Alcoholics with co-exisiting sex addiction

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

So you have no problem with sex, yet want to come on a serious thread for those with a drinking problem/sex addiction and tell us all that you have no problem with either?  Come on dude.

First post was humor, and true.  About SA.

 

AA is a completely different subject, though as I stated, and you agree, one could influence the decisions to satisfy the other, and if so, could become a problem.   That part didn't become a problem, for me, thankfully.

 

Others that can't control either, then yes, help would be advised.

 

 

[Neeranam]

On 2/2/2023 at 11:59 AM, KhunLA said:

Completely different.  Terrible comparison.

No, you obviously don't understand sex addiction, and think it's a joke. 

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No, you obviously don't understand sex addiction, and think it's a joke. 

Unlike alcoholism (damage to your body), SA, if there is such a thing, isn't a problem, unless it becomes a problem.  Don't think too much sex, if a thing, has ever harmed anyone, as long as consenting adults.

 

For me, on the alcoholism issue, I think I've had about 3 beers (490ml) since mid Oct.  5 at the most, if there was 2 in the frig before I bought the last slab, as there's only 3 missing from it.   And I never keep more than 2 in the frig at any time.  Why I only buy a slab (12 cans) when they are fresh, as may take me 6 months to finish.  Seems I sip less in the new house.  Was good for about 2 beers a month prior.

 

Going out on a limb here, and thinking 3 or 5 beers in that many months, isn't a problem.

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Unlike alcoholism (damage to your body), SA, if there is such a thing, isn't a problem, unless it becomes a problem.  Don't think too much sex, if a thing, has ever harmed anyone, as long as consenting adults.

 

Alcoholism is a mental illness.

Sex addiction has harmed many, many people. 

[KhunLA]

22 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Alcoholism is a mental illness.

Sex addiction has harmed many, many people. 

If you say, think so.  I'm of a different opinion.

Just have to agree to disagree.

 

I easily enjoy both, with no issues:

1 moderately

1 as much I wish

 

Others who have no will power, need to concentrate on themselves.  Let the rest of us enjoy what we enjoy.

[ozimoron]

On 2/2/2023 at 11:29 AM, Neeranam said:

Are you trolling or trying to be funny? 

 

If neither, here's a link to where you can get help.

 

I'm amazed SA isn't bigger in Thailand, especially Pattaya.

 

https://saa-recovery.org/

Sex isn't harmful. Doctors recommend plenty of sex and the exercise benefits you immensely.

[ozimoron]

28 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Alcoholism is a mental illness.

Sex addiction has harmed many, many people. 

Sex addiction has harmed nobody. Sex itself maybe, if they contracted a disease. Otherwise no. Spending themselves broke on sex is nothing to do with the sex itself. A multimillionaire could have twice as much sex and not be harmed.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Sex addiction has harmed nobody. Sex itself maybe, if they contracted a disease. Otherwise no. Spending themselves broke on sex is nothing to do with the sex itself. A multimillionaire could have twice as much sex and not be harmed.

It might not be about physical harm as such. More about the inability to maintain and develop relationships and friendships, or focus on a sensible and fulfilling life, as your constant motivation is doing it one more time and getting a further fix.  For some it might simply be a high libido but for many it may be psychological e.g.  the need to constantly have to satisfy your ego, or due to inadequate feelings about oneself, pessimism about the future. Could be something you deep down feel you lost from being with a certain type of woman, that you are trying to get back etc.  Constantly being with prostitutes for example I imagine could be damaging to you in ways that are not obviously physical in nature.  

[ozimoron]

15 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

It might not be about physical harm as such. More about the inability to maintain and develop relationships and friendships, or focus on a sensible and fulfilling life, as your constant motivation is doing it one more time and getting a further fix.  For some it might simply be a high libido but for many it may be psychological e.g.  the need to constantly have to satisfy your ego, or due to inadequate feelings about oneself, pessimism about the future. Could be something you deep down feel you lost from being with a certain type of woman, that you are trying to get back etc.  Constantly being with prostitutes for example I imagine could be damaging to you in ways that are not obviously physical in nature.  

I think using the term prostitutes is loading the issue. There are many women who become prostitutes out of economic necessity. They are not bad or "immoral", they are normal women. Not feeling the need to have a fixed relationship is not a negative thing either. Many people are trapped in unhappy relationships. Sometimes those relationships turn sour to the point that they inflict great damage to each other. Ego is irrelevant as well, I don't believe that ego has any relationship to sex at all. Sex is simply about pleasure. People go to pubs to interact socially. Having sex with different women is the exactly the same. It is no more or less than social interaction. Sex doesn't have to have any deeper psychological meaning. I think those who claim it does are misleading themselves or seeking to pander to their ego in the same way as you criticize those having casual sex. Finally, sex addiction can pertain just as easily to a monogamous relationship as to casual sex. The nature of the relationship is meaningless in this context. Casual sex can also mean sex with the same woman on a regular or irregular basis, either over a period of days, weeks or years. I can't see where the harm arises quite frankly.

 

If you accept that humans are biologically no different from animals from a fundamental point of view, there a strong philosophical argument that our only purpose in life is to procreate and that arguments such as yours are mere social or religious constructions which contravene the laws of nature.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

34 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I think using the term prostitutes is loading the issue. There are many women who become prostitutes out of economic necessity. They are not bad or "immoral", they are normal women. Not feeling the need to have a fixed relationship is not a negative thing either. Many people are trapped in unhappy relationships. Sometimes those relationships turn sour to the point that they inflict great damage to each other. Ego is irrelevant as well, I don't believe that ego has any relationship to sex at all. Sex is simply about pleasure. People go to pubs to interact socially. Having sex with different women is the exactly the same. It is no more or less than social interaction. Sex doesn't have to have any deeper psychological meaning. I think those who claim it does are misleading themselves or seeking to pander to their ego in the same way as you criticize those having casual sex. Finally, sex addiction can pertain just as easily to a monogamous relationship as to casual sex. The nature of the relationship is meaningless in this context. Casual sex can also mean sex with the same woman on a regular or irregular basis, either over a period of days, weeks or years. I can't see where the harm arises quite frankly.

 

If you accept that humans are biologically no different from animals from a fundamental point of view, there a strong philosophical argument that our only purpose in life is to procreate and that arguments such as yours are mere social or religious constructions which contravene the laws of nature.

There's a bit to unpack there but I agree with most of what you are saying as one side of the story. There will be many who simply have sex for fun, like there are people who have a few drinks, and there's nothing much to say. I agree with the argument too that living alone or living a certain lifestyle is not by it's nature wrong or inappropriate and certainly not immoral. 

On the topic of prostitution my instincts tell me it is not as simple as you say but the problem is not because the women are bad but that we are complicated beings, and for some, and maybe all, to some degree, the action of paying directly for such an intimate thing could potentially be damaging.  Maybe it is like drugs or gambling. Some can handle marijuana or stronger drugs and others can't. I have opinions on the merits of prostitution in my own life but I accept it is a personal thing. 

I don't accept we are exactly like animals because we have a much broader range of emotions and awareness and freedom of choice. Being aware of our limitations can be a religious concept but I think it can be useful for non religious people too as a way of being careful sometimes about how we live our life. Support and discussion can help I suppose. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

There's a bit to unpack there but I agree with most of what you are saying as one side of the story. There will be many who simply have sex for fun, like there are people who have a few drinks, and there's nothing much to say. I agree with the argument too that living alone or living a certain lifestyle is not by it's nature wrong or inappropriate and certainly not immoral. 

On the topic of prostitution my instincts tell me it is not as simple as you say but the problem is not because the women are bad but that we are complicated beings and for some, and maybe all, to some degree, the action of paying directly for such an intimate thing could potentially be damaging.  Maybe it is like drugs or gambling. Some can handle marijuana or stronger drugs and others can't. I have opinions on the merits of prostitution in my own life but I accept it is a personal thing. 

I don't accept we are exactly like animals because we have a much broader range of emotions and awareness and freedom of choice. Being aware of our limitations can be a religious concept but I think it can be useful for non religious people too as a way of being careful sometimes about how we live our life. Support and discussion can help I suppose. 

I would only take exception to one word in your post and that is "much" broader range of emotions and awareness. I think that should be somewhat or marginal. Modern science is showing that emotions at least are common to many animals. Arguably self awareness logically follows.

 

As far as prostitutes are concerned, I am adamant that it is a regular job and should be treated as such. People become prostitutes for any number of reasons and modern legal approaches such as decriminalising prostitution support that view. Ascribing morality to anything is deeply flawed in my view. Any minute somebody will come by and suggest that rape and murder are immoral but they are many other things. Morality itself is a flawed religious concept just like religion itself.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Sex addiction has harmed nobody. Sex itself maybe, if they contracted a disease. Otherwise no. Spending themselves broke on sex is nothing to do with the sex itself. A multimillionaire could have twice as much sex and not be harmed.

Compulsive sexual thoughts and/or behavior leads to increasingly serious consequences, in both the addict’s internal and external worlds. The consequences may include severe depression, often with suicidal ideation, low self-esteem, shame, self-hatred, hopelessness, despair, helplessness, intense anxiety, loneliness, moral conflict, contradictions between ethical values and behaviors, fear of abandonment, spiritual bankruptcy, distorted thinking, remorse, and self-deceit.

 

https://oxbowacademy.net/educationalarticles/sex_add_cons/

 

Come on, are you seriously saying sex addiction causes no harm? 

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Compulsive sexual thoughts and/or behavior leads to increasingly serious consequences, in both the addict’s internal and external worlds. The consequences may include severe depression, often with suicidal ideation, low self-esteem, shame, self-hatred, hopelessness, despair, helplessness, intense anxiety, loneliness, moral conflict, contradictions between ethical values and behaviors, fear of abandonment, spiritual bankruptcy, distorted thinking, remorse, and self-deceit.

 

https://oxbowacademy.net/educationalarticles/sex_add_cons/

 

Come on, are you seriously saying sex addiction causes no harm? 

Who said anything about sex was compulsive? Anybody who is not mentally ill should find nothing compulsive about it. The language of your post is emotionally loaded to produce a predetermined conclusion.

 

If sexual addiction produces harm tell us what that harm is.

 

Please spare us this garbage. Oxbow Academy is for boys ages 10-17 who are engaging in sexually inappropriate behaviors. (Utah) 'nuff said.

[KhunLA]

26 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Compulsive sexual thoughts and/or behavior leads to increasingly serious consequences, in both the addict’s internal and external worlds. The consequences may include severe depression, often with suicidal ideation, low self-esteem, shame, self-hatred, hopelessness, despair, helplessness, intense anxiety, loneliness, moral conflict, contradictions between ethical values and behaviors, fear of abandonment, spiritual bankruptcy, distorted thinking, remorse, and self-deceit.

 

https://oxbowacademy.net/educationalarticles/sex_add_cons/

 

Come on, are you seriously saying sex addiction causes no harm? 

Are you sure you, and the shrinks, aren't confusing the 'feeling of failure' to have sex, or anything you desire or want to do, contributing to all those silly symptoms of unstable mental health, rather than the act of sex itself.

 

Feeling and realizing you are a failing in the social sexual scene, added to an unstable person already, could be problem, but has nothing to do with SA.

 

I want, I need (for whatever reason), I have ... isn't harmful to anyone, especially if it's sex.

 

I want, I think I need, but I'm a failure, and can't seem to succeed at it ... yea, that problem is with the person, not what they think they need.

 

AA ... if your body drinks a liter of whiskey ever day, when it wakes up, it needs to start on that bottle of whiskey as soon as possible ... that's addiction, that's harmful.  Physically, and probably socially.

 

You have sex everyday, maybe a few times a day for a month ... wake up and don't have for a week, that's not harmful to you body, or probably socially.  It hurts nobody.

 

 

[KhunLA]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Although sex addiction has not been recognised as a psychiatric disorder...

... nuff said

 

End discussion ... Have a Nice Day

[Andy F]

18 hours ago, Neeranam said:

No, you obviously don't understand sex addiction, and think it's a joke. 

Thank you Neeraman. I had two close buddies in AA. Both of them died as a direct result of sex and love addiction. Admittedly, they both died by going back to drink and drugs. The trigger for relapse was sex and love addiction. Check out the movie "Shame" - Sex and love addiction is no different to any other substance addiction

[Andy F]

18 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Unlike alcoholism (damage to your body), SA, if there is such a thing, isn't a problem, unless it becomes a problem.  Don't think too much sex, if a thing, has ever harmed anyone, as long as consenting adults.

 

For me, on the alcoholism issue, I think I've had about 3 beers (490ml) since mid Oct.  5 at the most, if there was 2 in the frig before I bought the last slab, as there's only 3 missing from it.   And I never keep more than 2 in the frig at any time.  Why I only buy a slab (12 cans) when they are fresh, as may take me 6 months to finish.  Seems I sip less in the new house.  Was good for about 2 beers a month prior.

 

Going out on a limb here, and thinking 3 or 5 beers in that many months, isn't a problem.

You're obviously not an alcoholic, otherwise you would be in a world of trouble with that kind of mindset. 

[Andy F]

18 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Alcoholism is a mental illness.

Sex addiction has harmed many, many people. 

100% correct Neeraman. Only another alcoholic will agree with your last statement. By the way, The DSM 5 also agrees with you.

DSM 5 = The diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders 

[Andy F]

18 hours ago, KhunLA said:

If you say, think so.  I'm of a different opinion.

Just have to agree to disagree.

 

I easily enjoy both, with no issues:

1 moderately

1 as much I wish

 

Others who have no will power, need to concentrate on themselves.  Let the rest of us enjoy what we enjoy.

Why then are you on a page entitled  "I drink too much"?

[Andy F]

18 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Sex isn't harmful. Doctors recommend plenty of sex and the exercise benefits you immensely.

I have lost two close buddies in AA as the direct result of co-existing sex addiction. May they R.I.P. ????????????

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, Andy F said:

Why then are you on a page entitled  "I drink too much"?

I'm on this page "Alcoholics with co-exisiting sex addiction"

 

Didn't know or care it's a sub forum of "I drink too much" as don't read the fine print up top of the page when replying to threads of.

[proton]

On 1/26/2023 at 4:12 PM, Tazmo said:

Addiction is a disease that needs treatment, then with rehabilitation you can live without suffering.

Similar to a Diabetic having to make readjustments.

” Rock Bottom “ is when most seek help. Treatment usually involves relatives and education.

Cross Addictions often occur, one may stop opiates but switch to alcohol and Vice versa, or switch to sex; gambling; internet;  All related to dopamine levels in our brain, eg increases with exercise, a more acceptable option. Levels are said to be low in addicts, whereas Others may overindulge and get away with it. May not hit rock bottom but end up with cirrhosis of the liver. Liver Units in the UK are full. Or syphillis  In the case of sex addiction.

No addiction is a disease that's just an excuse, addiction is weakness

[save the frogs]

18 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Alcoholism is a mental illness.

Sex addiction has harmed many, many people. 

Maybe some people may have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism. 

Maybe some people have psychological issues that they can't cope with ... mental illness is a harsh term.

 

Regarding the sex, there's a guy who made a documentary about himself because he couldn't stop going to prostitutes and it was harming his relationship life. 

 

I Am a Sex Addict

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/i_am_a_sex_addict

 

[Andy F]

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm on this page "Alcoholics with co-exisiting sex addiction"

 

Didn't know or care it's a sub forum of "I drink too much" as don't read the fine print up top of the page when replying to threads of.

Why do I get the impression that you have a huge chip on your shoulder about life itself?

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Maybe some people have psychological issues that they can't cope with ... mental illness is a harsh term.

Nothing harsh about it IMHO. 

[Doctor Tom]

On 1/26/2023 at 2:49 PM, Andy F said:

It was in Thailand I had my rock bottom. Got recovery in London. Now retired in Thailand with the same (age appropriate) lady for almost a decade ????????????

I've got an age appropriate g/f, she is 30 years my junior. 

[Andy F]

Just now, Doctor Tom said:

I've got an age appropriate g/f, she is 30 years my junior. 

I hope it's the real deal Dr Tom and she doesn't fleece you ????

[KhunLA]

21 minutes ago, Andy F said:

Why do I get the impression that you have a huge chip on your shoulder about life itself?

I give up, why do you ?

 

Living is easy, people make it difficult.  

 

You drink too much and can't handle it, say you're addicted.

 

Get caught cheating on you partner, say you're addicted.

 

These are excuses, not reasons.  Believe what you want ...

... UP2U

[Neeranam]

23 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I give up, why do you ?

 

Living is easy, people make it difficult.  

 

You drink too much and can't handle it, say you're addicted.

 

Get caught cheating on you partner, say you're addicted.

 

These are excuses, not reasons.  Believe what you want ...

... UP2U

Probably better if you admit you are wrong and just leave this thread. 

It sounds like you do, in fact, have a sex problem but are in denial, like most sex addicts in Thailand. It has turned you into a  bitter person.

 

 

[Neeranam]

22 minutes ago, Andy F said:

I hope it's the real deal Dr Tom and she doesn't fleece you ????

She is maybe different from the rest ????