Poland to send four fighter jets to Ukraine 'in coming days'

[Scott]

 

Poland will send four Soviet-era Mig fighter jets to Ukraine - becoming the first Nato country to send planes since Russia invaded last year.

Polish President Andrzej Duda said they would be sent in the coming days, with others handed over in the future.

Though a welcome boost to Ukraine's air defence, the extra jets are not expected to be decisive in the war.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64975770

[Tug]

Excellent news let’s hope it’s just the start of a veritable flood of aircraft hopefully the flood gates have finally been opened!!slava Ukraine ???????? 

[expat_4_life]

Each to their own, I'm anti-war. I find this horrifying.

 

It's an escalation spiral that knows no limits and as admitted in the article:

"Though a welcome boost to Ukraine's air defence, the extra jets are not expected to be decisive in the war."

 

Isn't this an just awkward way of saying, the fighter jets are not going to make any difference, while leaving out the fact that Ukrainian pilots are going to sacrifice their lives to no purpose?

 

What is the point of this escalation/provocation?

Edited March 17, 2023 by expat_4_life

[CatCage]

Not gong to help very much in the present state of the conflict, they really need a squadron of A10s to take out tanks and other ground targets.

 

The US has scheduled  A10 for retirement  and could easily spare a few of these potent ground attack aircraft so wonder what the problem is?  

[TKDfella]

52 minutes ago, expat_4_life said:

Each to their own, I'm anti-war. I find this horrifying.

 

It's an escalation spiral that knows no limits and as admitted in the article:

"Though a welcome boost to Ukraine's air defence, the extra jets are not expected to be decisive in the war."

 

Isn't this an just awkward way of saying, the fighter jets are not going to make any difference, while leaving out the fact that Ukrainian pilots are going to sacrifice their lives to no purpose?

 

What is the point of this escalation/provocation?

Although I understand your point of view, indeed, I contend this war should end. However, none of the alternatives seem acceptable or wanted; if the 'allies' of Ukraine help with a deciding blow towards Russia then probably Putin would have no alternative but to use a nuclear strike and WWIII will start. If Russia is allowed to apply the winning blow then we don't know this would affect Putin's 'boldness' for further invasions in the future. 

[Kwasaki]

Aircraft other than expendable drones seem to be pretty useless in the conventional ground war of today. 

Tanks have not been seen to to be much cop either. 

 

Long range artillery systems protected by missile systems and drones maybe some balloons seem the the best way to go. ????

[Wobblybob]

1 hour ago, expat_4_life said:

Isn't this an just awkward way of saying, the fighter jets are not going to make any difference, while leaving out the fact that Ukrainian pilots are going to sacrifice their lives to no purpose?

The Ukraine pilots will be sacrificing their lives in the name of freedom and to stop the Russians becoming their masters, that is the "purpose."

The Ukrainians are fighting for their lives, there is only one side that can stop this barbaric war and that is Russia!

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Aircraft other than expendable drones seem to be pretty useless in the conventional ground war of today. 

Tanks have not been seen to to be much cop either. 

 

Long range artillery systems protected by missile systems and drones maybe some balloons seem the the best way to go. ????

Aircraft are not useless when used in a coordinated fashion with other forces. They are nearly useless in the case of the Russians, who have proven to be incompetent at implementing such coordination.

 

Is the Russian Air Force Actually Incapable of Complex Air Operations?

More than a week into the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Russian Air Force has yet to commence large-scale operations. Inactivity in the first few days could be ascribed to various factors, but the continued absence of major air operations now raises serious capability questions.

One of the greatest surprises from the initial phase of the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been the inability of the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS) fighter and fighter-bomber fleets to establish air superiority, or to deploy significant combat power in support of the under-performing Russian ground forces. On the first day of the invasion, an anticipated series of large-scale Russian air operations in the aftermath of initial cruise- and ballistic-missile strikes did not materialise.

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/rusi-defence-systems/russian-air-force-actually-incapable-complex-air-operations

 

Nothing has significantly changed since this article was written.

[Kwasaki]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Aircraft are not useless when used in a coordinated fashion with other forces. They are nearly useless in the case of the Russians, who have proven to be incompetent at implementing such coordination.

 

Is the Russian Air Force Actually Incapable of Complex Air Operations?

More than a week into the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Russian Air Force has yet to commence large-scale operations. Inactivity in the first few days could be ascribed to various factors, but the continued absence of major air operations now raises serious capability questions.

One of the greatest surprises from the initial phase of the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been the inability of the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS) fighter and fighter-bomber fleets to establish air superiority, or to deploy significant combat power in support of the under-performing Russian ground forces. On the first day of the invasion, an anticipated series of large-scale Russian air operations in the aftermath of initial cruise- and ballistic-missile strikes did not materialise.

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/rusi-defence-systems/russian-air-force-actually-incapable-complex-air-operations

 

Nothing has significantly changed since this article was written.

Nothing changed is not good. 

 

I guess the 4 fighters will be handy to scamble when Russian drones are coming instead of using expensive missiles. 

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

The Ukraine pilots will be sacrificing their lives in the name of freedom and to stop the Russians becoming their masters, that is the "purpose."

The Ukrainians are fighting for their lives, there is only one side that can stop this barbaric war and that is Russia!

That's one way of dealing with the situation.

[placeholder]

32 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Nothing changed is not good. 

 

I guess the 4 fighters will be handy to scamble when Russian drones are coming instead of using expensive missiles. 

You think that's the only purpose of these aircraft? Got anything any other ridiculous observations to share?

Ukraine has demonstrated over and over again that it knows how to use coordinated forces..

[Kwasaki]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You think that's the only purpose of these aircraft? Got anything any other ridiculous observations to share?

Ukraine has demonstrated over and over again that it knows how to use coordinated forces..

Yes. 

What observation are there other than what happened.

Coordinated but still a loss of 40,000 sq miles of their land. 

[placeholder]

Just now, Kwasaki said:

Yes. 

What observation are there other than what happened.

Coordinated but still a loss of 40,000 sq miles of their land. 

What do you think that proves apart from the fact that, among other things, Ukraine's air force was simply too small and it didn't have enough other armaments?

[James105]

2 hours ago, expat_4_life said:

What is the point of this escalation/provocation?

Money typically.  People get very rich out of wars.  Obviously when escalation reaches it's inevitable end point and there is no option but peace, and the guys with the 6000 nukes have a strong bargaining hand and get their way anyway, all the warmongers and those with Ukraine flags in their Twitter bios will be shaking their head at the needless loss of life wondering how it all came to this.   

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, James105 said:

Money typically.  People get very rich out of wars.  Obviously when escalation reaches it's inevitable end point and there is no option but peace, and the guys with the 6000 nukes have a strong bargaining hand and get their way anyway, all the warmongers and those with Ukraine flags in their Twitter bios will be shaking their head at the needless loss of life wondering how it all came to this.   

Because if money is to be made out of an endeavor, that means the endeavor is illegitimate? Got any more trite observations to share with us? Going to motive is the last resort of someone who's got little to offer. And I've read many allegations about Russia's suicidal tendencies. But i've never seen a convincing refutation of where do you draw the line against Russia and it's potential nuclear threats.

[Kwasaki]

20 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What do you think that proves apart from the fact that, among other things, Ukraine's air force was simply too small and it didn't have enough other armaments?

Well what's the coordinated forces been doing since 2014.

[Chomper Higgot]

I think the message is clear enough.

 

We got your spies, here’s our response.

[placeholder]

27 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Well what's the coordinated forces been doing since 2014.

How is this germane to the fact that Ukraine simply doesn't have enough aircraft?

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

How is this germane to the fact that Ukraine simply doesn't have enough aircraft?

Well they have over 100 already by all asks and their getting 4 migs now.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, expat_4_life said:

Each to their own, I'm anti-war. I find this horrifying.

 

It's an escalation spiral that knows no limits and as admitted in the article:

"Though a welcome boost to Ukraine's air defence, the extra jets are not expected to be decisive in the war."

 

Isn't this an just awkward way of saying, the fighter jets are not going to make any difference, while leaving out the fact that Ukrainian pilots are going to sacrifice their lives to no purpose?

 

What is the point of this escalation/provocation?

Ask Putin who started the war, (and it IS a war) in the first place.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, CatCage said:

Not gong to help very much in the present state of the conflict, they really need a squadron of A10s to take out tanks and other ground targets.

 

The US has scheduled  A10 for retirement  and could easily spare a few of these potent ground attack aircraft so wonder what the problem is?  

Most probably due to air and ground crew training and logistical support.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Well they have over 100 already by all asks and their getting 4 migs now.

Total aircraft amount to over 100. Fighter jets are in short supply.

[Bkk Brian]

20 hours ago, Scott said:

Poland will send four Soviet-era Mig fighter jets to Ukraine - becoming the first Nato country to send planes since Russia invaded last year.

Another 13 from Slovakia heading Ukraine's way:

 

Slovakia’s government on Friday approved a plan to give Ukraine its fleet of 13 Soviet-era MiG-29 fighter jets, becoming the second NATO member country to heed the Ukrainian government’s pleas for warplanes to help defend against Russia’s invasion.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-mig-slovakia-jets-4d72dfd433950a23bea7655870ce0e24

[pedro01]

So effectively, NATO is now on Russia's doorstep.

 

[mike123ca]

This war is just going to escalate further. Now is time to provide Ukraine with everything it needs to grind down the Russian war machine. 

[asf6]

On 3/17/2023 at 9:19 AM, expat_4_life said:

What is the point of this escalation/provocation?

Perhaps it is just to push, prod and encourage other Western/NATO countries to supply planes to Ukraine. If it works, the richer nations will likely supply newer and more advanced aircraft than those supplied by Poland and Slovakia. 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, pedro01 said:

So effectively, NATO is now on Russia's doorstep.

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/map-shows-russias-border-nato-090247369.html

 

Nato already has nations with borders to Russia and has done for many years.

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/map-shows-russias-border-nato-090247369.html

 

Sinéad Baker
18 May 2022

 

weden and Finland have applied to join NATO.

Finland has an 830-mile border with Russia, so Russia's border with NATO would more than double.

Russia has made repeated threats and said it would have to retaliate if they join.

Sweden and Finland applied on Wednesday to join the NATO military alliance, likely frustrating a long-term aim of President Vladimir Putin to roll NATO borders back.

If accepted, their presence would instantly more than double the border between NATO countries and Russia, from around 750 miles to around 1,600.

At present, NATO has land borders with Russia spanning 754 miles across northern Norway, eastern Latvia and Estonia, and the borders with Poland and Lithuania around Russia's Kaliningrad region.

Finland joining would add 830 miles of continuous border along northwestern Russia, taking the total to 1,584 miles. Sweden has no land border with Russia, but is a major presence along the coast of the Baltic Sea.

 

Sigh. Please do some research before spouting rubbish.

[herfiehandbag]

On 3/17/2023 at 10:13 AM, CatCage said:

Not gong to help very much in the present state of the conflict, they really need a squadron of A10s to take out tanks and other ground targets.

 

The US has scheduled  A10 for retirement  and could easily spare a few of these potent ground attack aircraft so wonder what the problem is?  

1) finding pilots who can fly them.

2) finding ground crew who know how to service and repair them.

3) ensuring a supply of spare parts to keep them flying.

4) supplying the munitions they need to fight.

 

All these will take at least 6 months to achieve.

 

MIG 29s can be in action more or less straight away.

 

Yes they are dated, but so will be the aircraft that they are tangling with.

 

F16 fighters and A10 ground attack aircraft will be in the pipeline, but it is a long pipeline.

[steven100]

3 hours ago, pedro01 said:

So effectively, NATO is now on Russia's doorstep.

 

hope so ...

[steven100]

On 3/17/2023 at 10:34 AM, Kwasaki said:

maybe some balloons seem the the best way to go. ????

it's not a damn xmas party you know ....             

I'll just get my coat    !

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by steven100