Ukraine war: Blinken says China may give weapons to Russia

[John Drake]

19 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It's a virtually universally observed phenomenon that the two most important factors in determining how much foreign trade one nation does with another is

 1 :proximity and

2. the economic strength of the nation's involved.   

Obviously, China beats America on both counts.

            The rational best that America can hope for is for Thailand to remain neutral.

 

 

 

 

Ah, so that explains the welcoming warmth and yearning for deeper ties that Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and Ukraine have towards Russia.

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, billyo said:

The Sino-Thai elite which own most of the country has deep personal and cultural and business ties back with the old country and if they had to pick a side it would probably be China but they would rather straddle both camps and play them off against each other.

There are those in Thailand who do fear the increasing Chinafication of the country. Just yesterday in the Bangkok Post there was an article about 600 illegal Chinese associations being used to funnel in Chinese to live here. And that was 600 illegal associations in just one province. Today, there is another article in the Bangkok Post about the Federation of Thai Industries fearing a tidal wave of cheap Chinese manufactured goods. Right now, a lot of Thai food and raw materials are exported to China, while Thailand receives manufactured goods in return. That is model for colonial mercantilism.  https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/exports/china     https://tradingeconomics.com/china/exports/thailand

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, John Drake said:

Ah, so that explains the welcoming warmth and yearning for deeper ties that Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and Ukraine have towards Russia.

Russia may have proximity, but it has a very underdeveloped economy. Not a lot to offer these neighbors apart from raw materials end energy. Also, Thailand has no history of China conquering and absorbing Thai territory.

[ThailandRyan]

Just now, placeholder said:

Russia may have proximity, but it has a very underdeveloped economy. Not a lot to offer these neighbors apart from raw materials end energy. Also, Thailand has no history of China conquering and absorbing Thai territory.

Rama 5 gave away Siamese cats to the leaders of the surrounding countries while giving territorial concessions to the British and the French in order to gain railways through the country which could be used for trade as well as to ensure Thailand's Sovereignty.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chulalongkorn

 

China did try through the Haw Insurgency to take land from Thailand and it failed

 

Haw insurgency[edit]

In the northern Laotian lands bordering China, the insurgents of the Taiping Rebellion had taken refuge since the reign of King Mongkut. These Chinese were called Haw and became bandits, pillaging the villages. In 1875, Chulalongkorn sent troops from Bangkok to crush the Haw who had ravaged as far as Vientiane. However, they met strong Chinese resistance and retreated to Isan in 1885. New, modernized forces were sent again and were divided into two groups approaching the Haw from Chiang Kam and Pichai. The Haw scattered and some fled to Vietnam. The Siamese armies proceeded to eliminate the remaining Haw. The city of Nong Khai maintains memorials for the Siamese dead.

[Kwasaki]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Russia may have proximity, but it has a very underdeveloped economy. Not a lot to offer these neighbors apart from raw materials end energy. Also, Thailand has no history of China conquering and absorbing Thai territory.

Come on Thais came from Southern China there are many Chinese /Thais which I have as friends and they laugh when I say the Chinese invaded with the one eyed one headed monster.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Come on Thais came from Southern China there are many Chinese /Thais which I have as friends and they laugh when I say the Chinese invaded with the one eyed one headed monster.

Are you claiming that the Chinese did invade Thailand? What's your point?

[billyo]

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

There are those in Thailand who do fear the increasing Chinafication of the country. Just yesterday in the Bangkok Post there was an article about 600 illegal Chinese associations being used to funnel in Chinese to live here. And that was 600 illegal associations in just one province. Today, there is another article in the Bangkok Post about the Federation of Thai Industries fearing a tidal wave of cheap Chinese manufactured goods. Right now, a lot of Thai food and raw materials are exported to China, while Thailand receives manufactured goods in return. That is model for colonial mercantilism.  https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/exports/china     https://tradingeconomics.com/china/exports/thailand

I'm sure a smarter PM could play them both off to the benefit of Thailand and to their credit they resisted the high speed train that China was offering to build reputedly because the kick backs weren't enough rather than any principle. That said if they ever allowed the Chinese navy anywhere near Sattahip that they might find their western bank accounts and Harrods's cards no longer working.

 

Western capitalism has helped the Chinese rise to be a global superpower and unwinding our dependency on them peacefully is a decades long project and if it happens precipitously at the point of a gun then all bets are off for the global economy but one thing's for sure it will be brutal and savage in it's implications for the little folk just trying to get by.

 

It is rumoured that Lenin wrote, “When it comes time to hang the capitalists, they will vie with each other for the rope contract.” Indeed.

 

 

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Rama 5 gave away Siamese cats to the leaders of the surrounding countries while giving territorial concessions to the British and the French in order to gain railways through the country which could be used for trade as well as to ensure Thailand's Sovereignty.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chulalongkorn

 

China did try through the Haw Insurgency to take land from Thailand and it failed

 

Haw insurgency[edit]

In the northern Laotian lands bordering China, the insurgents of the Taiping Rebellion had taken refuge since the reign of King Mongkut. These Chinese were called Haw and became bandits, pillaging the villages. In 1875, Chulalongkorn sent troops from Bangkok to crush the Haw who had ravaged as far as Vientiane. However, they met strong Chinese resistance and retreated to Isan in 1885. New, modernized forces were sent again and were divided into two groups approaching the Haw from Chiang Kam and Pichai. The Haw scattered and some fled to Vietnam. The Siamese armies proceeded to eliminate the remaining Haw. The city of Nong Khai maintains memorials for the Siamese dead.

The Haw may have been ethnically Chinese, but the weren't agents of the Chinese govt.

[Kwasaki]

27 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Are you claiming that the Chinese did invade Thailand? What's your point?

Not as Siam and Thailand as it has come to be,  lighten up man, the Thais originate from China. 

 

[billd766]

22 hours ago, 300sd said:

Interesting statement above by the NATO Secretary General. I thought the war just started a year ago! It's been going on for about 8 years according to him. Well then who started it 8 years ago? Just wondering!!!

Why would you wonder who started the problem 8 years ago.

 

Simply do an online search and you will be able to find out quite easily.

 

If you truly don't know at this point, I start to wonder where you have been in the last 10, 15, 20 years or so.

 

There is so much information out on the internet that I would not start to point you in any direction.

 

You need to search for what you want and not what is pointed out for you.

[farmerjo]

If no one is interested in peace.

Let's see what the Chinese have.

It will be either good or bad.

[Saanim]

23 hours ago, billyo said:

America is becoming much less important to Thailand than  it was, indeed some of the more militant yellow shirts like to frame the US as inflaming the student democracy protests. The Sino-Thai elite which own most of the country has deep personal and cultural and business ties back with the old country and if they had to pick a side it would probably be China but they would rather straddle both camps and play them off against each other. The army is happy to buy duff equipment from any country if the price and kick backs are right - Chinese submarines anyone ?  India,China and Russia are current "besties"  but all money is "good" as far a the country is concerned. Thailand has no need to fear any US sanctions if any were to happen and besides which it's not in US interests to push Thailand away in any meaningful way. Disappointment maybe expressed diplomatically but that would be it.

 

22 hours ago, billyo said:

They will be both neutral and two faced. If China was to invade (which they wouldn't) they would roll over in a day and go "Vichy" with their compliance. Just like they did back in WW2. Prayuth is no Zelinskiy , indeed that is not the point of the army in the Land of Smiles. What's the point of fighting if your country is destroyed in the process. Indeed Thailand is looking to be a safe haven if the world goes to pot and you keep your head down,just ask the Russians !

I doubt there had been complaints about Thailand taking the side years ago during the Vietnam war.  Wasn't it quite comfortable having the military based over the mountains, enjoying the peaceful country and its Smiles?   

[Saanim]

16 hours ago, farmerjo said:

If no one is interested in peace.

Let's see what the Chinese have.

It will be either good or bad.

About the "red line" for China there was a talk in Munchen by Chinese FM and EU Borrell.  Only few media mentioned about that talk.

 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Saanim said:

About the "red line" for China there was a talk in Munchen by Chinese FM and EU Borrell.  Only few media mentioned about that talk.

 

Rubbish.

 

“China has not been able to condemn the invasion,” NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told a group of reporters. Beijing’s peace plan, he added, “is quite vague.” Peace, the NATO chief emphasized, is only possible if Russia respects Ukraine’s sovereignty.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/china-wang-yi-peace-europe-joe-biden-munich-security-conference/

 

https://www.newsweek.com/eu-chief-calls-more-ammo-ukraine-top-chinese-diplomat-urges-peace-1782525

Edited February 22, 2023 by ozimoron

[placeholder]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

Oh, well, if State Counsellor Wang Yi denies it, then it must be so. 

I can remember that several months before the Russian invasion ...er...special military operation, the Biden administration insisted that Russia was planning to invade Ukraine. But they shouldn't have worried about that because...

 

Russian MFA says Russia won’t invade Ukraine, blames US for ‘aggressive plans’

https://tass.com/politics/1400517

 

Joe Biden must have felt really foolish on February 24, 2022.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Scott

[Saanim]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Oh, well, if State Counsellor Wang Yi denies it, then it must be so. 

I can remember that several months before the Russian invasion ...er...special military operation, the Biden administration insisted that Russia was planning to invade Ukraine. But they shouldn't have worried about that because...

 

Russian MFA says Russia won’t invade Ukraine, blames US for ‘aggressive plans’

https://tass.com/politics/1400517

 

Joe Biden must have felt really foolish on February 24, 2022.

That was not the point of the unpleasant Chinese question, but never mind. Anyway, it seems that whatever you don't like to read, anything ridiculous or deflecting you need to tell us.  Are you on full duty 24/7?

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed along with replies.

 

27. You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Only post a link, the headline and three sentences from the article. Content in the public domain is limited to the same restrictions.

 

https://aseannow.com/terms/

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, Saanim said:

That was not the point of the unpleasant Chinese question, but never mind. Anyway, it seems that whatever you don't like to read, anything ridiculous or deflecting you need to tell us.  Are you on full duty 24/7?

I'm sure that your comment made sense to you. And that you of all people would accuse somebody else of deflection betrays a certain lack of self knowledge on your part. Aren't you the person who raised the 50 year old issue of Vietnam in this very threat?

[Social Media]

 

[ozimoron]

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warned China of “serious consequences” if it helps Russia evade U.S. sanctions, calling for even tighter economic restrictions on Moscow as the Ukraine war nears its one year mark.

“We have made clear that providing material support to Russia or assistance with any kind of systemic sanctions evasion would be a very serious concern for us,” Yellen said at the Group of 20 meeting in India on Thursday. “We will certainly continue to make clear to the Chinese government and the companies and banks in their jurisdiction about what the rules are regarding our sanctions and the serious consequences they would face for violating them.”

 

https://thehill.com/policy/international/3870782-yellen-warns-china-of-serious-consequences-if-it-helps-russia-evade-us-sanctions/

[placeholder]

On 2/22/2023 at 10:12 PM, Saanim said:

That was not the point of the unpleasant Chinese question, but never mind. Anyway, it seems that whatever you don't like to read, anything ridiculous or deflecting you need to tell us.  Are you on full duty 24/7?

Just think of me as your guardian angel.