Missed 90 day report? confused about when the visa started.

[hotandsticky]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Good one -  with keyboard brevity.

Extending the permission to stay granted by a visa will reset the clock, extending the permission to stay granted on a previous extension will not.

 

 

I always believed that 90 day reporting is a totally separate issue from anything to with extensions; IOs, particularly in rural areas, will often do a 90 day report simultaneously....... absolutely no  help if you are already reporting online.

 

I see no difference between an extension date on a visa or on an extension. If the visa is 'live' then 90 day reporting does not apply (except O-A's) - you have to leave the country every 90 days.

[hotandsticky]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Quite right. 

However it is quite valid to refer to a "visa extension", effectively as an abbreviation, as the extension of the permission to stay refers to a particular visa.

Single entry visas become invalid on entry but they are not cancelled, they remain on your travel history.

In order to obtain a visitor visa for the UK my wife has to list previous visas.

Invalid/used is the same effect as cancelled - they have no further use.

 

Not relevant to this thread but our wife only has to quote her last visa........ plus details of the last 3 UK visits (+other countries visited).

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

???? Immigration will even refer to an extension as a "visa".... we are doomed.

Quite.

They have a simplistic approach when speaking which should be borne in mind and not take quite literally.

Many of their own words have multiple meanings, which can be a bit embarrassing.

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Quite.

They have a simplistic approach when speaking which should be borne in mind and not take quite literally.

Many of their own words have multiple meanings, which can be a bit embarrassing.

 

Whilst I agree whole-heartedly with your comments, I do have a preference for using the correct terminology wherever possible. 

[ThailandRyan]

52 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

How do you extend a visa?

By either paying for a 15 day extension  or by turning your used visa into an extension of stay during the last 30 days  and ensuring you have the necessary funds in the bank 2 months prior.

 

Wait was you post Rhetorical....

Edited February 10, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[hotandsticky]

5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

By either paying for a 15 day extension  or by turning your used visa into an extension of stay during the last 30 days  and ensuring you have the necessary funds in the bank 2 months prior.

 

Wait was you post Rhetorical....

It was .......until you replied.????

 

The point is - you CANNOT extend a visa, you can only extend the permission to stay date that was afforded by that visa.

[sandyf]

2 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Invalid/used is the same effect as cancelled - they have no further use.

 

Not relevant to this thread but our wife only has to quote her last visa........ plus details of the last 3 UK visits (+other countries visited).

No further use is dependent on personal circumstances. Visas are global entity and how they are used is not determined by Thailand.

My wife has visas for Burma, Korea, China and even Vietnam going back many years that had to be listed. As it happens Korea is not on the UK dropdown but it was for Canada but no requirement for the EU.

[ThailandRyan]

49 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I always thought that visas were 'used' the moment you entered Thailand and what you can extend is your permission to stay.

 

 

No visa can be extended!

For many years I had an ME Non Immigrant O visa based on marriage. I would be stamped In for 90 days and then if needed would go to the Immigration office in Udon Thani pay 1900 baht and get more time instead of doing a border bounce thus Extending my stay. Just before the visa expired I would border bounce and get another 90 days which gave me a total of 15 months in the country.

Edited February 10, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[ThailandRyan]

7 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

It was .......until you replied.????

 

The point is - you CANNOT extend a visa, you can only extend the permission to stay date that was afforded by that visa.

It's the visas permission of stay your extending...much like extending your 45 day entry stamp from the airport immigration. Semantics.

[sandyf]

15 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

Whilst I agree whole-heartedly with your comments, I do have a preference for using the correct terminology wherever possible. 

Without dispute.

There was a time when the terminology brigade were a bit pedantic but things have become a bit slack recently.

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

For many years I had an ME Non Immigrant O visa based on marriage. I would be stamped In for 90 days and then if needed would go to the Immigration office in Udon Thani pay 1900 baht and get more time instead if doing a border bounce thus Extending my stay. Just before the visa expired I would border boundmce and get another 90 days which gave me a total of 15 months in the country.

The post you referred to was referring to SE visas which were stamped "used", not a ME visa which will remain vailid until expiry.

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

It's the visas permission of stay your extending...much like extending your 45 day entry stamp from the airport immigration. Semantics.

It is not semantics if the context is wrong.  People  need to be clear if the term "visa" is an adjective or a noun.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

In order to obtain a visitor visa for the UK my wife has to list previous visas.

The visa policy of other countries is one of the main factors that trips up even experienced travellers when they encounter the Thai immigration system. Very often, other countries make no distinction between your visa and your permission to stay. Your visa is your permission to be in the country, and you generally can extend the validity period of a visa. 

 

Never assume that knowing how immigration rules of other countries work provides any insight into the system in Thailand. Indeed, the system here often seems completely irrational to Westerners. Show many, for instance, the Thai law that indicates that airport immigration does not have the right to arbitrarily cancel or refuse to honour a visa issued by an embassy/consulate (they are just given clear rules on when to deny entry, otherwise being obliged, legally, to admit you) and people are incredulous. They feel that officials at airports must legally have that power, regardless of what Thai law states.

Edited February 10, 2023 by BritTim

[BritTim]

32 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

It's the visas permission of stay your extending...much like extending your 45 day entry stamp from the airport immigration. Semantics.

Right. Most people, by the way, will refer to your visa exemption as a visa (commonly a visa on arrival) causing all kinds of confusion with a visa acquired at the airport when you are not entitled to a visa exemption. A failure to understand the system, and insistence on using incorrect terminology makes it extremely difficult to clearly explain the rules. The fact that Thai immigration officials also find it easier to use "wee-zah" to describe any stamp in your passport just exacerbates the problem. Many people here in Thailand for many years have only the haziest idea of how the system actually works.

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, BritTim said:

Never assume that knowing how immigration rules of other countries work provides any insight into the system in Thailand. Indeed, the system here often seems completely irrational to Westerners. Show many, for instance, the Thai law that indicates that airport immigration does not have the right to arbitrarily cancel or refuse to honour a visa issued by an embassy/consulate (they are just given clear rules on when to deny entry, otherwise being obliged, legally, to admit you) and people are incredulous. They feel that officials at airports must legally have that power, regardless of what Thai law states.

Every country decides on how immigration laws will be implemented but there are common factors among most countries, entry being one of them.

Visas are issued subject to conditions and provided the conditions are complied with there are no grounds for denial. When the tennis guy was refused entry to Australia he was held for a few days while they decided if he was compliant, not up to airport immigration.

One of the big issues with Thailand is the ability to enter without a visa, many try to abuse the facility and then start complaining, hardly a valid argument.

[Lemsta69]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

One of the big issues with Thailand is the ability to enter without a visa, many try to abuse the facility

If there is no official limit on the number of visa exempt entries and no official definition of a tourist, how are they "abusing" the facility?

 

And if there are official limits then please post a link to them.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Lemsta69

[sandyf]

16 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

If there is no official limit on the number of visa exempt entries and no official definition of a tourist, how are they "abusing" the facility?

Domestic abuse is defined as a pattern of behaviour, why would one form of abuse be different to another.

There will always be those that refuse to acknowledge their pattern is abnormal.

The global pattern is if you want to visit a country for any length of time, you get a visa.

[HarrySeaman]

On 2/10/2023 at 8:22 AM, sandyf said:

Absolute garbage and the mods should stop this false information being posted, it is what leads to the confusion.

The slip in passport states quite clearly that submission of a TM7 is taken as notification at the first time.

Extending a visa will reset the clock, extending an extension will not.

You are right, things have changed since I last entered Thailand.  Thanks for the heads up.

 

I should have said the last date you entered Thailand at by international air if it is before June 9, 2022.  What they do now for land entry I don't know.

 

When you enter Thailand you used to be given a TM6 form, which was your date of entry and your renewal date was 89 days later.  I understand they no longer issue a TM6 and the TM7 has taken its place.

[Gottfrid]

On 2/8/2023 at 4:06 PM, NorthernRyland said:

This is totally my fault but why didn't it start from the day the visa was submitted or collected? So confused...

Most offices will only charge you 2k baht. So, if you have a good office, it will not be that bad.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, HarrySeaman said:

When you enter Thailand you used to be given a TM6 form, which was your date of entry and your renewal date was 89 days later.  I understand they no longer issue a TM6 and the TM7 has taken its place.

You are right to a certain extent on the TM6 but only for entry by air, I had to fill one in at Nong Khai the week before last.

You are mistaken about it being replaced, the TM7 is a different form entirely, used to  apply for an extension.

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

You are right to a certain extent on the TM6 but only for entry by air, I had to fill one in at Nong Khai the week before last.

 

Thanks for this nugget of info @sandyfI’ll be coming back via Nong Khai tmr & was wondering whether I needed to complete an Arrival Form (TM6).

 

TBH I’m relieved to learn that I do so I can include my re-entry permit # & (hopefully) get stamped in to 26th September, last time I entered Thailand the IO stamped me in for 90 days based on my Non-Imm O Multi that had expired 4 years previously took him & his superior a couple of attempts to get the right date & then still missed it by 1 day. 
 

 

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

TBH I’m relieved to learn that I do so I can include my re-entry permit # & (hopefully) get stamped in to 26th September, last time I entered Thailand the IO stamped me in for 90 days based on my Non-Imm O Multi that had expired 4 years previously took him & his superior a couple of attempts to get the right date & then still missed it by 1 day. 

Quite. I had put the re-entry No down as the visa but the IO looked at me and said "Do you have a visa?" I said No,I have a re-entry permit. He looked puzzled, looked through my passport and the at the screen for about 5 minutes. He then asked where I lived in Chonburi, although I had put Muang in the address. I said with my wife, and she is waiting over there for me. Just grunted and stamped the passport.

Hope you get someone else.

[Mike Teavee]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Quite. I had put the re-entry No down as the visa but the IO looked at me and said "Do you have a visa?" I said No,I have a re-entry permit. He looked puzzled, looked through my passport and the at the screen for about 5 minutes. He then asked where I lived in Chonburi, although I had put Muang in the address. I said with my wife, and she is waiting over there for me. Just grunted and stamped the passport.

Hope you get someone else.

I got a lady who seemed to take forever checking peoples documents but was very thorough & stamped me in to the correct date (in the Visa class she wrote “Non RE” which I assume means Non-Imm visa re-entry permit).

 

Oh & she also asked me what province I lived in (also Chonburi).

 

I was one of only 2 Farangs crossing at that time (other chap was a nice guy, been here 26 years & lives in Udon Thani but I didn’t catch his name or whether he was a member on AN) & lots of (I’m assuming) Laos travellers being turned away, at the counter my GF said she overheard the IO next lane to ours tell a guy that he’s only been outside of Thailand for 1 hour so go away & come back later.