinking black clouds. I wonder if proper numbers were available between the total pollution caused by these "environmentally friendly" coal powered cars vs the old and much maligned internal combustion engine powered vehicles??

It's hard not to laugh at most eco warriors.  

 

Talking, but not doing.

 

Harry and his wife are the best example.

[billd766]

44 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You need "wonder' no more.

Electrifying transportation reduces emissions AND saves massive amounts of energy

"Even if the grid were entirely fueled by coal, 31% less energy would be needed to charge EVs than to fuel gasoline cars. If EVs were charged by natural gas, the total energy demand for highway transportation would fall by nearly half. Add in hydropower or other renewables, and the result gets even better, saving up to three-fourths of the energy currently used by gasoline-powered vehicles."

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2022/08/electrifying-transportation-reduces-emissions-and-saves-massive-amounts-of-energy/

 

But how much does it cost to mine all the rare earths to make the batteries in the first place? In addition how are these batteries recycled and how much can be reused?

 

Have the batteries been developed yet for agricultural and commercial use?

 

Whilst it is nice to have electric vehicles the working life of the battery needs to be improved.

 

Then you get to the vicious circle where you need to generate more electricity for charging stations and recycling plants.

[mikebike]

9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But how much does it cost to mine all the rare earths to make the batteries in the first place? In addition how are these batteries recycled and how much can be reused?

 

Have the batteries been developed yet for agricultural and commercial use?

 

Whilst it is nice to have electric vehicles the working life of the battery needs to be improved.

 

Then you get to the vicious circle where you need to generate more electricity for charging stations and recycling plants.

Not going to point you to it, but battery technology is advancing way past lithium ion... Many very attractive options on the near horizon. 

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It's hard not to laugh at most eco warriors.  

 

Talking, but not doing.

 

Harry and his wife are the best example.

Sure. Nothing much is happening on that front at all...

Renewable power’s growth is being turbocharged as countries seek to strengthen energy security

The global energy crisis has triggered unprecedented momentum behind renewables, with the world set to add as much renewable power in the next 5 years as it did in the past 20...

The global energy crisis is driving a sharp acceleration in installations of renewable power, with total capacity growth worldwide set to almost double in the next five years, overtaking coal as the largest source of electricity generation along the way and helping keep alive the possibility of limiting global warming to 1.5 °C, the IEA says in a new report...

The report finds that renewables are set to account for over 90% of global electricity expansion over the next five years, overtaking coal to become the largest source of global electricity by early 2025.

https://www.iea.org/news/renewable-power-s-growth-is-being-turbocharged-as-countries-seek-to-strengthen-energy-security

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But how much does it cost to mine all the rare earths to make the batteries in the first place? In addition how are these batteries recycled and how much can be reused?

 

Have the batteries been developed yet for agricultural and commercial use?

 

Whilst it is nice to have electric vehicles the working life of the battery needs to be improved.

 

Then you get to the vicious circle where you need to generate more electricity for charging stations and recycling plants.

It costs less and pollutes less than continuously mining the earth for fuel. Rare earths don't get burned up and they are eminently recyclable:

Renewables Are as Green as You'd Expect
Despite all the metals and raw materials that go into making solar cells and wind turbines, these sources of low-carbon renewable electrify will have a low climate and environmental impact through 2050

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/renewables-are-as-green-as-you-d-expect/

 

Rare Earth Recycling

https://energyindustryreview.com/metals-mining/rare-earth-recycling/#:~:text=Rare earths – an ideal candidate,an ideal candidate for recycling.

 

Electric vehicles make debut in agriculture

No longer an idea only, electric tractors are making a quiet start in vegetable farms, vineyards and orchards.

Innovation and out-of-the-box thinking seek to outfit farmers and especially specialty crop growers interested in automation and alternative energy solutions.

https://fruitgrowersnews.com/article/electric-vehicles-make-debut-in-ag/

 

As for the working life of the battery, it's clear that you are unfamiliar with information on that score:

How long do electric car batteries last? [Dec 2022 updated]

According to current industry expectations, EV batteries are projected to last between 100,000 and 200,000 miles, or about 15 to 20 years.

However, even when EV batteries do age, their large initial capacity combined with minor losses in battery capacity means the aging is nearly imperceptible to drivers. Indeed, EVs are currently estimated to lose an average of 2.3% of their battery capacity per year. 

https://blog.evbox.com/ev-battery-longevity

 

For obvious reasons, at least obvious to me, your vicious cycle claim makes no sense. Are you seriously claiming that the more charging stations and recycling stations that are created, the greater the deficit will be. That they consume so much power that it makes no sense to use them? Is that the case today? Why would it be the case tomorrow. Usually, as technologies develop, costs go down, not up. What is different about renewables?

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

Not going to point you to it, but battery technology is advancing way past lithium ion... Many very attractive options on the near horizon. 

But at what cost to manufacture, to use, to recycle and the cost of replacement?

[billd766]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

It costs less and pollutes less than continuously mining the earth for fuel. Rare earths don't get burned up and they are eminently recyclable:

Renewables Are as Green as You'd Expect
Despite all the metals and raw materials that go into making solar cells and wind turbines, these sources of low-carbon renewable electrify will have a low climate and environmental impact through 2050

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/renewables-are-as-green-as-you-d-expect/

 

Rare Earth Recycling

https://energyindustryreview.com/metals-mining/rare-earth-recycling/#:~:text=Rare earths – an ideal candidate,an ideal candidate for recycling.

 

Electric vehicles make debut in agriculture

No longer an idea only, electric tractors are making a quiet start in vegetable farms, vineyards and orchards.

Innovation and out-of-the-box thinking seek to outfit farmers and especially specialty crop growers interested in automation and alternative energy solutions.

https://fruitgrowersnews.com/article/electric-vehicles-make-debut-in-ag/

 

As for the working life of the battery, it's clear that you are unfamiliar with information on that score:

How long do electric car batteries last? [Dec 2022 updated]

According to current industry expectations, EV batteries are projected to last between 100,000 and 200,000 miles, or about 15 to 20 years.

However, even when EV batteries do age, their large initial capacity combined with minor losses in battery capacity means the aging is nearly imperceptible to drivers. Indeed, EVs are currently estimated to lose an average of 2.3% of their battery capacity per year. 

https://blog.evbox.com/ev-battery-longevity

 

For obvious reasons, at least obvious to me, your vicious cycle claim makes no sense. Are you seriously claiming that the more charging stations and recycling stations that are created, the greater the deficit will be. That they consume so much power that it makes no sense to use them? Is that the case today? Why would it be the case tomorrow. Usually, as technologies develop, costs go down, not up. What is different about renewables?

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/renewables-are-as-green-as-you-d-expect/

 

The researchers assumed that solar, wind and hydropower will make up 39 percent of total global power production in 2050, up from 16.5 percent in 2010, requiring 1.5 gigatons of bulk raw materials for construction.

 

There is one of those elastic words again.

 

"assumed"

 

If you are writing an article you cannot make an assumption as broad as that.

 

There are less solar, wind and hydropower projects than there are protestors, as can be seen by the amount of protests that are increasing on a daily/weekly and monthly basis.

 

Every days delay on every project with both legal, through the courts, and illegal actions by the tree huggers (I am using the term generically) adds to the costs and time taken for the projects.

 

It must be done as the tit

 

 

 

[billd766]

33 minutes ago, billd766 said:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/renewables-are-as-green-as-you-d-expect/

 

The researchers assumed that solar, wind and hydropower will make up 39 percent of total global power production in 2050, up from 16.5 percent in 2010, requiring 1.5 gigatons of bulk raw materials for construction.

 

There is one of those elastic words again.

 

"assumed"

 

If you are writing an article you cannot make an assumption as broad as that.

 

There are less solar, wind and hydropower projects than there are protestors, as can be seen by the amount of protests that are increasing on a daily/weekly and monthly basis.

 

Every days delay on every project with both legal, through the courts, and illegal actions by the tree huggers (I am using the term generically) adds to the costs and time taken for the projects.

 

It must be done as the tit

 

 

 

It didn't save and I have just lost 20 minutes work.

 

<deleted> it. I am off to bed.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

And when more renewable sources come on line the lignite power stations will be taken offline, shutdown and the lignite mines will be closed.

Didn't they just extend the time the coal fired power station will be in operation?

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

It didn't save and I have just lost 20 minutes work.

 

<deleted> it. I am off to bed.

I sympathize. Happened to me too many times.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

But how much does it cost to mine all the rare earths to make the batteries in the first place? In addition how are these batteries recycled and how much can be reused?

 

Have the batteries been developed yet for agricultural and commercial use?

 

Whilst it is nice to have electric vehicles the working life of the battery needs to be improved.

 

Then you get to the vicious circle where you need to generate more electricity for charging stations and recycling plants.

Agreed. Hydrogen avoids most of the problems created by battery cars.

IMO batteries are the wrong path- hydrogen is the saviour if they could just put the investment in to develop it.

[GinBoy2]

Well I for one have been pretty damn impressed how fast Germany has pivoted away from Russian energy.

 

After years of other Western governments telling Merkel the folly of her Russia energy policy the cold reality prevailed.

 

The speed of completion of the Wilhelmshaven floating LNG terminal was almost China like speed.

 

As for coal, suck it up as a short term band aid, and if you have a problem, I'd send an email to Vlad, I'm sure he's all ears to your pain!

[Scott]

Conspiracy post reported and removed.  

 

[Bkk Brian]

Sorry Russia, you're no longer needed.

 

The World Economy No Longer Needs Russia

With alternative sources in place, Putin’s attempt at blackmailing Europe on energy has failed.

 

Now, as we approach the one-year anniversary of Putin’s invasion, it is apparent that Russia has permanently forfeited its erstwhile economic might in the global marketplace.

Thanks to an unseasonably warm winter in Europe, Putin’s moment of maximum leverage has passed uneventfully, and, as we correctly forecast last October, the biggest victim of Putin’s gas gambit was Russia itself. Putin’s natural gas leverage is now nonexistent, as the world—and, most importantly, Europe—no longer needs Russian gas.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/01/19/russia-ukraine-economy-europe-energy/

[JonnyF]

Good to see they followed Trump's advice finally. Seems he was 4 years ahead of them. It's funny to watch their reaction to his speech in hindsight.

 

 

 

Disclaimer ;  I am not a Trump or MAGA fan so save your Strawman arguments for someone else. However, on this occasion he was spot on.

[placeholder]

52 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Good to see they followed Trump's advice finally. Seems he was 4 years ahead of them. It's funny to watch their reaction to his speech in hindsight.

 

 

 

Disclaimer ;  I am not a Trump or MAGA fan so save your Strawman arguments for someone else. However, on this occasion he was spot on.

What took Trump so long? Obama and Biden were way ahead of him

 

Obama to EU: Cut reliance on Russian gas

https://www.cnbc.com/2014/03/26/eu-to-press-obama-at-summit-for-aid-in-cutting-russian-gas-imports.html

 

Biden warns EU against Russian gas dependency

https://www.dw.com/en/biden-warns-europe-against-dependency-on-russia-for-heating-oil-and-natural-gas/a-19503334

Edited January 20, 2023 by placeholder

[JonnyF]

17 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Another case of I-don't-like-Trump-but...

What took Trump so long? Obama and Biden were way ahead of him

 

Obama to EU: Cut reliance on Russian gas

https://www.cnbc.com/2014/03/26/eu-to-press-obama-at-summit-for-aid-in-cutting-russian-gas-imports.html

 

Biden warns EU against Russian gas dependency

https://www.dw.com/en/biden-warns-europe-against-dependency-on-russia-for-heating-oil-and-natural-gas/a-19503334

I don't like or dislike Trump. I'm English so I don't really get the unhinged obsession that American "liberals" have with him. But he was absolutely correct and the Germans were sniggering. They didn't look too smart 2 years later.

 

As for Obama, he was simply using energy as a weapon to hustle for a trade deal with the EU. Classy... 

 

[placeholder]

Just now, JonnyF said:

I don't like or dislike Trump. I'm English so I don't really get the unhinged obsession that American "liberals" have with him. But he was absolutely correct and the Germans were sniggering. They didn't look too smart 2 years later.

 

As for Obama, he was simply using energy as a weapon to hustle for a trade deal with the EU. Classy... 

 

Well, you've got me there...oh wait a minute...

Trump pitches US natural gas to European leaders, suggests Russian gas holds them hostage

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/06/trump-natural-gas-europe-leaders.html

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, you've got me there...oh wait a minute...

Trump pitches US natural gas to European leaders, suggests Russian gas holds them hostage

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/06/trump-natural-gas-europe-leaders.html

And he was absolutely correct. 

 

 

Obama on the other hand, was clearly using energy to coerce the EU into a trade deal.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by JonnyF

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

And he was absolutely correct. 

 

 

Obama on the other hand, was clearly using energy to coerce the EU into a trade deal.

 

 

 

 

Such nonsense. Trump was clearly referring to Russia's previous denial of gas to the EU over the EU's stance on Ukraine. What is coercive about Obama's statement? You think Obama was holding up the possibility of delaying a trade agreement with Europe over natural gas? It's been the EU that was traditionally more reluctant to make trade freer with America. And it was Trump who was obviously far less receptive to free trade with Europe than Obama ever was.

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Such nonsense. Trump was clearly referring to Russia's previous denial of gas to the EU over the EU's stance on Ukraine. What is coercive about Obama's statement? You think Obama was holding up the possibility of delaying a trade agreement with Europe over natural gas? It's been the EU that was traditionally more reluctant to make trade freer with America. And it was Trump who was obviously far less receptive to free trade with Europe than Obama ever was.

Obama has a history of using threats over trade deals to try and get his own way.

 

I still remember the "back of the queue for a trade deal" comments he made that helped push Brexit over the line ????. Thanks Barack.

[billd766]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Didn't they just extend the time the coal fired power station will be in operation?

I believe they did and I think it will staying in operation until something better comes along.

 

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I sympathize. Happened to me too many times.

I sympathise, but it is still a PITA.

 

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agreed. Hydrogen avoids most of the problems created by battery cars.

IMO batteries are the wrong path- hydrogen is the saviour if they could just put the investment in to develop it.

A little snippet I found on the BBC News website for Australia this morning.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64248564

 

 

t's a new hydrogen-diesel hybrid engine affectionately known as "baby number two" that could help to decarbonise some of Australia's heaviest industries.

The test rig is large - it has its own room adjoining a lab and looks at first glance like many other large motors, but beneath its metallic skin could lie game-changing technology.

Engineers at the University of New South Wales (UNSW) say they have successfully modified a conventional diesel engine to use a mix of hydrogen and a small amount of diesel, claiming their patented technology has cut carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions by more than 85%.