Spinal Probems

[Larryst]

My lower back has a problem with my L4 & L5 disks (for years). They are degrading. I had a cortisone shot a few years ago (2nd time) and it relieved the pain for awhile. I checked on line and it says a person should only have 3 shots in his lifetime. Also online, I seen that cortisone shots can also cause blood clots. I had a blood clot about a year ago. Ended up in BPH for 3 weeks. I have been checking on the procedure of OLIF (Oblique Lateral Interbody Fusion). Has anyone tried it here in Thailand. If so, did it work. Which hospital to recommend for spinal repair & estimated cost. 

[Hummin]

What have you done physically to prevent back pain? 

 

Medication does not solve the problem. 

 

Exercise, stretching, not sit lay down to long, food, drinks, sleep matters if you want a life with less pain. It is a lifelong dedication. I know, and sometimes I struggle with motivation and need a reminder that I need to get my ass up and out do what I need to do. 

 

Of course said knowing nothing about your case.

 

Anyway I feel with you, it is horrible to have pain in your L4 and L5, and as said it is a lifelong dedication to keep it pain free, since medication do not help, especially if it get inflammation often, it is more about lifestyle, and changes is needed and necessary.

[KhunLA]

Fusion is a last resort option.  Have you tried, actually tried everything else.

 

Do you do your daily back exercises, emphasis on daily.  Working lower back muscles, both concave/convex, stretching, side to side.  As important, is your weight where it should be, taking the stress off the discs.

 

If you think your mobility, 'flexibility' is limited now, it will be more so after the fusion.  If all has been exhausted, then yes, fusion works.  

 

Haven't read about the one you ask about, as does sound quicker, but fusion is fusion.  As stated, a last resort.

 

Don't discount a chiropractor, though finding a good one can be a challenge.  Dr Oat in Krung Thep is the only one I found that was good, out of 3 that I've used.

 

I was told I needed surgery 23 yrs ago.  I went the chiropractor (excellent/USA) route, and exercises.  Been pain free for 23 yrs ago.

 

Also keep my weight where it should be, almost, and don't do anything to aggravate my 2 herniated disc (past surgery, 28 yrs ago) & 5 degenerative discs.

Edited February 25, 2023 by KhunLA

[yankyoakum]

X oilfield ad have lived with this since the 1980's,  did Chiropractor, multiple MRI's and results from last one as well as degenerative discs, they had no kind words for anything from L5 to S7 I also have scoliosis. Before retiring in Thailand really good orthopedic surgeon told me until I can't live with the pain don't get surgery. It said it would be minor help at best.. I brought a Teeter inversion table to hang upside down when it gets bad..IE severe pain running from Butt down right leg.. Usually a stiff drink and hanging upside down will cause a loud POP...Agree with others that exercise and keep moving is best, I have a small pool and walk in it, bicycle my legs in the corner and try and do squats in bathroom holding a gab rail as well as 45 degree pushups.. Usually pain free unless do I something stupid,  pick up a big Chinese flower pot to move where wife thinks it needs to be.   The days of being 10 feet tall and bullet proof are long gone...

[scubascuba3]

There was a post a few weeks ago from someone who had back surgery, it was deleted quickly. Made his back worse, so do a lot of research before having a spine op here

 

[KhunLA]

On my 2 herniated disc, repaired 1995, (not fused) relief was instant & successful.  Ask how to keep it that way, told to change jobs and behave myself.

 

Few years later, aggravated it, to bulging again, possibly more, and told by different doc, surgery was needed.  Gave that a pass, as pain as less than 1st time, and took the first docs suggestion, and retired.   Chiro visit everyday for 30 days & exercised, and I was pain free.   Onward forward, exercises and occasional chiro visits, along with behaving myself has, as stated, kept me pain free.

 

First doc after surgery, said 'when you aggravate it again and need surgery, I'll fuse it for you'.  Naturedly I asked, why didn't you do it this time.   Told I was too young, and fusion is not something you want to do at my age, 40 and very active.  So he was right, within 5 yrs I screwed it up again, but not as bad as first time.

 

Before surgery, I couldn't roll over in bed without instant shooting/stabbing pain.  Let along stand or walk for any amount of time/distance.  Next day, I was up & out of bed, walking around pain free.

[Larryst]

I tried the muscle relaxers and pain medicine. Works for awhile, I don't like taking them all the time. Only when the pain is too much. I tried exercises and it helps a little. A few years ago I had the procedure Spinal Stenosis helps to reopen your spinal canal, the channel in your backbone that houses your spinal cord and nerves. That helped great. Except it lasted for 3 weeks and it was back to where it was. After that I took the steroid or cortisone shot and that lasted for over a year.  Lately when I get up in the morning is when I get the pain in the lower back and goes away after a few hours of moving around.

[Hummin]

23 minutes ago, yankyoakum said:

X oilfield ad have lived with this since the 1980's,  did Chiropractor, multiple MRI's and results from last one as well as degenerative discs, they had no kind words for anything from L5 to S7 I also have scoliosis. Before retiring in Thailand really good orthopedic surgeon told me until I can't live with the pain don't get surgery. It said it would be minor help at best.. I brought a Teeter inversion table to hang upside down when it gets bad..IE severe pain running from Butt down right leg.. Usually a stiff drink and hanging upside down will cause a loud POP...Agree with others that exercise and keep moving is best, I have a small pool and walk in it, bicycle my legs in the corner and try and do squats in bathroom holding a gab rail as well as 45 degree pushups.. Usually pain free unless do I something stupid,  pick up a big Chinese flower pot to move where wife thinks it needs to be.   The days of being 10 feet tall and bullet proof are long gone...

Rowing machine, swimming and walking the beach as well soft massage helped me as well diet and stop drinking alcohol until the inflammation was healed. 

 

Then I started going to gym again strengthen my back with proper exercises, and stretching which really isn't stretching but i increasing mobility slowly without pushing it. 

 

It becomes a lifestyle 

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, Larryst said:

I tried the muscle relaxers and pain medicine. Works for awhile, I don't like taking them all the time. Only when the pain is too much. I tried exercises and it helps a little. A few years ago I had the procedure Spinal Stenosis helps to reopen your spinal canal, the channel in your backbone that houses your spinal cord and nerves. That helped great. Except it lasted for 3 weeks and it was back to where it was. After that I took the steroid or cortisone shot and that lasted for over a year.  Lately when I get up in the morning is when I get the pain in the lower back and goes away after a few hours of moving around.

First thing do your warm up and stretches to face the day

[KhunLA]

10 minutes ago, Larryst said:

Lately when I get up in the morning is when I get the pain in the lower back and goes away after a few hours of moving around.

Doesn't read like your ready or need surgery... yet.

 

I'd go the Chiro and exercise/maintenance of you back muscles that support your disc.   Also includes stomach crunches, and weight control.

 

good luck

[sungod]

You mentioned BPH, I'm guessing then you are in Pattaya?

 

Before you think about surgery, which is the last resort I'd strongly recommend you go and see a physio.

 

Pop down and see Sergy @ Motionwellness, helped me and quite a few friends with different issues.

 

https://www.facebook.com/motionwellnesspattaya/

[seajae]

had it since '93, L4/5 s1/2, couldnt do very much by myself for 6 months(shower, sit & get off a toilet, wipe my bum etc), wore a back brace(from bum to shoulder) for a couple of years, if I twist I collapse(lose all sensation below the waist), if I walk for too long my feet stop working(cant lift them off the ground  and trip on grass), pain 24/7 in varying degrees, pain radiates through the groin down both legs into my toes, also intense pins & needles, did pain management as well as several other things  but none of it helped so was on opoids for pain  and meds to stop severe mood swings. After a little over 20 years I weened myself off the meds with the help of some home made "cookies" and now I just put up with the pain, some days are pretty bad and some not so bad, cant do a lot of physical things but I refuse to lie down and die, saw several top specialists in Australia, each wanted to do different things but I refused any ops after speaking to people that had had them and after what they told me they go through. Would love to be able to wake up with no pain and do some physical things  I used to do again(used to be heavily involved in sport at state representitive level, even going fishing) but know its highly unlikely to happen, medical procedures are definitely a very last resort until they can guarantee my mobility will be better and pain free, until then I will just keep laughing and joking with a smile on my face to hide what I am going through, unfortunately what works for one doesnt always work for others

Edited February 25, 2023 by seajae

[scubascuba3]

56 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

On my 2 herniated disc, repaired 1995, (not fused) relief was instant & successful.  Ask how to keep it that way, told to change jobs and behave myself.

 

Few years later, aggravated it, to bulging again, possibly more, and told by different doc, surgery was needed.  Gave that a pass, as pain as less than 1st time, and took the first docs suggestion, and retired.   Chiro visit everyday for 30 days & exercised, and I was pain free.   Onward forward, exercises and occasional chiro visits, along with behaving myself has, as stated, kept me pain free.

 

First doc after surgery, said 'when you aggravate it again and need surgery, I'll fuse it for you'.  Naturedly I asked, why didn't you do it this time.   Told I was too young, and fusion is not something you want to do at my age, 40 and very active.  So he was right, within 5 yrs I screwed it up again, but not as bad as first time.

 

Before surgery, I couldn't roll over in bed without instant shooting/stabbing pain.  Let along stand or walk for any amount of time/distance.  Next day, I was up & out of bed, walking around pain free.

This thread is making my back ache.

 

Would be good to hear feedback on any back ops in Thailand.

 

 

[Sheryl]

There are now much less invasive alternatives to fusion e.g. minimally invasive decompression surgeries. Whether suitable in your soecific case, you'd have to ask a spinal specialist. 

 

I has minimally invasive decompression of lumbar spine done here, excellent results. My sister had surgery on both cervical and lumbar spine here, also excellent result. Wife of my Canbodian worker had 3 extensive spinal surgery here but for more complex problem related to childhood spinal trauma. Excellent result.

 

But every case is different and success very much depends on the skill and experience of the surgron which in Thailand means a handful of surgeons all located in Bangkok.

 

Regarding repeat epidural injections the recommended maximum is 2 or 3 times per year NOT per lifetime. Many people opt to forego surgery in favor of periodic injections, especially if they are poor surgical risks.

 

 

Systemic cortisone use is associated with increased risk of blood clots but not, as far as I know,

occasional localized injections.

 

I strongly suggest you consult Prof Wicharn at BNH spine center to get detailed assessment and individualized recommendations. You will need a recent MRI.  If you don't already have one can save money by getting it at an imaging center  www.mrithailand.com before seeing doctor.

[KhunLA]

23 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

This thread is making my back ache.

 

Would be good to hear feedback on any back ops in Thailand.

None here, just Chiro maintenance, and haven't needed that in about 5 yrs.   Op was @ USA (1995), recommended again in March 2001 declined & retired.  Moved here Sept 2000.  

[yankyoakum]

One more thing I forgot to mention is a good mattress. Over the years my back issues would get worse and eventually we would break down and buy a quality spring mattress. WE did that in Houston before retiring and threw some real good ones in Container.. That worked for us as wife returning Thai after 43 yrs was allowed one shipment duty free.. I'm sure there are probably good mattresses here but no idea where you'd find one..