In laws cow died giving birth... Now the calf gets diarrhea when being given S26 and Nutralac milk. Please help!

[INANIMATECARBONROD]

I'm not in Thailand right now, but we got a call from my Thai in-laws about their new calf. 

 

The mother died while giving birth so they tried to have another cow give it milk. The other cow stomped the baby, injuring it. Then they tried S26 and Nutralac artificial milk. The calf drank it, but then had diarrhea all day. They don't know what to do next. 

 

Can anyone out there help me? Is there a quality ranch/agriculture supply store that I could buy different milk (or milk alternative) from and have it shipped to them?  Is there a way to 'trick' the other cow into letting this new calf drink from her?' I'm as green a grass when it comes to this stuff, but I don't want the little guy to die. 

 

Any help would be appreciated. 

[FritsSikkink]

Call a vet.

[2baht]

Send some money!

[EVENKEEL]

To get better response maybe post in different section. I grew up on a dairy in the 60's, we fed the calves powdered milk. When a calf had the runs (scours) my dad would put just like 1/2  cap full of bleach. The cap on the bottle, like a bit in there and mix with milk. As a kid I didn't like the idea but now in the US they have medicated milk powder with a bleach like additive in it for scours.

 

I just want to say today I'm sure a vet here in Thailand would have meds to mix with milk for the scours. Please don't tell the fam to add bleach unless they understand to use just a little bit.

 

Go online and you can find more info and research the bleach thing.

Edited April 7, 2023 by EVENKEEL

[INANIMATECARBONROD]

Thanks to all those that helped. A quick update... 

 

After some extensive research (and let's be honest, a few pints ☺ ???? ) , we suggested they give the calf gentamicin (for the diarrhea) followed by Pendistrep (for the fever) a few hours later. They managed to find a vet who would sell them these medications and gave them to the little guy. Good news: The calf seems to be acting better.... My MIL sent a video of the calf looking better but still sitting down. They seemed very happy about it, said the calf's temp was down and they believed he was feeling "better".  Only time will tell.... Hopefully it takes the milk okay now. 

 

Oddly enough, the in-laws were talking to one "vet" and the vet was telling them that he doesn't give medication to any calf under 4 months old. "Thai style" vet, I guess. We have had some good and some bad experiences with Thai vets with dogs in the past so we are weary of putting our full trust in them. 

 

Anyway, that's that for now. Keep the shiny side up, fellas. 

[connda]

Contact a dairy cow farmer and buy raw milk from them.  The calf needs actual milk not fake substitution and there are plenty of dairy farmers in Thailand.

As a last resort, buy commercial milk from a store like Chok Chai and add whipping cream to it.  Check on the internet regarding the optimal proportions of milk to cream.

[connda]

26 minutes ago, INANIMATECARBONROD said:

We have had some good and some bad experiences with Thai vets with dogs in the past so we are weary of putting our full trust in them. 

My (former) Thai vet killed one of my pups who had nausea four days ago by administering a strong injectable that sent my dog into Grand Mal seizures and killed her 5 hours later after I went through a horror trying to comfort her as she suffered a non-stop seizure.  I gave her the prescribed shot myself, and I'm dealing with immense guilt, anger, and regret that I haven't experienced for a long time. My pup was a beautiful animal and only 2 years old.
I spent 4 hours comforting my dogs, and she died unfortunately when I left to take a break and shower the blood and saliva off of me and take an hour break.  It was an absolute horror.  All I wanted from the vet was a anti-nausea liquid for her to ingest.  My trust of vets is pretty damn low now because this wasn't a single instance of the vet doing rather questionable  things which I believe was to squeeze additional money out of me. Liquid anti-nausea meds are cheap; the shot was not. I researched the injectable medication the vet prescribed, and discovered that it has a black-box "seizure warning."  Like I said - I'll never go back to the vet again.  I have a lot of animals and I've been a regular customers for over 12 years.  Set Laew.  I'm done with that vet.
Do you own homework and research and question your vets assumptions and recommendation.  If they don't feel right, research online and/or get a second opinion.

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by connda

[connda]

3 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

The cap on the bottle, like a bit in there and mix with milk. As a kid I didn't like the idea but now in the US they have medicated milk powder with a bleach like additive in it for scours.

Would you drink milk with bleach in it? 

[EVENKEEL]

32 minutes ago, connda said:

Would you drink milk with bleach in it? 

I'm not a bovine. It was an old time remedy that worked. Now adays you can buy medicated milk powder that basically has a bleach like ingredient added. At least in the US you can.

[jvs]

Yes when you have live stock you will have to deal with dead stock.

Op, does the cow that stomped on the calf have her own calf?

Can they milk this cow by hand or is it too wild?

Not really enough information here.

I have had to place a lot of calves with a strange cow but in those cases

the calves were the same age and there are some tricks to have the cow accept the calf.

 

 

[Maybole]

Milk the other cow and feed the calf from the bucket. If it will not drink from the bucket, use a baby's bottle frequently until it can.

I saw this done as a wee boy in Ayrshire (well known Dairying county.)

[still kicking]

On 4/7/2023 at 12:56 PM, connda said:

Would you drink milk with bleach in it? 

Donald Trump does

[champers]

On 4/7/2023 at 11:56 AM, connda said:

Would you drink milk with bleach in it? 

Tap water has bleach in it.

[still kicking]

6 minutes ago, champers said:

Tap water has bleach in it.

chlorine

[connda]

On 4/7/2023 at 12:37 PM, EVENKEEL said:

I'm not a bovine. It was an old time remedy that worked. Now adays you can buy medicated milk powder that basically has a bleach like ingredient added. At least in the US you can.

Sodium hypochlorite can be used and ingested when very very diluted (50 years ago we used it to purify water drawn from creeks and rivers while camping) but at the dosage you're indicating it can be toxic.
Medicated milk powder for calves nowadays contains Decoquinate (Deccox®) which is a quinolone class of chemical. It sounds like perhaps Sodium Hypochlorite (bleach) works, but at the same time it probably was not good for the overall health of the calves as it is toxic. 
I'm not criticizing or anything, I just find it interesting what beef and dairy farmers did back in the day.  Interesting.  ????  If you have ever read James Herriot's books about his days as a veterinarian back in the 1920s and 30s, the vets did all sorts of things that we'd consider rather queer nowadays.  In fact when his boss, Siegfried, used rather outlandish cures and treatment they made it into his books. One such treatment was to "bleed" a horse as a treatment.  Siegfried actually had a tool to puncture the horse neck, take out a quart or so of blood and stitch it back up.  And the treatment worked!   Wonderful books by the way.

[kickstart]

On 4/7/2023 at 11:25 AM, INANIMATECARBONROD said:

Thanks to all those that helped. A quick update... 

 

After some extensive research (and let's be honest, a few pints ☺ ???? ) , we suggested they give the calf gentamicin (for the diarrhea) followed by Pendistrep (for the fever) a few hours later. They managed to find a vet who would sell them these medications and gave them to the little guy. Good news: The calf seems to be acting better.... My MIL sent a video of the calf looking better but still sitting down. They seemed very happy about it, said the calf's temp was down and they believed he was feeling "better".  Only time will tell.... Hopefully it takes the milk okay now. 

 

Oddly enough, the in-laws were talking to one "vet" and the vet was telling them that he doesn't give medication to any calf under 4 months old. "Thai style" vet, I guess. We have had some good and some bad experiences with Thai vets with dogs in the past so we are weary of putting our full trust in them. 

 

Anyway, that's that for now. Keep the shiny side up, fellas. 

Running well late on this one, a lot depends on where you live, I live-in a big dairy cow area we have most things, we have calf milk powder, imported , mainly from Europe it is about 2000 baht/bag, one bag is about what you need from birth to weaning at about 6-7 weeks. we can also get bottles and teats for feeding calves milk, ask about where you live some one will know where you can buy milk powder etc. ,Mr Google might help you 

It sounded like this calf had a digestive scour ,due to the very wrong feeding of baby formular, what your vet ? did not say was to take it off and milk feed it glucose ,available from most chemists ,and or some Saches  oral rehydration, mix 3 with 2 liters of warm water ,very often it is not the scours that will kill a calf but the dehydration, body fluids lost with the scour.

As for using Gentamycin a broad-spectrum antibiotic, about the same as Pen and Strep, an anti-bacterial would be better, I use to use a drug called Intertrim,an anti-biotic and an anti-bacterial a good drug, now not easy to find now, or  Amphoprim they are anti-bacterial tablets.

As for vet saying he will not inject a calf under 4 months ,very set in his ways, I would not trust 80% of Thai vets, ie a friend of mine had a cow with a lump under its mouth Thai vet ,25 years' experience gave it 2 injections, never said what it was, I had a look at it ,a big abscess about to burst. 

 

[Robin]

I am not a diary farmer, but I have had experience of Thai 'Vets.'

It seems that in Thailand anyone can set up as a "vet"  No qualifications needed.  Can be more frequent in rural areas where there are more animals needing treatment and less money to pay for treatment.   Said vet can purchase medications from local  chemist and administer to any poor animal.

My contact with qualified Vets is that they usually have a surgery  to work from , as well as visiting patients, and surgery will normally have their qualification on display.

Fake vet will often have worked as 'helper' to a real vet, so will have some idea of treatments, and be able to get medications.

Only way to sort out these charlatans is by asking questions, either of the faker, or a real, local, vet, who will probbly know who they are.

Difficult for O/P who is not in Thailand.

Pity the poor calf, being dosed by local quack and 'experts' on T/V.

 

Many animals survive the treatment and thus the Quack gets the credit.

 

This could equally apply to Thai electricians or mechanics.  TIT.

[BangkokReady]

On 4/7/2023 at 8:44 AM, EVENKEEL said:

To get better response maybe post in different section. I grew up on a dairy in the 60's, we fed the calves powdered milk. When a calf had the runs (scours) my dad would put just like 1/2  cap full of bleach. The cap on the bottle, like a bit in there and mix with milk. As a kid I didn't like the idea but now in the US they have medicated milk powder with a bleach like additive in it for scours.

 

I just want to say today I'm sure a vet here in Thailand would have meds to mix with milk for the scours. Please don't tell the fam to add bleach unless they understand to use just a little bit.

 

Go online and you can find more info and research the bleach thing.

Give the cow a bottle of bleach.  OK boss.  ????

[EVENKEEL]

7 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Give the cow a bottle of bleach.  OK boss.  ????

I wrote a small cap full, like a tablesp mixed in a bucket of milk replacer not a bottle of bleach. Some years ago I was in a feed store and saw medicated mild formula that had a similiar advertised ingredient.

 

Even as a kid growing up on a dairy I didn't like the cure, But it seemed to work. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by EVENKEEL