Rule on running engine while refueling

[brianthainess]

22 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

Must admit I was surprised when a taxi driver told me to exit his vehicle whilst it was being refulled.

I suspect the taxi runs on LPG or CNG gas, I've seen mini buses here that make all passengers get out (i was going to say alight but resisted the pun) while re-fueling. 

[brianthainess]

They also continue to serve while the Tankers are filling up the storage tanks, in the UK they used to   close the pumps/forecourt 'till done. 

[Liverpool Lou]

12 hours ago, itsari said:

14 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Of course, there's a chance...but it has never happened causing an explosion at a filling station so the chance is not even worth considering!

Never happened ? You are such a wonderful individual with such wisdom.

I'm happy to be corrected if you have something that conclusively contradicts my comment, something that has been investigated and proven.   The humble pie is in the fridge as I type this.

[itsari]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I'm happy to be corrected if you have something that conclusively contradicts my comment, something that has been investigated and proven.   The humble pie is in the fridge as I type this.

You are welcome to search .

The point is it is a accepted practice around the world to turn the engine of when refueling the tank .

[KhunLA]

Since we rarely got out of the car when refueling, didn't realize there were that many inconsiderate people in the world ... silly me.  They put the placard on your car, asking you to turn off ... nuff said

 

I worked at gas station as a teen, bad enough you have to huff the petrol fumes, let alone the exhaust from cars.

 

Really does make me wonder how some folks see themselves, when they interact with people every day.  Are they really that consciously inconsiderate or just haven't a clue just how inconsiderate they are.

Edited March 13, 2023 by KhunLA

[Liverpool Lou]

11 hours ago, still kicking said:

Mobile phones at petrol stations: are they dangerous?

• Mobile phones are potentially hazardous when used on a service station driveway.
• Dropping a mobile phone or switching it on and off can cause sparks, which may ignite petrol vapours.
• Using a mobile while refuelling can cause a lapse in concentration. This could result in the incorrect fuelling of your vehicle, fuel spills and a lack of precaution with driveway traffic.

• The first point is an opinion not backed up with any specific evidence so it is pointless.  A banana skin is just as "potentially dangerous" on a petrol station driveway!
• The second point is just plain wrong, mobile phones do not emit sparks and dropping a phone is no more likely to cause sparks than dropping a set of keys or a coin, i.e. the chances are negligible.
• The third point is completely irrelevant to the questions that are being discussed i.e. explosions caused by engines running or phones being used.

[Liverpool Lou]

5 minutes ago, itsari said:

12 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I'm happy to be corrected if you have something that conclusively contradicts my comment, something that has been investigated and proven.   The humble pie is in the fridge as I type this.

You are welcome to search .

I know I am, obviously, I do not need your agreement to do anything.

 

The onus is not on me to search for situations that do not occur, but, regardless, I have searched and there are no proven circumstances.   You're the one claiming these things happen so you produce the conclusive results of your search!

Edited March 13, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[VocalNeal]

Many cars have the filler cap release inside the car. If having the engine running while refuelling is a problem then auto manufacturers would have an interlock so you cannot open the fuel filler if the engine is running. (in a similar way that a motorcycle will stop if you lower the sidestand)

This is not implemented maybe because the vast majority of drivers in the world refuel their own vehicle, so they get out of the car and don't leave the engine running. 

[itsari]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I know I am, obviously, I do not need your agreement to do anything.

 

The onus is not on me to search for situations that do not occur, but, regardless, I have searched.   You're the one claiming these things happen so you produce the results of your search!

I do not need to follow your advise sir.

And I agree you most certainly do not need my approval for anything.

[actonion]

Just like my Mrs too lazy to get out of the car, handing over the money for the  fuel through  a  1 inch  open window , too lazy to check   she has bought the correct amount of fuel  that she's paid for

[dingdongrb]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

They put the placard on your car, asking you to turn off ... nuff said

 

I worked at gas station as a teen, bad enough you have to huff the petrol fumes, let alone the exhaust from cars.

I ask them politely not to place that damn placard on my car's hood as I would like to keep my 1.2m THB auto scratch free for as long as possible.

 

I worked as a 'pump jockey' back the days when there was no 'self-service' and before unleaded gasoline was introduced. There were as many as 12 gasoline pumps which were always very busy (interstate location), but the location was outside with open air so the fumes weren't all so bad. I am sure my numerous bong hits throughout the years did more lung damage than working for a few years at a gas station.

 

I realize that diesel fuel isn't ignited easily like gasoline but having worked at a couple Truck Stops I saw truckers leaving their trucks always running. Talk about exhaust fumes.....

[richard_smith237]

14 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Of course, there's a chance...but it has never happened causing an explosion at a filling station so the chance is not even worth considering!

It would appear that industry world wide disagrees with you and the ‘chance’ is worth considering.... Hence the policy at filling stations world wide that phones are not used while filling the car and the engine is turned off. 

 

It seems you are suggesting that such policies are wrong and you in fact know better than the energy companies and industries in which there is a risk of a potentially explosive environment.

 

 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, dingdongrb said:

but the location was outside with open air so the fumes weren't all so bad.

And people go to CM and say they didn't notice any smog ...

... also didn't notice any hills in the distance ????

 

So you are one of those ... nuff said

[Ralf001]

23 hours ago, itsari said:

The car I saw with the engine running was a brand new Fortuna with the heavy tinted windows and can only assume they want to have the air conditioning running . I know it is a small risk that a explosion could happen , but a small risk it is and it would not be just the occupants of the car that would suffer . Totally selfish in my opinion

Given the Fortuner is only sold with a diesel engine the chance of explosion is reduced from a small risk to zero risk.

[richard_smith237]

14 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

14 hours ago, itsari said:

Wrong again sir , phones are banned in service stations.

What are you on?

No, there's no law about it, they are not "banned".   If they were banned this debate would not be able to exist!   What are you on?

Typical ‘LL’ arguing in the innate intricacies of a discussion... Phones ARE banned while filling up at petrol stations world wide.... You know exactly what is meant by that.

 

They are banned by the companies that own the filling stations 

 

 

[dingdongrb]

15 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

This is not implemented maybe because the vast majority of drivers in the world refuel their own vehicle, so they get out of the car and don't leave the engine running. 

Coming from a cold and snowy region I remember we used to leave our vehicles always running in the Winter time as we sprinted into the convenience store for a coffee, soda, smokes, or whatever. Many would leave their vehicle running as they refueled as well as running inside to pay the cashier.

 

Well needless to say that all started coming to an end when many unattended running vehicles started to get stolen. Matter of fact they introduced an ordinance that could fine a person if a vehicle was left running unattended, even for a few minutes. Of course there was no violation if there was a remote starter system installed or other security measures were taken.

[dingdongrb]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

And people go to CM and say they didn't notice any smog ...

... also didn't notice any hills in the distance ????

 

So you are one of those ... nuff said

'No smog here' - Says the tourist from Delhi.

 

'They call those mountains?' - Say the tourist from Innsbruk

 

Everything in life has it's relevancy. 

 

As a youth back then with good health, the fumes were not noticeable enough to make me complain and remember. Yes, I am one of them......  ????

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

How many people have actually seen a fire at a gas station? I never have. 

 

How many people have actually seen a phone catch fire? I never have. 

Neither have I... but it is indisputable that the Lithium-Ion batteries in Phone have combusted - there is enough evidence of that.

 

It is also indisputable that phones are not intrinsically safe because there is a risk of incendive sparking and in the right conditions (perfect storm) could cause ignition - the risk is not zero. 

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I have seen bed fire, chemical fire, kitchen fires, garbage fires, tire fires, car fires, boat fire, electoral fire. 

You've seen fires caused by voting?...   Anything with a battery can cause a fire unless it is intrinsically safe.

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

So is the thinking that my car will be filled with gas fumes (without me noticing) at the precise moment my mobile phone decides to explode? 

No, thats not the thinking at all - you’ve just highlighted your own misunderstanding with a little ‘gaslighting’... 

 

The thinking is: While filling up your car with petrol fumes are released close by to the nozzle, IF you are using your phone at the same time as filling the car, under perfect conditions for a very brief interval of time until the fumes dissipate there is a risk of ignition.

 

You have also failed to understand that ‘disasters and tragedies' world wide have occurred due to ‘perfect timing’ (the perfect storm)...  i.e. something happened / was trigged at a precise moment for the briefest of times the perfect situation occurs. 

 

Because something has not happened, it does not mean it ‘can-not’ happen. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[itsari]

13 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Given the Fortuner is only sold with a diesel engine the chance of explosion is reduced from a small risk to zero risk.

Diesel vapour can ignite yet needs a much higher temperature.

So yes it is safer , but it would not be practical to have a rule for petrol engines and a separate rule for diesels .

Don't forget all the exhaust fumes employees must endure for the dear Fortuna owner to keep cool .

[Ralf001]

Just now, itsari said:

Diesel vapour can ignite yet needs a much higher temperature.

So yes it is safer , but it would not be practical to have a rule for petrol engines and a separate rule for diesels .

Don't forget all the exhaust fumes employees must endure for the dear Fortuna owner to keep cool .

It aint ever going to explode.  END OFF.

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Ralf001 said:

It aint ever going to explode.  END OFF.

End off !!!... Love it !!...  someone else who seems not to understand the potential, no matter how small and believes they are the ultimate authority on this subject and industry world wide is incorrect....   rather arrogant of you Ralf !!!

 

 

[itsari]

1 minute ago, Ralf001 said:

It aint ever going to explode.  END OFF.

Turn off the engine . END OFF

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

It aint ever going to explode.  END OFF.

Only if you are referring to diesel.... 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

I think that the reason why gas stations ask that mobile phones not be used is to help avoid a situation in which distracted motorists drive away with the filler hose still in the car and causing a spill or worse. This is a more likely scenario than a phone igniting fuel vapors. Switching off the engine would also probably help prevent someone accidentally leaving the car in gear and hitting the accelerator by mistake while fueling.

 

Also, in an effort to avoid legal liability, the gas station will be told to make these requests so that any incident, whether directly related or not, could potentially be blamed on a non-compliant customer.

[Ralf001]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

End off !!!... Love it !!...  someone else who seems not to understand the potential, no matter how small and believes they are the ultimate authority on this subject and industry world wide is incorrect....   rather arrogant of you Ralf !!!

 

 

Show me one instance of a diesel fuel explosion in an open air environment that was the result of a spark ignite vapour.

[Ralf001]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Only if you are referring to diesel.... 

if you bother reading the thread you will know what fuel type I was referring to.

[Ralf001]

10 minutes ago, itsari said:

Turn off the engine . END OFF

Why ?

[richard_smith237]

I want to put some perspective on this...

 

No matter how small the risk, there is a risk that

a) Under perfect conditions, leaving your vehicle running while filling with petrol / gas can cause fumes to ignite.

b)  Under perfect conditions, using a cell phone while filling with petrol / gas can cause fumes to ignite.

 

This risk is extremely small to the point of being insignificant, but why allow that risk when the inconvenience of preventative measures is also insignificant ??

 

There is also risk when re-starting the car, but you can’t ‘not restart your car’ so that ‘IF the risk was so high we wouldn’t be allowed to drive into the forecourt’ is ridiculous. 

 

I’ll add that there is also a risk from wearing clothing which causes static... (perhaps boomers in nylon trousers should be banned).... Anyone ever taken off a tope made of synthetic materials in pitch black and seen the sparks and heard the crackle ? - before anyone jumps on this, it would of-course be ridiculous to suggest what people wear at filling stations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

41 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

It seems you are suggesting that such policies are wrong

 I didn't say that, I am doubting the rationale of the reasons, though.  If anyone has any conclusively proven evidence to the contrary, I'm more than happy to get stuck into my humble pie!

[itsari]

2 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Why ?

It is the rule to obey when refueling