Grant Wilson, 61, the Australian living in Vietnam for six years, during which he travelled to Thailand more than 30 times.

a) nice to know that he's the ultimate reference of the travel business in SEA
b) why is he travelling back and forth all the time? I would make up my mind and move to Thailand if I would be him.

Fact is, that I would travel much more often to Vietnam, if they would allow being 30 days in the country without a visa; similar to Laos. But these decisions have to be made by the goons of their tourism ministry .....

13 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Vietnam has one of the lowest rates of returning travellers in the area.  Very few tourists who visit actually want to visit again.  They say the traffic, noise, etc are the reasons. Plus for anyone looking to make a longer term visit, there are really no options after your 30 day tourist visa runs out. 

The air pollution in Thailand is getting worse and worse. It's hard to bear in Bangkok.

Off topic posts and replies removed

1 hour ago, Sydebolle said:

Grant Wilson, 61, the Australian living in Vietnam for six years, during which he travelled to Thailand more than 30 times.

a) nice to know that he's the ultimate reference of the travel business in SEA
b) why is he travelling back and forth all the time? I would make up my mind and move to Thailand if I would be him.

Fact is, that I would travel much more often to Vietnam, if they would allow being 30 days in the country without a visa; similar to Laos. But these decisions have to be made by the goons of their tourism ministry .....

 

Who change their minds frequently and erratically, depending which side of the bed they woke up on.

 

That also applies to the imbeciles who afford their luxury lifestyles  based on how much they can charge and extort for business visas, work permits and Residence Cards for foreign workers.

21 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

From Suvarnabhumi Airport, tourists can take a train for 35 baht ($1) to reach the downtown area in Bangkok. The Bangkok Skytrain (known as the BTS) and the Bangkok Subway (known as the MRT) are the two most convenient ways to travel around the Thai capital.

Yes, and for a mere 20,000 Baht or so you can get a police escort, too!

20 hours ago, BigStar said:

WOT??? Completely blows our narrative here. We gotta bury this thread quickly and get back to the mistreatment of tourists and expats, the horrible environment, the arrogance and unfairness of Immigration, the lack of love just for being our lovable ourselves, and how all the tourists know to go elsewhere, specifically to much better, fast growing Vietnam.  

The article quotes one persons opinion , using an extremely narrow perspective , to make its point.

The obvious question is why does the Aussie guy still choose to live in Vietnam ?

8 hours ago, SirHonkersTheFirst said:

I've lived in both. In BKK for a week right now getting a new visa for VN, and the traffic and noise and road user etiquette is light years ahead of the selfish, homocidal clowns on Vietnamese roads.

 

Almost everything is better in Thailand - food, weather, air quality, people, infrastructure, vacation destinations, etc etc.

 

Working in VN is painful - so much corruption and hoop jumping. Only to be treated like <deleted> (and cheated) by your employer. The students are, for the most part, alright.

 

HCMC and Hanoi are big, noisy, polluted, and in comparison to BKK, bland and backwards. The coastal cities are ok-ish, beaches ok-ish. Some nice natural scenery, if you survive the roads to get to these places.

 

VN is 15-20 years behing Thailand. And it is still a communist/socialist country, with pig-headed nationalism ever loitering. 

 

It's like a poor version of China, with mediocre food, sh1tty infrastructure, low pay, and no option to settle long-term, if you were foolish enough to make that choice.

 

On the upside, for every a$$clown there, there is a decent person, the COL is low, and there is some decent natural scenery.

 

I'm noping out of VN in the next 6-12 months. Too many better places/countries to  see and do. And I just can't handle the noise and near death I face every day as a road user.

If I hated some place that badly , I would have left already.

I agree with Bay Area's post. I taught in Vietnam and the classroom culture is more conducive to learning. Thais seem to have a short attention span in general and the schools I have worked at in Thailand have a "don't get too serious attitude" which undermines the discipline for learning and maintaining a learning environment.

On the other side, I found Vietnamese people to be friendly but very keen to overcharge foreigners for any and all good and services. I saw many Vietnamese vendors quite reluctant to take "no" for answer. I find Thai vendors less aggressive. I think the Vietnamese have more of a brash demeanor compared to Thai people on a day to day basis. 

As I traveled in Vietnam and encountered government officials crossing the borders, I came to the conclusion that Thai people are more gentle and know how to tolerate foreigners traveling in their country. Perhaps in the 2020s it has changed. 

Finally, anyone who has spent time in Vietnam knows the country experiences a lot of theft, bicycles, home burglaries, etc. 

 

7 hours ago, sandyf said:

In the 30s about 12% of the population of Thailand were Chinese nationals, I would doubt any occupation has reached that level of involvement.

Yet expats still question the affinity between Thailand and China.

Are any Chinese languages taught in high school , and if so , do the results compare favourably with English language study.

I imagine those original chinese immigrants would have been Cantonese or Hokien speakers , would their descendants now learn English or Mandarin ?

26 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

The article quotes one persons opinion , using an extremely narrow perspective , to make its point.

The obvious question is why does the Aussie guy still choose to live in Vietnam ?

This thread has been useful for the input from knowledgeable posters about the real downsides of VN compared to LOS. It concurs with what a couple of long-term expats living there have told me. I've been ripped off in VN as well. It has its good points, but Thailand needn't feel too threatened yet. I feel more optimism for Thailand going forward--overall.

 

Too often, for bashing purposes, we get a rosy pic and smug prophecies that "much better" VN spells the end of Thai tourism and indeed foreign investment. ????

7 minutes ago, BigStar said:

This thread has been useful for the input from knowledgeable posters about the real downsides of VN compared to LOS. It concurs with what a couple of long-term expats living there have told me. I've been ripped off in VN as well. It has its good points, but Thailand needn't feel too threatened yet. I feel more optimism for Thailand going forward--overall.

 

Too often, for bashing purposes, we get a rosy pic and smug prophecies that "much better" VN spells the end of Thai tourism and indeed foreign investment. ????

Thai Tourism wont end any more than TAT's wilder prophesies will come true .

Not a troll post but I genuinely think it's down to bar girls

25 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

Thai Tourism wont end any more than TAT's wilder prophesies will come true .

Oh, we always think TAT's numbers are wild, unless they fit the narrative. The 40 million of 2019 was greeted with the usual chorus of sneers from TAT: ANF.

 

Then COVID came along and TAT: ANF completely reversed itself and accepted the 40 million as totally credible so they could enhance the drama, hysteria, and prophetic doom about the death of the Thai economy and last of the last nails in the coffin.

 

Years ago the construction of Suvarnabhumi was announced in advance of those wild prophecies coming true. It was of course greeted with the usual forum chorus of sneers and jeers. Thailand Already Had One, and One's All That's Needed--foundational economic principles, as all's simply static. No growth in tourism would ever support it. Our vast number of Brown Envelope Bots swarmed and buzzed happily throughout the construction. Then, when it first opened, TAT: ANF members visited to find that, sure enough--it was almost deserted! HA HA HA

 

I pay no attention to TAT: ANF's judgements about what's wild and what isn't. They have cynicism and no figures. TAT does have some figures that turned out not so wild after all. I say, wait and see. Meanwhile, I'm happy to live my life in Pattaya.

 

 

9 minutes ago, decline said:

Not a troll post but I genuinely think it's down to bar girls

I've never seen Chinese, Indians, and Russians, of all the millions, showing much interest in bar girls.

11 minutes ago, BigStar said:

I've never seen Chinese, Indians, and Russians, of all the millions, showing much interest in bar girls.

Fair call by my many bar visits over a couple 'a decades.????????

24 minutes ago, BigStar said:

I've never seen Chinese, Indians, and Russians, of all the millions, showing much interest in bar girls.

Loads of Chinese businessmen hire hookers from brothels.

Indians tend to shop on beach road to avoid the bar fines.

Not sure how I would pick Russians out of the crowds of white men in bars.

 

Don't know what that has to do with the OP.

Can't see normal tourists having much to do with hookers in either Vietnam or Thailand, not that there's any shortage in either country.

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Loads of Chinese businessmen hire hookers from brothels.

Indians tend to shop on beach road to avoid the bar fines.

Not sure how I would pick Russians out of the crowds of white men in bars.

Loads don't amount to the 40 million in 2019. As you say, normal tourists (and the vast majority are normal) are just that.

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

Are any Chinese languages taught in high school , and if so , do the results compare favourably with English language study.

I imagine those original chinese immigrants would have been Cantonese or Hokien speakers , would their descendants now learn English or Mandarin ?

Mandarin. Most Singapore Chinese weren't Mandarin speakers originally but that's the official Chinese language.

9 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

As a Brit myself, and with respect, I get 15 days.

For reference, the list of countries which get "visa free" entry to Vietnam (USA, China, Australia and New Zealand are not listed)

 

No.	Country	Maximum visa-free duration	Applicable purpose of visit (if any)
1	Chile	90 days	Entries that do not include remunerated activities
2	Panama	90 days	Entries that do not include remunerated activities
3	Cambodia	30 days	Not mentioned
4	Indonesia	30 days	Not mentioned
5	Kyrgyzstan	30 days	Not mentioned
6	Laos	30 days	Not mentioned
7	Malaysia	30 days	Tourism, attending press, conference/coverage, official duty, visiting relatives, business negotiation, investment, sports, or attending seminars or conferences
8	Singapore	30 days	Entries that do not include remunerated activities
9	Thailand	30 days	Not mentioned
10	Philippines	21 days	Not mentioned
11	Brunei	14 days	Not mentioned
12	Myanmar	14 days	Visiting only
13	Belarus	15 days	Not mentioned
14	Denmark	15 days	Not mentioned
15	Finland	15 days	Not mentioned
13	France	15 days	Not mentioned
17	Germany	15 days	Not mentioned
18	Italy	15 days	Not mentioned
19	Japan	15 days	Not mentioned
20	Norway	15 days	Not mentioned
21	Russia	15 days	Not mentioned
22	South Korea	15 days	Not mentioned
23	Spain	15 days	Not mentioned
24	Sweden	15 days	Not mentioned
25	United Kingdom (Not applicable to BNO)	15 days

 

UK BN(O) citizens are permanent residents of Hong Kong who were British Overseas Territories citizens (formerly British Dependent Territories citizens) until 30 June 1997, and chose to remain British by registering for BN(O) citizenship when Hong Kong was a British overseas territory.

https://www.vietnam-visa.com/vietnam-visa-exemption/

My passport is on that list but I once visited Vietnam twice within a month so I needed a visa for the second visit. It was a bit cumbersome process and will probably keep away many casual weekend visitors who reside in nearby countries.

16 hours ago, Mad mick said:

Down side local Food is lousy,  fresh produce not or no where as good as Thai or Vn infrastructure

The overall consensus from pretty much everyone who has lived there re travelled to P.I. 

14 hours ago, Cadan said:

Vietnam does and will never have the same charm

according to you which you have every right to believe, but trust me, there are plenty of expats who loved VN and have made it their home. 

13 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

Danang beach road, for example, is a what Pattaya should have designed 30 odd years ago.

12 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

12 years ago I arrived HCM with three females one evening. After I unpacked before everyone I decided to go out to the street. Within a minute a bike with a girl on back ask me if I was interested.

I brought it up as  it was so quick.

Sai Gon has a very active sex night life/ entertainment industry. you have to know where to look. it helps to have a local or ex pat show you where to find it. its more discreet than BKK and definitely more so than Pattaya/ Phuket. but it's there and plentiful for the avid punters. 

4 hours ago, BayArea said:

Ha Ha.....a bit more developed than that now........but Pattaya had it's chance, it had the same blank canvas.

31 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Ha Ha.....a bit more developed than that now........but Pattaya had it's chance, it had the same blank canvas.

Nice!! yes Pattaya had many chances!!

"Why Thailand has attracted more foreign tourists than Vietnam"

 

it's obvious! nobody speaks thai in vietnam!

What Thailand has to offer is cheap tourist infrastructure, reasonable visa regime, cheap flights, travel hub both by air and land.

 

Thailand excels in availability and ease to set up short, medium term accomodation.

 

Thailand is warmer. Half of Vietnam weather not so pleasant in winter.

 

Friendly women with online network, agogo if that's what you are interested in, beer/hostess bars.

 

Hanoi is nothing much.

 

 

Vietnam I'd think is where you'll find good food and perhaps a bit of adventure. Thailand for cheap and chill holiday although Vietnam can move into this space quickly with the right attitude (long term visas, accomodation and floozies).

14 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

If I hated some place that badly , I would have left already.

Misery loves company.

Certainly applies in this crowd.

16 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

Are any Chinese languages taught in high school , and if so , do the results compare favourably with English language study.

I imagine those original chinese immigrants would have been Cantonese or Hokien speakers , would their descendants now learn English or Mandarin ?

There seems to be a compulsion on this forum to distort the context.

This was the point in question.

"Thailand does not want any involvement from foreign countries in the past, present, and future...."

Are you trying to make a point that Thailand has never had any involvement with China? 

As far as the language is concerned there is a historical reason why Chinese dialects are not widely spoken.

"The Primary Education Act of 1932 made the Thai language the compulsory medium of education, but, as a result of protests from the Chinese community, by 1939 students were allowed two hours of mandarin instruction per week. State corporations took over commodities such as rice, tobacco, and petroleum and Chinese businesses found themselves subject to a range of new taxes and controls."

https://www.mychinaroots.com/places/651547/thailand

 

A change in attitude towards the Chinese came about in 1975.

BTW my Thai niece speaks fluent Cantonese.

10 hours ago, BayArea said:

according to you which you have every right to believe, but trust me, there are plenty of expats who loved VN and have made it their home. 

l like Vietnam been many times over the decades ! it's more the monthly visa run inconvenience HCMC to Moc Bai once month really can't live anywhere else due to monthly visa l know many expats left Nha Trang same reason moved out of Vietnam " if 3 monthly no problems " Monthly Yes hassle & expensive for myself using visa run company evisa do the lot could save $20 if i lid online but one mistake and its a problem go byvisa run company approx cost = $127US Per month. Philippines = $30 per month renewal inside Philippines immigration so damn easy 1 Reason. No 2 reason  English 2nd language ! I wont ever be able to speak Vietnamese / l know bit of Thai still enough  get by coz married Thai 19years in the early 90s Rip .. would pick up again if in Thailand ! But it's there visa issue I don't like all red tape let alone putting up 800k baht in my tha bank prefer my money in Australia when i want transfer to myself in Philippines have tourist id card. ln Vietnam family member expat works here so transfers to im he give me dong back Vn has no red tape on visa entries nor does Cambodia you can get multiple 3x3 monthly visa Just Cambodia not for me. Philippines no issues at all with visa or pension rates based  Out of all 3 Countries ! l Decided rtn back Phili better for me that's all !! biggest bonus VISA'S renew up to 3 years 7000+ Islands.