Fires burning in neighboring countries blamed for Chiang Mai woes - most polluted city in the World

[JCauto]

23 minutes ago, Albaby said:

In Oz we haven't burnt our farm,and it's big, for 20 years.

Yeah, and you and your family with their large farm, machinery, well-trained staff, International-standard education, farm inputs, consulting companies, GMO seeds etc. are pretty much the same as a subsistence Hmong family with 6 kids scraping a living off of their 1-2 hectare plot with 30 degree slope several kilometers from the nearest road and 50cc Chinese motorcycle.

[JCauto]

2 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

They haven't had any new ideas in hundreds of years? Figure it out. No more excuses from these people for polluting the entire region of SE Asia.

See? It's just SO DAMN EASY! I reckon a genius like yourself could probably sort it in a couple of months, no? 

It's all of us lazy bludgers in the development aid game who have been wandering around upland Southeast Asia aimlessly for decades that just haven't got the slightest idea about how to solve this despite our language skills, advanced degrees, experience and advanced technological tools. We've been just passing time waiting for some retired fellows like yourself to show up and let us know which way the wind blows because it's all Greek to us!

Stop wasting time prattling with a useless waster like myself who's clearly been scamming a living for the last 35 years or so in the development aid game trying to find a way to improve these intractable complex issues and go out and fix it like you said. Piece of cake!

[BobfromNYC]

Same dumb converstation every year for the eleven years I've lived here. And I'm done, as much as I'd like to stay, I'm being smoked out.

[BobfromNYC]

7 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Each and every country in S.E.A. takes its turn at being the worst. But more importantly, none of them do anything about it.

[Reigntax]

Whereas they should be blaming the inherit ignorance and inability to realise the results of there actions.

That probably applies to smoke, road accidents, education… or just about every part of their existence.

[malibukid]

8 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

But quite true in this case.

Laos, Myanmar and Cambodia are virtually big fireplaces.

CM approx. at the center of this map:

tell the surrounding countries to clean up their act or send bombers with fire retardant their way.  declare environmental warfare on those offending countries.  TAT come to Chiang Mai and die early.

[malibukid]

7 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

It's raining in Chiang Mai today so the air quality will be fresh and crystal clear from tomorrow....

light rain only.  it would take several days of heavy rain to clean out the air

[JCauto]

34 minutes ago, Reigntax said:

Whereas they should be blaming the inherit ignorance and inability to realise the results of there actions.

That probably applies to smoke, road accidents, education… or just about every part of their existence.

It is practically a law that whenever someone wishes to pontificate about other people's lack of education and ignorance, they will inevitably include a spelling or grammatical error. You are to be commended for both "inherit ignorance" (I believe you meant 'inherent') and "there actions" (interestingly, you managed to get the proper form of "their" correct in the last sentence). So tidy up that language for a start and then let's hear you give your list of how to fix Thailand overnight when you can't even write in your own language.

[still kicking]

8 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

But the problem is: 1) Same place 2) Same time of the year 3) Every year.  So the neighboring countries have the fires every year at the same time?  This is year the blame can be deflected to it's neighbors.  What or who gets the blame next year?  

Australia 

[Gknrd]

Can't be true, I don't believe it. I just watched several YouTube channels that claim CM is the best retirement and travel destination in the universe.  Who do I believe?

[mrfill]

Perhaps these very poor countries don't have the machinery to plough back, after all, the total wealth of all 3 countries combined is barely a fifth of Thailand. The small farmers have little choice.

Added to that there will be an element of burning for illegal purposes (logging, clearing etc) in all 4 countries and Thailand cannot be expected to clear up illegal activity in its neighbours but it could use its wealth to donate ploughing machinery to its neighbours rather than buying military hardware and then complaining they have smoke in their eyes.

But that won't happen....

[bangon04]

"Chiang Mai was the most polluted city in the world yesterday"

 

so "To Be Number One" is not just a publicity stunt by influencers......

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, tonypattaya said:

Can you please tell us how to clean up the air in Chang Mai. I would like to know and I promise to send on your recommendations.
BTW this discussion is about the air quality in Chang Mai!

There are alot of potential solutions. Doing nothing is the worst possible scenario. 

 

Titanium dioxide is an expensive material to build with (increasing construction costs by 5%) but it has a remarkable property; it reacts with some forms of air pollution in the presence of light to neutralise them.

 

In 2015 a 13,000 square foot building called the Palazzo Italia in Milan was opened, and it was covered in this material. When opened the people behind the design claimed it could remove 1000 cars worth of air pollution from the air each day!

 

https://innovate-eco.com/17-innovative-ways-to-reduce-air-pollution-in-our-cities/

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by spidermike007

[Bim Smith]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

In Thailand its always somebody else's fault! 

It's called collective cultural narcissism 

[Bim Smith]

Singapore look to at least have made a start back in 2014. I dare you Thailand if it's genuinely another countries fault.

[NorthernRyland]

3 hours ago, JCauto said:

See? It's just SO DAMN EASY! I reckon a genius like yourself could probably sort it in a couple of months, no? 

What kind of burning are you talking about exactly? I live in the north and spend lots of times in the mountains and I don't see the hill tribes burning those steep plots like you're mentioning. I do see them burning the forests for foraging and general rubbish though which is the cause of most of the smoke I believe. The general squalor of the Hmong is pretty pathetic in general but that's their fault and if you held them to higher standards it would help everyone.

 

Anyways, why should we be so concerned about these particular peoples needs and lack of ability? This literally affects millions of people so I find it hard to find any sympathy for them.

 

 

[Spock]

11 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

But quite true in this case.

Laos, Myanmar and Cambodia are virtually big fireplaces.

CM approx. at the center of this map:

Yeah but it's a lot easier to express an opinion if you don't allow facts and maps to get in your way.

[MrJ2U]

It's really bad anywhere in Thailand. 

 

Nobody in there right mind should visit Chiang Mai at the moment.   It's an overpriced bio hazard area with a few Chinese and Russian tourists thrown in to add to the unpleasant experience. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by MrJ2U

[JeffersLos]

I presume the red dots on those infographs aren't to scale, as otherwise the whole of north Cambodia is one giant fire. 

[MrJ2U]

3 hours ago, Bim Smith said:

Singapore look to at least have made a start back in 2014. I dare you Thailand if it's genuinely another countries fault.

And that doesn't show Indonesia, the largest contributar.

 

 

[keysersoze276]

So go to war, Thailand. With your broken aircraft carrier that has been rotting in the sea for decades and your Chinese submarine with no engine. ????

[Medicine Man]

Tourism is probably the only fix. If the tourists wised up then they wouldn't be visiting Chiang Mai (and Thailand) if their health was at risk. The travel agents responsible for sending them over should be sued, that would send a strong message to TAT if tourism dried up..

[arick]

It's known for a lot of other things also.  What about the 1.5 billion stolen from investors.   The new concept 

 

[Bim Smith]

On 3/13/2023 at 10:03 PM, MrJ2U said:

And that doesn't show Indonesia, the largest contributar.

 

 

I agree. In fact the law at first specifically targeted Indonesia 

[TigerandDog]

On 3/13/2023 at 9:56 AM, NanLaew said:

No longer on the podium.

 

It should be noted that these are only major cities, not rural areas. Where I am the pm2.5 was 246 yesterday & 287 the previous day. After last night's wind and rain it's down to 100

[LarryLEB]

On 3/13/2023 at 8:56 AM, realfunster said:

That website has a useful timeline function, where you can check past dates.

I present 14th & 28th February, 2023...the prosecution rests m'lud.

I propose the defendant is guilty as charged and must do better.

 

It is, however, true that at present, Myanmar/Laos and Cambodia are basically on fire, I wonder what actions can be taken at an ASEAN level to address this ? I recall Singapore/Malaysia used to get swamped by Indonesian smoke and there was some progress with that. 

In the first photo above, almost ALL of northwest Thailand is on fire.  Perhaps it is not just the neighbours!

[keithkarmann]

On 3/13/2023 at 7:59 AM, BritManToo said:

In Thailand its always somebody else's fault! 

We have just arrived in Chiang Mai and it is bad. But we came from Sukhothai and it is worse there. Not caused by neighbours but by the local farmers burning sugar cane stubble. It is so easy to try and blame someone else.

[LetsGoJoe]

Chiang Mai has become infamous over the years for obvious reasons, but to be fair look at a fire map or have a peak at the AQI of other provinces, it becomes obvious that not only is the entire upper-half of the country a smouldering fire-pit but the neighboring countries as well. If the CM Gov. were able to completely stop man-made burning within the province, CM-city, being in a basin, would likely still fill-up with smoke. There are numerous places like Pai or Mae Hong Song for example that are by far consistently worst than Chiang Mai, they are not on the international radar as is BKK & CM.

In short, the burning IS far worst in Thailand than indicated from the PM2.5 in CM.

[LetsGoJoe]

On 3/13/2023 at 6:59 PM, NorthernRyland said:

What kind of burning are you talking about exactly? I live in the north and spend lots of times in the mountains and I don't see the hill tribes burning those steep plots like you're mentioning. I do see them burning the forests for foraging and general rubbish though which is the cause of most of the smoke I believe. The general squalor of the Hmong is pretty pathetic in general but that's their fault and if you held them to higher standards it would help everyone.

 

Anyways, why should we be so concerned about these particular peoples needs and lack of ability? This literally affects millions of people so I find it hard to find any sympathy for them.

 

 

Have you been to Tak?....a few years back I did a motorcycle trip; CM-Mae Sot -Sukohthai-CM, took a nice back road off the 105 that ran east, parallel to Hyw 12 from Mae Sot. Beautiful green and lush mountains all around for many kms, then suddenly, what appears like a lunar landscape, yet mountainous, opens up in front of us. As far as the eye can see are denuded hills - it was jaw dropping,we had to stop to take it in. The sheer Hercules hand & foot machete labor involved in the forest destruction of whole mountain-sides was impressive to imagine. As we continued to ride through this area we only saw a hand-full of hills that had active crops on them, the vast majority appeared to be abandoned or rendered infertile after likely only a few crop rotations, which assumed to be mostly corn. We saw people working the harvest, sacking and rolling bundles of corn down the hillside to a fleet of waiting trucks.

 

So who's responsible for this age old slash and burn farming practice?

None other than the Hmong, who are well know to be the most systematically environmentally destructive Tribe in the hills. They are not all poor and squalored.

Many are very well organized and financed by big corps. such as CP to grow the crops on scale that they want... the environment be damned.

 

The area we rode through that day is only a fraction of the environmental destruction in Tak province, and it continues as they are forced to move to the next mountain as the top soil is quickly exhausted of its nutrients. So the clearing and the burning follow suit.

The Hmong are not solely to blame, they are only availing opportunity handed to them from Big Corp. and made possible from the blind-eyes of the gov. and local forest management - Corruption 101.

This just reflects one of many issues that contribute to the overall poor air quality. With agriculture taking up 49% of land-use in Thailand the AQI problem is not likely to be resolved anytime soon....or later.

 

[Phil1964]

On 3/13/2023 at 6:38 AM, Robert Tyrrell said:

Good Afternoon,

 

Thailand is literally 30-40 Years behind the Western World, Until they start stepping up with responsible Environmental Laws and Protections for the environment Thailands environment will suffer , Thailand your environmentally destroying your paradise !!!!   WAKE UP !!  

 

Only 30 - 40 years, you sure??

 

Thais seem to be culturally, mentally, psychologically stuck in an equivalent to the west in the 1950's, (pre Elvis and rock n roll 1950's too.