What health insurance company?

[Captor]

Hi,

I am in the position on choosing a health insurance for me as an expat with extension based on Non-O (marriage).

It would be of interest to read what other expats here in Thailand have chosen and how good the companies are. How good are they when it comes to a claim?

How expensive? Pros and cons? Any input is of interest, thanks.

 

update: Sorry I forgot to mention that I am 65, soon 66.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Captor

[scubascuba3]

Many threads on health insurance. The problem you'll have is apart from the high cost if you are 60+ you'll have preexisting conditions some undiagnosed and insurers will use it as a stick to beat you if you don't declare everything

[proton]

Pacific cross, Cigna and WRLife seem popular, I chose none

Edited March 15, 2023 by proton

[yeahbutif]

All I can say is I chose WRLife as the quarterly payment are with in my budget at £396 . I'm 65 and no heath problems.. but will see if they pay out if needed.. as can't find anything on claims yet .. 

[Toolong]

Just a comment, Captor...... maybe helpful, or maybe not, or entirely unnecessary.......but only want to point out that currently having health insurance is not a requirement for getting an extension based on marriage, though it is for an extension based on retirement. 

[scottiejohn]

2 minutes ago, Toolong said:

health insurance is not a requirement for getting an extension based on marriage, though it is for an extension based on retirement. 

What retirement extension needs health insurance, mine doesn't?

[Captor]

1 hour ago, yeahbutif said:

All I can say is I chose WRLife as the quarterly payment are with in my budget at £396 . I'm 65 and no heath problems.. but will see if they pay out if needed.. as can't find anything on claims yet .. 

Thank you very much for the input. Yes, WR look like to be more cheap but how are they when it comes to pay out as you say. Would be nice to see any input about that.

[Captor]

10 minutes ago, Toolong said:

Just a comment, Captor...... maybe helpful, or maybe not, or entirely unnecessary.......but only want to point out that currently having health insurance is not a requirement for getting an extension based on marriage, though it is for an extension based on retirement. 

Thank you, Toolong, however for me it is about be covered if something happen.

[Captor]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Many threads on health insurance. The problem you'll have is apart from the high cost if you are 60+ you'll have preexisting conditions some undiagnosed and insurers will use it as a stick to beat you if you don't declare everything

Not so many if search. Only 2 came up. I searched "Health insurance". Maybe I did something wrong. Yes my age is a problem and also the preexisting condition. Better be honest about that I think..

[4MyEgo]

40 minutes ago, Captor said:

Not so many if search. Only 2 came up. I searched "Health insurance". Maybe I did something wrong. Yes my age is a problem and also the preexisting condition. Better be honest about that I think..

I took health insurance with a health insurer through a broker after trying again after 2 years because in the beginning I couldn't find one that would insure me with my pre-existing condition.

 

What I found was that it started off reasonable, then went up every year and then when entering the 5 year bracket, e.g. 59-64 it went up big time, and then the following year they changed underwriters and it and it went into the ridiculous side, i.e. 150,000 baht per year from 110,000 baht per year.

 

This was back in May of last year, so what I did was put 250,000 baht aside and then when the families policy came up in January his year, got rid of them as well and I put another 150,000 aside as that policy was on the up as well, plus I have added another 100,000 baht since then, suffice to say I have 500,000 baht aside in the first year, and yes ok, some people can't do that, I get it.

 

I will put aside the same amounts every anniversary so as to build it up to say at least 3 million baht which I believe would be comfortable.

 

I found in the 4 years that I was insured that it gave me and my family protection, but when I started out, it was in the 70,000 baht range then jumping to 150,000 baht which was ridiculous, no regrets, but there comes a point where one has to say, enough is enough.

 

Look up AA Insurance Brokers, they can assist if you want to go down that path, but at your age and with pre-existing condition/s, you will be better off self insuring in my opinion, i.e. unless you want to see your policy rising annually, even without any claims as was the case with me.

 

They find us to high a risk as we age, even though I am healthy, eat well, exercise, don't smoke and drink moderately, but at the end of the day, it's the age, the see us as the older we get, the higher the risk.

 

Best of luck anyways, been there, done that, self insuring is more suitable for me and my family, suffice to say, you can have your cake and eat it too.

[Captor]

26 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I took health insurance with a health insurer through a broker after trying again after 2 years because in the beginning I couldn't find one that would insure me with my pre-existing condition.

 

What I found was that it started off reasonable, then went up every year and then when entering the 5 year bracket, e.g. 59-64 it went up big time, and then the following year they changed underwriters and it and it went into the ridiculous side, i.e. 150,000 baht per year from 110,000 baht per year.

 

This was back in May of last year, so what I did was put 250,000 baht aside and then when the families policy came up in January his year, got rid of them as well and I put another 150,000 aside as that policy was on the up as well, plus I have added another 100,000 baht since then, suffice to say I have 500,000 baht aside in the first year, and yes ok, some people can't do that, I get it.

 

I will put aside the same amounts every anniversary so as to build it up to say at least 3 million baht which I believe would be comfortable.

 

I found in the 4 years that I was insured that it gave me and my family protection, but when I started out, it was in the 70,000 baht range then jumping to 150,000 baht which was ridiculous, no regrets, but there comes a point where one has to say, enough is enough.

 

Look up AA Insurance Brokers, they can assist if you want to go down that path, but at your age and with pre-existing condition/s, you will be better off self insuring in my opinion, i.e. unless you want to see your policy rising annually, even without any claims as was the case with me.

 

They find us to high a risk as we age, even though I am healthy, eat well, exercise, don't smoke and drink moderately, but at the end of the day, it's the age, the see us as the older we get, the higher the risk.

 

Best of luck anyways, been there, done that, self insuring is more suitable for me and my family, suffice to say, you can have your cake and eat it too.

Thank you very much for the nice answer.  Yes the insurance business is a shameful and the private hospitals as well. If self insuring I guess you will use

the government hospitals, right? I have no problem with using them mysef if they are OK and having good doctors. I more and more understands the people who, like yourself, are self insuring. Maybe that will be the path for me as well. We will see. I would like to hear if anyone are using WR and if they hav had a claim with them. That would be of interest.

[JimmyJ]

AA Insurance brokers.

 

April International Insurance out of France (not the Thailand April Insurance).

 

Do not use a Thai Insurance company.

[Bday Prang]

2 hours ago, Toolong said:

Just a comment, Captor...... maybe helpful, or maybe not, or entirely unnecessary.......but only want to point out that currently having health insurance is not a requirement for getting an extension based on marriage, though it is for an extension based on retirement. 

Why oh Why oh why do people post incorrect information like this ?   

[simon43]

24 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

AA Insurance brokers.

 

April International Insurance out of France (not the Thailand April Insurance).

 

Do not use a Thai Insurance company.

Based on my own experience of April Insurance (France) completely cancelling my insurance cover after I made a pre-authorisation claim for a prostate cancer biopsy, I would say that if you do apply for cover from this company, that you declare every absolutely minor injury or illness that has occurred in your lifetime!  (ingrowing toenail, botox injections, bunions etc etc). April rejected my claim because I had failed to declare an unrelated condition (slight BPH), even though that condition had never been formally diagnosed by any doctor.....

 

Prior to these events, I had confidence that insurance companies would not try to 'wriggle' out of their responsibilities by citing some totally unrelated clause in their fine print.  As a result, I wasted thousands of $ paying April for several years when I could have been saving that money instead.  It's very unlikely that I will take out health insurance in the future because now I simply do not trust any insurance company.  I'll save my $ and self-insure and hope for the best.

[JimmyJ]

22 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Based on my own experience of April Insurance (France) completely cancelling my insurance cover after I made a pre-authorisation claim for a prostate cancer biopsy, I would say that if you do apply for cover from this company, that you declare every absolutely minor injury or illness that has occurred in your lifetime!  (ingrowing toenail, botox injections, bunions etc etc). April rejected my claim because I had failed to declare an unrelated condition (slight BPH), even though that condition had never been formally diagnosed by any doctor.....

 

Prior to these events, I had confidence that insurance companies would not try to 'wriggle' out of their responsibilities by citing some totally unrelated clause in their fine print.  As a result, I wasted thousands of $ paying April for several years when I could have been saving that money instead.  It's very unlikely that I will take out health insurance in the future because now I simply do not trust any insurance company.  I'll save my $ and self-insure and hope for the best.

I forgot it was you who had that bad experience.

 

I think I will stop mentioning them in the future.

Your incident has me wondering about them.

Not sure what I wil do in the future.

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I took health insurance with a health insurer through a broker after trying again after 2 years because in the beginning I couldn't find one that would insure me with my pre-existing condition.

 

What I found was that it started off reasonable, then went up every year and then when entering the 5 year bracket, e.g. 59-64 it went up big time, and then the following year they changed underwriters and it and it went into the ridiculous side, i.e. 150,000 baht per year from 110,000 baht per year.

 

This was back in May of last year, so what I did was put 250,000 baht aside and then when the families policy came up in January his year, got rid of them as well and I put another 150,000 aside as that policy was on the up as well, plus I have added another 100,000 baht since then, suffice to say I have 500,000 baht aside in the first year, and yes ok, some people can't do that, I get it.

 

I will put aside the same amounts every anniversary so as to build it up to say at least 3 million baht which I believe would be comfortable.

 

I found in the 4 years that I was insured that it gave me and my family protection, but when I started out, it was in the 70,000 baht range then jumping to 150,000 baht which was ridiculous, no regrets, but there comes a point where one has to say, enough is enough.

 

Look up AA Insurance Brokers, they can assist if you want to go down that path, but at your age and with pre-existing condition/s, you will be better off self insuring in my opinion, i.e. unless you want to see your policy rising annually, even without any claims as was the case with me.

 

They find us to high a risk as we age, even though I am healthy, eat well, exercise, don't smoke and drink moderately, but at the end of the day, it's the age, the see us as the older we get, the higher the risk.

 

Best of luck anyways, been there, done that, self insuring is more suitable for me and my family, suffice to say, you can have your cake and eat it too.

The insurance companies are for profit organisations which employ actuaries and statisticians to set premiums, and age and pre-existing conditions are probably the most important factors. Especially age - you may think you are healthy today, but could be very unhealthy in a matter of day or week.

 

https://financialpost.com/personal-finance/retirement/once-you-hit-60-its-time-to-take-carpe-diem-seriously

 

 

[Captor]

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

The insurance companies are for profit organisations which employ actuaries and statisticians to set premiums, and age and pre-existing conditions are probably the most important factors. Especially age - you may think you are healthy today, but could be very unhealthy in a matter of day or week.

 

https://financialpost.com/personal-finance/retirement/once-you-hit-60-its-time-to-take-carpe-diem-seriously

 

 

Yeah, so very true.

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, gearbox said:

you may think you are healthy today, but could be very unhealthy in a matter of day or week.

True, insurers can also deny the claim so insurance has been for nothing

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, Captor said:

Thank you very much for the input. Yes, WR look like to be more cheap but how are they when it comes to pay out as you say. Would be nice to see any input about that.

A few interesting threads on WRLife will give more detail, search is better using Google rather than search on the forum

[Captor]

50 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

A few interesting threads on WRLife will give more detail, search is better using Google rather than search on the forum

Good idea, I will try that, thanks.

[TheAppletons]

20 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

What retirement extension needs health insurance, mine doesn't?

  People who are extending what was originally a non-OA visa are required to have health insurance.

[jerrymahoney]

36 minutes ago, Captor said:

Good idea, I will try that, thanks.

Redux:

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1286793-wrlife-claim-filed-take-2/

 

[Bday Prang]

42 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

  People who are extending what was originally a non-OA visa are required to have health insurance.

They need it when applying for the visa originally as well as when extending

[mokwit]

It seems the thing you really want to insure against, a protracted hospital stay, is difficult to insure against.

Edited March 15, 2023 by mokwit

[Toolong]

11 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

What retirement extension needs health insurance, mine doesn't?

Ermm...........dunno!???? Don't retirement ext's  need health insurance? I genuinely thought they did!! I am very sorry if I have given wrong information. ????

 

I have an extension based on marriage. I find the marriage extension/ application such a complicated process and I have often regretted not being able to get a retirement ext' because of the high-cost (for me) of annual health insurance, which......to my understanding, is a requirement for such an extension. 

 

scottiejohn, I still think my understanding is correct about that requirement (with coverage up to 3million,afaik)........despite you not needing it somehow. If I am wrong, scottie, I would be delighted (really!) to BE wrong, and I'll be the first to declare myself a misinformed fool! ????????

 

 

[Toolong]

12 hours ago, Captor said:

Thank you, Toolong, however for me it is about be covered if something happen.

Yes of course. ????

[beau thai]

I insured with Cigna. never had any claims. But when i reached a round number birthday they said I had reached a higher risk pool. They tripled the premium. I cancelled,

I self insure now but that can need deep pockets too

[Captor]

59 minutes ago, beau thai said:

I insured with Cigna. never had any claims. But when i reached a round number birthday they said I had reached a higher risk pool. They tripled the premium. I cancelled,

I self insure now but that can need deep pockets too

Wow! Happy Birthday....(not)

[Sheryl]

This issue has been done to death in prior threads. Use google search function, not forum search. "health insurance site:aseannow.com"

 

Key issue is whether you get local (Thai issued) policy or an internationally issued expat policy.  Be aware that Thai companies are allowed to raise rates on an individual basis after you make a claim which to my mind negates the value of insurance.  They also have a generally worse track record when it comes to pay outs.

 

Definitely want a policy that does full medical underwriting rather than moratorium basis. Otherwise you do not know in advance what may be covered in the first few years.

Whether Thai policy or international policy, at your age options will be limited.

 

And should always get through a broker. Many of us use AA.

 

 

[Sheryl]

10 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

I forgot it was you who had that bad experience.

 

I think I will stop mentioning them in the future.

Your incident has me wondering about them.

Not sure what I wil do in the future.

To be fair, his incident was not quite as he describes it.

 

the pre-existing condition which he did not declare was quite relevant to the request for pre-authoritzation that was investigated and led to cancellation of his policy, and was noted in the medical documentation submitted by the hospital with that request.

 

While BPH is a totally different condition than prostate cancer it significantly increases the odds of needing a prostate biopsy to distinguish benign from malignant prostate growth, and the pre-authorization request  which triggered this was  for a prostate biopsy.

 

And the condition was documented in  tests he had done prior to taking out the policy.

 

With any policy, it is essential to declare all health conditions at time of application but I have never yet heard of any insurer cancelling a policy over "ingrowing toenail, botox injections, bunions etc". The key issue is whether the non-declared condition would, if it had been made known, affected the coverage the insurer would offer, and BPH most certainly would have.

 

I have APril insurance and have had many claims paid by them with no problem. But I declared all existing conditions (including one I had never seen a doctor for but detected during routine check up) and accepted an exclusion accordingly. (I was given choice  of exclusion or higher premium, opted for the former).