Has the "Ukrainien-Fewer" reached Thailand?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

And of course New Zealand had no indigenous people in it when the colonists arrived, invaded

55555555555555555555555

 

They don't live on reservations.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Retirement pensions and retirement criteria  in France are under tension

One wonders how Macron can sleep at night when trying to squeeze french retirees while promising to spend billions in Ukraine. I guess politicians live in a separate bubble from the citizens they exploit.

 

IMO the people will eventually ( hopefully sooner than later ) force their governments to stop spending billions on weapons in Ukraine and start supporting their own people in hard times, which is their job- not making war in other countries when their own country is not under threat.

When that happens it's game over for Ukraine and IMO they'll end up doing what they could have done a year ago- give up some land to Russia and guarantee not to join NATO, which would have saved a lot of death and destruction, not to forget the chaos imposed on the rest of the world.

 

Going by the recent posts on this thread, the tide is turning against the politicians throwing money at Ukraine while times are hard at home. Not so long ago such posts would have invited a tirade against them.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, rabang said:

You can't escape Kremlin trolls anywhere nowadays.

 

Russia is being militarized, becoming more and more totalitarian each day and preparing for a long war. This might be only the beginning. Expect possibly decades of war and hostilities between Russia and the West.

You must be too young to remember the cold war and BAOR. Been there done that.

[rabang]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You must be too young to remember the cold war and BAOR. Been there done that.

I was thinking if I should call it a new cold war but I think it might sound a bit cliched. Even though there might be paralells times have changed in many ways. Different eras, different situations.

Edited February 22, 2023 by rabang

[rabang]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

One wonders how Macron can sleep at night when trying to squeeze french retirees while promising to spend billions in Ukraine. I guess politicians live in a separate bubble from the citizens they exploit.

 

IMO the people will eventually ( hopefully sooner than later ) force their governments to stop spending billions on weapons in Ukraine and start supporting their own people in hard times, which is their job- not making war in other countries when their own country is not under threat.

When that happens it's game over for Ukraine and IMO they'll end up doing what they could have done a year ago- give up some land to Russia and guarantee not to join NATO, which would have saved a lot of death and destruction, not to forget the chaos imposed on the rest of the world.

 

Going by the recent posts on this thread, the tide is turning against the politicians throwing money at Ukraine while times are hard at home. Not so long ago such posts would have invited a tirade against them.

Ok, here we go again with another advocate of the Kremlin talking points. Any submission to Russia will only make them rearm themselves and prepare for another try. Russia is already at a war with the collective west, in their own minds at least. How does that not place other countries under threat? Have you forgotten all the assassinations they committed on British soil?

Edited February 22, 2023 by rabang

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, rabang said:

Ok, here we go again with another advocate of the Kremlin talking points. Any submission to Russia will only make them rearm themselves and prepare for another try. Russia is already at a war with the collective west, in their own minds at least. How does that not place other countries under threat? Have you forgotten all the assassinations they committed on British soil?

Ok, here we go again with another psychic that knows what will happen in the future.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, rabang said:

I was thinking if I should call it a new cold war but I think it might sound a bit cliched. Even though there might be paralells times have changed in many ways. Different eras, different situations.

Different era, but same Great Game.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ok, here we go again with another psychic that knows what will happen in the future.

It's now. Ask Byelorus about Russian imperialism.

[RamenRaven]

Average Thai that you meet on the street:

 

Ukraine! Is that a city in Russia?

Russians! Another kind of farang. Can they eat spicy food? Russia is next to England?

Fighting already ended right? No news about it on Thai social media, so things must be back to normal.

 

Then you meet the occasional Thai history/politics buff, usually a middle-aged man, who has very strong opinions and would take sides.

 

The rest don't care or know much about the outside world.

 

Back to their plate of som tam and another bottle of Chang beer. Who cares, farangs are all the same anyways!

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by RamenRaven

[Jingthing]

13 hours ago, rabang said:

I was thinking if I should call it a new cold war but I think it might sound a bit cliched. Even though there might be paralells times have changed in many ways. Different eras, different situations.

It's more like a new hot war.

[Sametboy2019]

On 2/21/2023 at 10:54 PM, Jingthing said:

Yeah but have you noticed that many young Russians are saying NYET and voting with their feet (that's the only real vote they have). 

Yep Jomtien Night market was 90% Russian the other night

[swissie]

On 2/21/2023 at 5:36 PM, gearbox said:

The Hungarians were never friendly to Russia, they are just looking after their own interests. So do the Swiss, the experts in money laundering, the blood and crime money are always welcome, most dictators and mass murderers have Swiss bank accounts and real estate. Oligarchs Central.

a) The Hungarians of 1956 and the Hungarians of 2023 is a different crowd. Them having re-elected their favorite despot (Mr. Orban) time and time again. Gladly supporting Mr. Orbans strict anty EU stance. Mr. Orban has successfully managed to steer Hungary away from "Western Values", nudging Hungary closer and closer to "Russian Ways". They will still gladly accept the annual EU transfer payments, but they will shoot at Russians only hesitantly, if at all.

b) Old clichees die hard: "Every Swiss makes watches in his spare time, All Swiss cheeses have holes, Switzerland is perfect for money laundering". Since the mid 90ties, legislation makes money laundering difficult. For example: Every account movement exceeding CHF 10'000 must be reported to authorities. Even for Swiss citizens. "The Bank Secrecy Law" has long  been abolished for foreighners. Instead, for money laundering purposes, I rather recommend places like some Caribbean Islands, the British Channel Islands or the State of Delaware in the US.

 

[rabang]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ok, here we go again with another psychic that knows what will happen in the future.

Russian history of constant wars, especially during Putin's era, is a pretty good indicator of what might happen in the future. Plus Putin's hopes of returning the borders of the old Soviet era Russian empire.

[swissie]

18 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

One wonders how Macron can sleep at night when trying to squeeze french retirees while promising to spend billions in Ukraine. I guess politicians live in a separate bubble from the citizens they exploit.

 

IMO the people will eventually ( hopefully sooner than later ) force their governments to stop spending billions on weapons in Ukraine and start supporting their own people in hard times, which is their job- not making war in other countries when their own country is not under threat.

When that happens it's game over for Ukraine and IMO they'll end up doing what they could have done a year ago- give up some land to Russia and guarantee not to join NATO, which would have saved a lot of death and destruction, not to forget the chaos imposed on the rest of the world.

 

Going by the recent posts on this thread, the tide is turning against the politicians throwing money at Ukraine while times are hard at home. Not so long ago such posts would have invited a tirade against them.

Yep. No matter what the Ukraine or we do, it will always be 10:1 in favor of the Russians. The Donbas and the Crimea will remain Russian. In the Donbas most people speak Russian and feel Russian. The Crimea was Russian Territory since Katharina the great. Given as a gift to the Ukraine by Nikita Chrustschow in 1954.

That is the best the Ukraine can hope for.

 

To regain all "the lost" terrain is an Ukrainian illusion. Only bringing us nearer to the 3rd WW.

[RamenRaven]

From a Thai's perspective, they'd be thinking:

 

 

"Yawn, farangs talking about farangs. So confusing. What are they fighting about? Don't they all know each other in Prathet Farang?

 

Aren't they all the same? Putin and Macron both look like the same person, what's the difference?

I wish that I could speak Farang (phuut farang) so that I could understand Farangs better.

 

I have heard that Ukraine girls are really pretty. So why do farangs still prefer dark-skinned women?"

 

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, swissie said:

Yep. No matter what the Ukraine or we do, it will always be 10:1 in favor of the Russians. The Donbas and the Crimea will remain Russian. In the Donbas most people speak Russian and feel Russian. The Crimea was Russian Territory since Katharina the great. Given as a gift to the Ukraine by Nikita Chrustschow in 1954.

That is the best the Ukraine can hope for.

 

To regain all "the lost" terrain is an Ukrainian illusion. Only bringing us nearer to the 3rd WW.

Zelensky's first language is Russian. Language is not an indicator of national affiliation and political sympathies. Many US politicians were appeasers at the beginning of WW2 because of the war of independence.

 

3 minutes ago, RamenRaven said:

From a Thai's perspective, they'd be thinking:

 

"Yawn, farangs talking about farangs. So confusing. What are they fighting about? Don't they all know each other in Prathet Farang?

 

Aren't they all the same? Putin and Macron both look like the same person, what's the difference?

I wish that I could speak Farang (phuut farang) so that I could understand Farangs better.

 

I have heard that Ukraine girls are really pretty. So why do farangs still prefer dark-skinned women?"

 

This is just gratuitous Thai bashing and nationalist hegemony. Why assume that Thais are any less sophisticated than any other nation? Other comments in your post are off topic garbage designed to deflect.

[swissie]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

One wonders how Macron can sleep at night when trying to squeeze french retirees while promising to spend billions in Ukraine. I guess politicians live in a separate bubble from the citizens they exploit.

 

IMO the people will eventually ( hopefully sooner than later ) force their governments to stop spending billions on weapons in Ukraine and start supporting their own people in hard times, which is their job- not making war in other countries when their own country is not under threat.

When that happens it's game over for Ukraine and IMO they'll end up doing what they could have done a year ago- give up some land to Russia and guarantee not to join NATO, which would have saved a lot of death and destruction, not to forget the chaos imposed on the rest of the world.

 

Going by the recent posts on this thread, the tide is turning against the politicians throwing money at Ukraine while times are hard at home. Not so long ago such posts would have invited a tirade against them.

Cutting down Social Security benefits is a trend that has started. Not only in France. But sending money to the ever growing community to "failed states" is on the upswing.

- The most FINANCIAL help for the Ukraine has come from 3 countries. The US, Germany and FRANCE. Under these condidions, I wonder how long it will be before the French will put their "Guillotines" back into action.

[RamenRaven]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

This is just gratuitous Thai bashing and nationalist hegemony. Why assume that Thais are any less sophisticated than any other nation? Other comments in your post are off topic garbage designed to deflect.

Meanwhile in Farangland:

 

"All Asians look the same."

 

During lockdown times, Thais, Filipinos, and even Mexicans, Peruvians, Central Americans, and Afghans all got beaten up because Farangs couldn't tell the difference and didn't care if they were different.

 

Much less sophisticated than Thais.

 

[rabang]

Can't really blame Thais if the thinking among westerners is as superficial as in "Russian speaking people in Donbass must feel themselves Russian".

Edited February 23, 2023 by rabang

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, RamenRaven said:

Average Thai that you meet on the street:

 

Ukraine! Is that a city in Russia?

Russians! Another kind of farang. Can they eat spicy food? Russia is next to England?

Fighting already ended right? No news about it on Thai social media, so things must be back to normal.

 

Then you meet the occasional Thai history/politics buff, usually a middle-aged man, who has very strong opinions and would take sides.

 

The rest don't care or know much about the outside world.

 

Back to their plate of som tam and another bottle of Chang beer. Who cares, farangs are all the same anyways!

 

and the point you are making is?

 

If they cared ( and why should they? ) they might not support the west. They might make more money from Russian tourists than American tourists.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, rabang said:

Russian history of constant wars, especially during Putin's era, is a pretty good indicator of what might happen in the future. Plus Putin's hopes of returning the borders of the old Soviet era Russian empire.

Hmmmmm. If we were to add up all the wars under Putin and all the wars by America during the same time period, which would be the most?

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, swissie said:

a) The Hungarians of 1956 and the Hungarians of 2023 is a different crowd. Them having re-elected their favorite despot (Mr. Orban) time and time again. Gladly supporting Mr. Orbans strict anty EU stance. Mr. Orban has successfully managed to steer Hungary away from "Western Values", nudging Hungary closer and closer to "Russian Ways". They will still gladly accept the annual EU transfer payments, but they will shoot at Russians only hesitantly, if at all.

I only know as much about Hungary as what I see on tv news, but seems to me they have very real problems with the EU's willingness to take in every undocumented immigrant that manages to reach the EU's southern shores. I don't condemn them for that reluctance.

[rabang]

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmmm. If we were to add up all the wars under Putin and all the wars by America during the same time period, which would be the most?

It would depend on the definition of a war and involvement in it. I can say that Putin has started or participated in at least five wars during 22 years. However, whataboutism is not an argument, even though it is a classic Russian trick.

[Dcheech]

9 hours ago, swissie said:

The Hungarians of 1956 and the Hungarians of 2023 is a different crowd.

Euro forgetfullness is creeping in. How about another date; the Hungarians of 1942-45. Whatever train comes in the station, they will happily jump aboard. 

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, rabang said:

It would depend on the definition of a war and involvement in it. I can say that Putin has started or participated in at least five wars during 22 years. However, whataboutism is not an argument, even though it is a classic Russian trick.

If whataboutism is at play here so is off topic. The topic isn't the history of Putin's rule, it's about Ukrainian fever in LOS.

[Dcheech]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The topic isn't the history of Putin's rule, it's about Ukrainian fever in LOS.

You have the floor. Where in LOS have you spotted Ukranian Fever? All Ears.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmmm. If we were to add up all the wars under Putin and all the wars by America during the same time period, which would be the most?

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If whataboutism is at play here so is off topic. The topic isn't the history of Putin's rule, it's about Ukrainian fever in LOS.

Then why did you drag it off topic?

 

How is Putin off topic in a thread about the Ukraine war?

Edited February 24, 2023 by ozimoron

[shackleton]

Why would Thais worry about The war between Ukraine and Russia won't affect them 

Now plenty of Russian tourists who could stop coming to Thailand ie Phuket 

Pattaya that's a different ball game involves ????

[Jingthing]

32 minutes ago, shackleton said:

Why would Thais worry about The war between Ukraine and Russia won't affect them 

Now plenty of Russian tourists who could stop coming to Thailand ie Phuket 

Pattaya that's a different ball game involves ????

Nuclear winter

[Tropposurfer]

If Putin had the capacity within his army to take Ukraine he would have managed that in short order post invasion a year ago.

He didn't. Why?

Because his troops are poorly trained, veery poorly equipped, and poorly led. Unmotivated at best.

The Ukrainians on the other hand showed their battle mettle and drove then back over large areas of the nation, despite being almost straight to the lines from office and other civilian jobs, and with little equipment in those first vital months of holding lines and denying easy gains to Russia. 

Yes they have superiority over Ukraine in sheer numbers of troops and arms but much of these advantages are inferior in functioning of arms and their agedness, poor support and supply inventory and lines for repairs spares etc.

Most importantly the fighting will of the Ukrainian troops is far superior. Putins also Russia has less capacity to simply turn-on war production than NATO or the US (even though for the West it will take many months to do).

 

This imbalance in the field  is evidenced by the slog and creeping gains made by Russia despite what appears to be much greater superiority on paper.

The routing that began with the Ukraine counter-offensive dating back some six months or so proves that Russia is not as dangerous in the field as once believed.

If Putin manages a successful Spring offensive he will possibly retake ground of significance for some time but in the event this happens then NATO will upsurge and add new inventory to counter this.

I have spoken with some Ukrainians in Phuket and it appears to me they will show a metal that never surrender and for Putin that means the Ukraine will be another Afghanistan for him if it drags out.

 

Putins armies capacity to hold ground under concentrated counter-offence has proven to be impotent to date.

The Ukrainians have shown their superior skills in outthinking tactically and prosecuting offensive, and counter-offensives and simply blind siding the Russians at every turn. Ukriane air forces despite being tiny by comparison have smashed Russian assets every time they have taken to the air.

Putins expending of a lot of ordinance in random bombing of civilians, and deliberate targeting of infrastructure which my Ukriane friends tell me won't deter the Ukrainians from fighting one bit ... on the contrary. It simply pokes the hornets - he's making a big mistake expending his arm stockpiles doing this too. 

 

The Ukrainians are the feared Cossacks remember with centuries of fierce fighting history and reputation. The Russians know this to a man too. This has been proven by Ukraines killing in numerous contacts en mass both Wagner and Chechen mercenaries whio are said to be extremely fierce fighters. 

 

The threat of a huge offensive may be an illusion as far as ground troops and armour is concerned, because so far Putin has fielded a lot of older and far less capable armour than the west previously believed he had, and he has sustained huge armoured losses.

The influx of updated T-tanks and Leopards from NATO will prove a powerful killing force.

It appears from diverse and reliable sources Putins filling airbases with planes outside Ukrainian firing range which seems to support the notions of an ever increasing Spring Offensive as already starting and about to ramp up according to people on the ground and actual serving, and recently ex-military commentators.