Wise or swift

[billd766]

My pensions are normally in and out within 24 hours, unless it is a Friday or a Thai bank holiday.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

It is possible. I pay a regular Wise Direct Debit to a UK Credit Card company.

Ah a direct debit of course. Thanks for that tip. 

[CartagenaWarlock]

11 hours ago, Harveyboy said:

I've been told that Wise is also not classed as a bank .is that correct 

Wise is not a bank. As they don't lend money, they don't have to insure your deposit and their is no risk of any bank run. However, If they go belly up, you could lose all your money in their custody. In the US, they are only a money transfer entity. 

[lopburi3]

10 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

In the US, they are only a money transfer entity. 

Not sure what you mean by that as in USA they have normal ACH bank account numbers/bank routing available for depositing/holding money.

[Harveyboy]

16 hours ago, phetphet said:

If you have told Barclays that you no longer live in the UK, or that you no longer have a UK address, that is where your problem started.

if you have family or a trusted friend that will allow you to use their address, you may be able to open a new account with another bank. Although it depends on  what proof of address documents they ask for.

 

Another alternative might be (if you do have a UK address that you can use), is to just go into your local bank branch and change your current registered address to that one. Take ID and they might not ask for proof of address that way.

Just a suggestion.

Haven't had address in UK for over 30 years. ..but it had never been a problem they posted my  card here also pinsetry machines to access my account in our telephone conversation they said  Brexit the problem

 

13 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

It is not a traditional bank offering loans and such but they do offer accounts in various currencies that they hold in actual banks.  So you can pay a pension or make deposits to such an account and use when you want to fund transfers.  But this is without the government bank guarantees you normally have with an actual bank.

I already have wise account sterling and euro I have 1 small pension paid. Each month

[Harveyboy]

17 hours ago, phetphet said:

If you have told Barclays that you no longer live in the UK, or that you no longer have a UK address, that is where your problem started.

if you have family or a trusted friend that will allow you to use their address, you may be able to open a new account with another bank. Although it depends on  what proof of address documents they ask for.

 

Another alternative might be (if you do have a UK address that you can use), is to just go into your local bank branch and change your current registered address to that one. Take ID and they might not ask for proof of address that way.

Just a suggestion.

Haven't been to UK in 20 years don't expect to ever again..who would eh..tks for the reply H

[Harveyboy]

On 3/11/2023 at 11:10 AM, MJCM said:

AFAIK SWIFT is not a bank, it’s used by banks to send money so it’s a so called network for banks

https://www.swift.com

Swift is a global member-owned cooperative and the world’s leading provider of secure financial messaging services.

 

 

 

????????

Tks .mate..

[CartagenaWarlock]

9 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Not sure what you mean by that as in USA they have normal ACH bank account numbers/bank routing available for depositing/holding money.

They can't lend money. So they don't have to be FDIC insured. Now many and more FinTech companies have sprung up and they do offer routing/account number. If a bank does not lend money, their deposit are not FDIC insured. If they want FDIC insured, they have to keep their money in a custodial bank and have to tell customers details of that custodial bank. 

[lopburi3]

15 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

They can't lend money. So they don't have to be FDIC insured

True enough and they clearly state that.  But perhaps that is an advantage in current bank failure times (Silvergate Bank and Silicon Valley Bank in last 3 days).  Obviously you would not want to keep retirement funds uninsured but for normal transfers/holding for pension deposits and such can see a use for - and makes them more than just a normal money transfer service.

[sandyf]

On 3/11/2023 at 11:25 AM, Timbob said:

but much better than when I used to send money via HSBC (and a lot cheaper!).

Must have been a very long time ago, over 10 years ago when HSBC reduced their overseas transaction fee to  £4, raised to  £5 last year.

[sandyf]

On 3/12/2023 at 9:07 PM, CartagenaWarlock said:

Wise is not a bank. As they don't lend money, they don't have to insure your deposit and their is no risk of any bank run. However, If they go belly up, you could lose all your money in their custody. In the US, they are only a money transfer entity. 

For our customers sending money with Wise or holding money in the Wise account in the US, in keeping with US state obligations, we protect our customers’ funds in a mix of cash in leading commercial banks and investments in secure liquid assets, primarily government bonds. We also keep your money separate from the money we use to run our business.

 

If you’ve opted-in to earn interest on your Wise account, you're able to take advantage of FDIC passthrough insurance on your USD balance up to 250,000 USD.

https://wise.com/help/articles/5toCJQjm9MkTs8bEKSm30O/how-our-us-entity-wise-us-inc-safeguards-customer-funds

[sandyf]

On 3/11/2023 at 11:10 AM, MJCM said:

AFAIK SWIFT is not a bank, it’s used by banks to send money so it’s a so called network for banks

https://www.swift.com

Swift is a global member-owned cooperative and the world’s leading provider of secure financial messaging services.

 

 

 

????????

Swift is one of the 2 main interbank messaging services.

Payments from Wise UK to places like the US and Thailand would use the SWIFT protocol with 11 character code and payments from Wise UK to Europe and Middle East would use the IBAN protocol with a 16 character code.

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Swift is one of the 2 main interbank messaging services.

Payments from Wise UK to places like the US and Thailand would use the SWIFT protocol with 11 character code and payments from Wise UK to Europe and Middle East would use the IBAN protocol with a 16 character code.

Wise use accounts in destination countries for local  payments to customers. 

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

They can't lend money. So they don't have to be FDIC insured.

That is not quite true.

Wise offer interest bearing accounts and those are covered in the same way as any other bank.

Non interest bearing accounts have an alternative safeguarding arrangement.

[sandyf]

2 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Wise use accounts in destination countries for local  payments to customers. 

Wise funds are only held in 3 financial jurisdictions.

Wise Payments Ltd

Wise US Inc

Wise Europe SA

 

[lopburi3]

13 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Wise funds are only held in 3 financial jurisdictions.

Wise Payments Ltd

Wise US Inc

Wise Europe SA

 

They have bank accounts in all destination countries for payments AFAIK.  It is like the old Chinese shophouse system with local cash being used for payments so no need to transfer funds (other than resupply local accounts if not enough funds from those depositing locally for payments in other countries).

[Timbob]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Must have been a very long time ago, over 10 years ago when HSBC reduced their overseas transaction fee to  £4, raised to  £5 last year.

I think you've misread my post, unless you're suggesting HSBC is in fact cheaper than Wise. I remember paying  £4 as a fee with HSBC, but the fee isn't the issue. It's the markup they put on currency conversion, hence why I said Wise is a lot cheaper.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

They have bank accounts in all destination countries for payments AFAIK. 

How do you think those accounts get funded?

It would be either SWIFT or IBAN. 

 

 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, Timbob said:

I think you've misread my post, unless you're suggesting HSBC is in fact cheaper than Wise. I remember paying  £4 as a fee with HSBC, but the fee isn't the issue. It's the markup they put on currency conversion, hence why I said Wise is a lot cheaper.

What markup?

There  is no markup unless you choose to  have one. I have been transferring from HSBC for over a decade and when Wise came on the scene I cross checked every transaction I made for several months and there was next to no difference.

If you want to buy THB from a  UK bank and then transfer it you are asking to be ripped off.

[n00dle]

On 3/11/2023 at 11:10 AM, MJCM said:

AFAIK SWIFT is not a bank, it’s used by banks to send money so it’s a so called network for banks

https://www.swift.com

Swift is a global member-owned cooperative and the world’s leading provider of secure financial messaging services.

 

 

 

????????

Correct, neither Wise nor Swift are banks.

 

Swift is simply a transfer protocol. Wise will let you hold money on account, but because it is not a bank that is not recommended for larger sums or a long amount of time.  

 

If Wise has any reason to question the validity or legality of your account you could find your funds frozen.

You can use either Swift or Wise to transfer your funds to a new account safely, though with much larger transfers, I would suggest you approach Wise customer service to confirm the transfer is copasetic before you pull the trigger. 

Also depending on the size of the transfer, Swift may be the better policy due to its fixed rate nature. Wise is very reasonable for smaller regular transfers, but could get expensive if sending a few hundred K. 

[lopburi3]

40 minutes ago, sandyf said:

How do you think those accounts get funded?

It would be either SWIFT or IBAN. 

 

 

The get primary funding by those making transfers - just like the Chinese system.  You give money in country x and a person in country z pays.  Only when extra funds are needed would SWIFT or IBAN be required (never to customer - only to in country Wise accounts).

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

It is like the old Chinese shophouse system with local cash being used for payments so no need to transfer funds (other than resupply local accounts if not enough funds from those depositing locally for payments in other countries).

There seems to be some confusion over how things work work with Wise and I do not know all the answers,  I can only go on what I can see and read.

I have a Wise Thai baht account and I have no account details and there is no option to get account details which means the account cannot be credited either domestically or internationally. It can only be credited by conversion within my own account.

There seems to be an opinion that when someone makes a payment into a Thai account the funds come from an account in Thailand but I cannot see how that would work as the only have financial protection in 3 jurisdictions. When Wise makes a Swift transfer to Thailand they may well use an intermediary bank but that is not the same as local funding.

I also have a Turkish Lira account and for that I have domestic account details but no international details, in other words payments can be made to the account from  within Turkey but not from outside. Domestically it is an IBAN account number.

[Stocky]

56 minutes ago, sandyf said:

How do you think those accounts get funded?

It would be either SWIFT or IBAN. 

 

Wise is P2P - money in one country is matched with money at a partner bank in the corresponding country. Wise use Kasikorn, Bangkok Bank and Dee Money as partners in Thailand. So transferring money from the UK to Thailand the money never leaves the UK, the sum is simply matched with one of their partners who need GBP, the partner bank makes the payment in Thailand with the money they want transferred to the UK, Wise make the payments the partner banks wants made in the UK.

 

I works in exactly the same way for transfers to any other country.

 

P2P bypasses the need to make international transfers with SWIFT or IBAN.

 

.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Stocky

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There seems to be some confusion over how things work work with Wise and I do not know all the answers, 

Agree Thailand is an exception for Wise as they do not yet have transfer out ability (authorization) so standing accounts here have to have external funds to pay.  Most countries the bulk of payments would be made using local received funds as they operate both ways.  They do have an agreement with a firm allowed transfers out (Dee) so may be using that source for some local funds (am sure they are as payments are sometimes shown as from them).

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, Stocky said:

Wise is P2P - money in one country is matched with money at a partner bank in the corresponding country. Wise use Kasikorn, Bangkok Bank and Dee Money as partners in Thailand. So transferring money from the UK to Thailand the money never leaves the UK, the sum is simply matched with one of their partners who need GBP, the partner bank makes the payment in Thailand with the money they want transferred to the UK, Wise make the payments the partner banks wants made in the UK. 

Thanks. That is a fairly plausible explanation and as I suspected payments are not coming from  a Wise account in Thailand.

This would also explain to a great extent why the variation in transaction time, unlike a fixed account scenario, not all going to happen at the same time every time.

When I transfer from UK to Europe,  instantaneous every time, that is Wise to Wise.

[Stocky]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

When I transfer from UK to Europe,  instantaneous every time, that is Wise to Wise.

Yes, Wise acts as it's own partner bank.

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, Stocky said:

Yes, Wise acts as it's own partner bank.

Just paid a company in Canada from my UK account and was told the company would be paid in 9 hours.

The company wanted paying in USD as opposed to CAD so I am assuming the US Wise facility will come into play.

[Timbob]

On 3/14/2023 at 3:17 PM, sandyf said:

What markup?

There  is no markup unless you choose to  have one. I have been transferring from HSBC for over a decade and when Wise came on the scene I cross checked every transaction I made for several months and there was next to no difference.

If you want to buy THB from a  UK bank and then transfer it you are asking to be ripped off.

That's not my experience but I take your word for it. I don't have time to cross check every transaction.

 

When I used HSBC I sent in GBP to not get ripped off. But this means you never know exactly how much THB you're going to get until it arrives. With WISE I can send the exact amount I want, which suits me much better. So even if it's not much cheaper, it's certainly more convenient. 

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, Timbob said:

That's not my experience but I take your word for it. I don't have time to cross check every transaction.

 

When I used HSBC I sent in GBP to not get ripped off. But this means you never know exactly how much THB you're going to get until it arrives. With WISE I can send the exact amount I want, which suits me much better. So even if it's not much cheaper, it's certainly more convenient. 

I use Wise quite a lot but not for money to Thailand. I don't see the point in moving the money to Wise and then moving it to Thailand when I can do it in one move from HSBC to Thailand at the same cost.

The real benefit of Wise is international purchases and travelling. I was in Laos a few weeks ago and paid the hotel with USD I had on my Wise card. That is convenience, I have had UK cards blocked in the past for not telling them I was in a foreign country, also avoids the non sterling currency surcharge.

Each to their own.

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

I use Wise quite a lot but not for money to Thailand. I don't see the point in moving the money to Wise and then moving it to Thailand when I can do it in one move from HSBC to Thailand at the same cost.

The real benefit of Wise is international purchases and travelling. I was in Laos a few weeks ago and paid the hotel with USD I had on my Wise card. That is convenience, I have had UK cards blocked in the past for not telling them I was in a foreign country, also avoids the non sterling currency surcharge.

Each to their own.

 

The 'cost' is less with Wise.

 

As I have said before, I don't pay fees with HSBC but I receive more Baht every month by going HSBC to Wise to KBank. The gap has narrowed in recent times though.

 

@sandyf ...... you may be interested in the new HSBC Global Money Debit Card ....sounds similar to the Wise card.