Electric Bicycle Questions

[Barley]

Hello, 

I see more and more of these electric bicycles on the road in Chiang Mai. 

 

I would be interested in buying this model 

https://s.lazada.co.th/s.RrUNW

for myself but I am not certain if I need (and if I need - can I) register this electric bicycle and if I need to pay insurance and wear a helmet. 

 

My opinion is that I don't on all three counts, since this model has pedals, but I would like to hear your opinions. 

 

Also if anyone owns a similar or same model, I would like to know how you like it. 

 

Thanks a lot for your replies. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Barley
Added pic

[KhunLA]

Make sure you read the reviews, even though 4 & 5*, they point out some issues.

 

Won't be able to register it, and always wear a helmet when on 2 wheels, motorized or not.

 

Probably not a lithium battery, guessing 4/12v in series, and to be expected for the price, as a good battery cost more than 8k.  I'd pop into a local shop and sample something similar, for hands on.   If possible, rent one for the day, before springing 8k baht.

 

If something you plan and using and keeping for a while, then may want to just up your game to a real E-MB.  DECO start at 28,640 baht, with 3 yr warranty on battery, instead of replacing every 6-12 months.

https://decogreenenergy.com/index.php/th/

 

DISCLAIMER: I only wear helmet when on my E-MB, not when riding e-bike or pedal bike.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by KhunLA

[Shop mak]

Registration not required in Pattaya.

 

No insurance required.

 

Must wear a helmet!

 

Don't buy online. Quality is horrible. No service repair center. Seller might have few/no spare parts, my seller didn't, and zero service after I bought mine.

 

Find the nearest seller with a shop in your area, expect to pay 3-5 k more, but seller likely have spare parts, and longer guarantee. Motorcycle repair shops don't have any parts, not even tube or tyres in this tiny size!

 

Note: the low seat height, most lack adjustment, or just a few cm. Not comfortable for anything than in your area.

Batteries lasted only 4 months on mine. Replace all 4 batteries was 2,500+ so I sold mine (another brand). Had enough of bolts and screw fall off, rattling noise, soi dogs like to attack this silent vehicle that scares them.

 

Full battery max speed 40 km/h

75% battery max 35 km/h.

50% battery less than 30 km/h.

Fully loaded batteries last 40-50km.

Charge from 0-100% drain less than 1 unit of electricity, but takes all night.

You need electric outlet where you parking, few models are easy to remove all batteries, these models have batteries inside the seat.

 

Be aware: fire hazard, many reports in the news. Don't drive even in smallest pool of water, battery are in 'the floor' of the bike, just centimeters above ground.

 

Checklist:

'Build quality'

Seat height adjustment.

Easy removable battery.

Service center in your area.

Spare parts.

Warranty more than 3 months.

 

You get what you pay for, don't expect build quality at all.

Better quality models sells for 40,000 - 200,000+ baht.

 

Edit: my bike looked same the one you consider, just another brand.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Shop mak

[OneMoreFarang]

16 minutes ago, Shop mak said:

Be aware: fire hazard, many reports in the news. Don't drive even in smallest pool of water, battery are in 'the floor' of the bike, just centimeters above ground.

IMHO that is the biggest problem.

And it the batteries are lithium batteries there is also a risk when they are charged. And fire can't be extinguished easily. If they burn, they burn, and burn.

[Barley]

Yes, I also have thought about some of these concerns.

 

I looked for a model with a removable battery so that I can charge it in my apartment and not use my landlords electricity.

 

The model I am looking at uses lead batteries, the same technology that has been used in cars for decades. I think the news reports come mainly from electric scooters which probably use a different technology. 

 

On this picture one can recognize that the seat is adjustable but probably not by much. I plan to use it only in Chiang Mai, so almost all my trips will probably be 3-5 km, maximum rarely 10-15 km. 

 

I have difficulty believing that the local dealers have different models in the same class, because they all come from the same Chinese manufacturer and then are branded. The local sellers simply charge a lot more (50+%). The pictures I have seen from local shops on the web seem to confirm this. Of course one could expect that they give better warranty and have some parts, I agree.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Barley

[CartagenaWarlock]

My friend from Australia retrofitted his bicycle with a motor and it costed him around 30K to make it an ebike. He is very happy with that. Now he can roam all over pattaya in his bicycle. Was thinking to do it to my bicycle and ditch my old motorcycle instead of buying a new one. 

 

There may be more like this now. 

http://www.labicyclegroup.com/product-EN/2

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by CartagenaWarlock

[JimG]

Read "Shop max" comments and heed!  Buy from a local dealer that also services the bike.  I am from/in the USA and that same caution is true here.  The first bike I bought here was from the internet and when it had a problem, tough.  Nobody had parts or nobody could work on it.  The same thing must be true in Thailand. 

 

Trust me.  Been there, done that.

 

[Stevemercer]

I agree with the above posts. You can buy the bike advertised as a way of dipping your toe in the market. The cheap battery will only be good for 5 - 10 km range and will die within 6 months.

 

After that, you can decide if you want to spend the money to get a decent scooter of that style that will last.

 

A decent battery powered bike of that type will start at 20,000 Baht, but a good one will be 30,000 Baht. This will have a range of 40 - 50 km and the battery should last for years. The battery will weigh up to 10 kg and be removable. The supplied charger and electronics will have cut-offs etc. to avid overcharging. The risk of fire is minimal.

 

I have had a King Song electric wheel for 8 years and the battery is still going strong (range of 75 km and speed up to 40 km/hr) after some 8000 km.

[Shop mak]

Alternative for 12-20k:

 

 

Better driving position for a man, better build quality, and most important easily removeable battery.

 

Alternative 40k up:

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

9 hours ago, Barley said:

Yes, I also have thought about some of these concerns.

 

I looked for a model with a removable battery so that I can charge it in my apartment and not use my landlords electricity.

 

The model I am looking at uses lead batteries, the same technology that has been used in cars for decades. I think the news reports come mainly from electric scooters which probably use a different technology. 

 

On this picture one can recognize that the seat is adjustable but probably not by much. I plan to use it only in Chiang Mai, so almost all my trips will probably be 3-5 km, maximum rarely 10-15 km. 

 

I have difficulty believing that the local dealers have different models in the same class, because they all come from the same Chinese manufacturer and then are branded. The local sellers simply charge a lot more (50+%). The pictures I have seen from local shops on the web seem to confirm this. Of course one could expect that they give better warranty and have some parts, I agree.

Spend the extra baht, and get a lithium battery, you won't be disappointed, as Shop Mak states, the batteries are krap, and will need constant replacing.

 

Check out EM bikes @ HomePro, or just get a DECO E-MB and enjoy the govt incentives.

 

 

Or the offerings from BkkBike:

https://www.bkkebike.com/e-bike-thailand

 

Or if you have a pedal bike, you could convert yours, as I did my Schwinn:

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by KhunLA

[BritManToo]

cheap one looks fine to me!

This link for @OneMoreFarang only .............

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1376508386439936/?s=fb_shorts_tab&stack_idx=0

Edited March 6, 2023 by BritManToo

[OneMoreFarang]

A general question, maybe it was discussed already: Did anybody ever try an emergency brake with one of those things? Somehow they don't look like they are built for that.

[Shop mak]

The brakes was acceptable only the first month. After that semi monthly adjustment was needed. Defensive driving is a must, even top speed at best is only 40 km. 

I sold mine after 4 months only. Wouldn't buy any of these cheapest models again.

[Will B Good]

Not an expert, but read somewhere it must have pedals.....even if they are totally ineffective.....otherwise it could be classed as a motorbike.

[Will B Good]

3 hours ago, Shop mak said:

Alternative for 12-20k:

 

 

Better driving position for a man, better build quality, and most important easily removeable battery.

 

Alternative 40k up:

 

 

 

Very tempted to go down this avenue.....if I thought my longevity was not going to be severely curtailed.

[papa al]

Just be sure not to re-charge at a common condo receptacle..

[FriendlyFarang]

15 hours ago, Barley said:

for myself but I am not certain if I need (and if I need - can I) register this electric bicycle and if I need to pay insurance and wear a helmet. 

 

My opinion is that I don't on all three counts, since this model has pedals, but I would like to hear your opinions. 

It doesn't matter if it has pedals or not. It has two wheels and a motor, making it a motorbike by law, requiring registration, tax, insurance, helmet, etc.

You can't register or buy tax or insurance for them, so they are illegal to use on public roads.

 

If police cares is of course a different matter.

But if you should ever be involved in an accident, you can be certain that you are blamed, because you are riding an illegal vehicle, and no insurance will cover you.

[Barley]

@FriendlyFarang

Could you please give a valid and verifiable source for your statement? 

[KhunLA]

20 minutes ago, Barley said:

@FriendlyFarang

Could you please give a valid and verifiable source for your statement? 

Been discussed many times, been linked many times, if it's got a motor,and it's got two or three wheels, it's a motorcycle, no if ands or buts.

Edited March 6, 2023 by KhunLA

[Eleftheros]

If you buy a custom e-bike that looks like a scooter, then it's possible you will attract attention from some snoopopathic meddlers in the police force who start going on about helmets and insurance and so on.

 

If you buy an e-bike kit and install it onto your existing frame, so that it still looks like a bicycle, then the chance that anyone will even notice that you have a motor-assisted vehicle are minimal.

 

Well, that's what I did, and as of today I have put 9,214km on the clock in two years' of riding in eastern Thailand, and not a single comment or question about what I am doing.

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

If you buy a custom e-bike that looks like a scooter, then it's possible you will attract attention from some snoopopathic meddlers in the police force who start going on about helmets and insurance and so on.

 

If you buy an e-bike kit and install it onto your existing frame, so that it still looks like a bicycle, then the chance that anyone will even notice that you have a motor-assisted vehicle are minimal.

 

Well, that's what I did, and as of today I have put 9,214km on the clock in two years' of riding in eastern Thailand, and not a single comment or question about what I am doing.

I did the same and usually keep it around 25 km per hour, even though it will do 40 easily.   This way I attract less attention.

 

Plus the brakes and suspension isn't exactly designed for 40 km an hour.

Edited March 6, 2023 by KhunLA

[Cricky]

21 hours ago, Barley said:

but I would like to hear your opinions. 

Might be nice around the BBQ, cook some sausages on.

 

https://m.facebook.com/reel/871306170642675/

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Cricky

[3NUMBAS]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

A general question, maybe it was discussed already: Did anybody ever try an emergency brake with one of those things? Somehow they don't look like they are built for that.

when you stop pedalling  it slows down anyway as the controler senses the breaks are on and shuts down the power

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, Cricky said:

Might be nice around the BBQ cook some sausages on.

 

https://www.facebook.com/reel/871306170642675?s=yWDuG2&fs=e&mibextid=Nif5oz

 

So, you plan on trolling all the EV threads like all the other i____s.

[Cricky]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

So, you plan on trolling all the EV threads like all the other i____s.

Geeze, you're a real stick in the mud.

 

Just adding some humour.

 

You EV scooter guys are always cranky.

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Cricky

[Baht Simpson]

I was looking at a three-wheeler but it's only 450w with a Lead-acid battery 48V 15Ah. It seems underpowered. Would I need something like 600w as there's some sharp gradients here?

[Eleftheros]

1 hour ago, Baht Simpson said:

I was looking at a three-wheeler but it's only 450w with a Lead-acid battery 48V 15Ah. It seems underpowered. Would I need something like 600w as there's some sharp gradients here?

Watts is not as important as torque for getting up hills - though they are related to some extent.

 

There are  so many variables. Is the motor is a hub motor (which is normal for a 3-wheeler) or a mid-drive? Hub drives usually have better torque, but are not as efficient in terms of battery use as a mid-drive. What is the weight of the thing, is it throttle only or pedal-assisted, how many gears and so on.

 

The key thing to bear in mind is what sort of cycling you want to do. Commuting on good roads at reasonable speed carrying some goods without too much effort is very different from cycling as power-assisted exercise on varied surfaces.

 

And surely they could supply an Li-I or Li-P battery with the same capacity but much lighter.

[Baht Simpson]

49 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Watts is not as important as torque for getting up hills - though they are related to some extent.

 

There are  so many variables. Is the motor is a hub motor (which is normal for a 3-wheeler) or a mid-drive? Hub drives usually have better torque, but are not as efficient in terms of battery use as a mid-drive. What is the weight of the thing, is it throttle only or pedal-assisted, how many gears and so on.

 

The key thing to bear in mind is what sort of cycling you want to do. Commuting on good roads at reasonable speed carrying some goods without too much effort is very different from cycling as power-assisted exercise on varied surfaces.

 

And surely they could supply an Li-I or Li-P battery with the same capacity but much lighter.

It's this one.  https://www.homepro.co.th/p/1219485

 

I only need it for poodling around the village: I wont be going out on the main road.  I have no idea how you gauge the torque. The roads aren't great but manageable.  My only concern is a couple of inclines, one fairly steep.

[FriendlyFarang]

4 hours ago, Barley said:

@FriendlyFarang

Could you please give a valid and verifiable source for your statement? 

"Definition: A motorcycle is a vehicle with two tires or less, which is powered with an internal combustion engine or an electric motor. In case it accompanies a sidecar, it may have one more wheel."

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Baht Simpson said:

It's this one.  https://www.homepro.co.th/p/1219485

 

I only need it for poodling around the village: I wont be going out on the main road.  I have no idea how you gauge the torque. The roads aren't great but manageable.  My only concern is a couple of inclines, one fairly steep.

23.9k for that, would be a terrible value, and with lead acid battery ????

 

Spring 5k more and get a real E-Motorcycle, 1000w motor/63v20Ah lithium battery.