Charlie Kirk Says Gun Deaths 'Unfortunately' Worth it to Keep 2nd Amendment

[Hanaguma]

24 minutes ago, still kicking said:

• includes suicide 

 How about we look at my link? According to it, the homocide rate in Australia flatlined after the gun control legislation (your link shows that as well), before resuming the downward trend that already existed BEFORE the laws.   and overall violent crime (including robberies and armed robberies) actually INcreased. 

 

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/lbrr/archives/cnmcs-plcng/cn32226-eng.pdf

 

Seems no relation between the law and crime in general at all.  Rates for most crime went up until years later.

[Hanaguma]

30 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

3 years gives a very good initial picture that you'd rather obviously ignore as it's just not with the narrative you've been posting

Funny thing happened after the assault weapons ban lapsed- the murder rate kept going down. Almost as if the ban had no impact...

[Kwasaki]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

 How about we look at my link? According to it, the homocide rate in Australia flatlined after the gun control legislation (your link shows that as well), before resuming the downward trend that already existed BEFORE the laws.   and overall violent crime (including robberies and armed robberies) actually INcreased. 

 

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/lbrr/archives/cnmcs-plcng/cn32226-eng.pdf

 

Seems no relation between the law and crime in general at all.  Rates for most crime went up until years later.

What has Australia got do with America gun control, just another off topic.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Funny thing happened after the assault weapons ban lapsed- the murder rate kept going down. Almost as if the ban had no impact...

Its hilarious that you first deflect the study because you said it came from Feinstein. Then when I point out its a Justice Dept study you say its too early to tell. Now you say its funny as the figures kept going down. 

[still kicking]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Funny thing happened after the assault weapons ban lapsed- the murder rate kept going down. Almost as if the ban had no impact...

 

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Funny thing happened after the assault weapons ban lapsed- the murder rate kept going down. Almost as if the ban had no impact...

What weapons ban lapsed? I live here where do you live have you ever been here? No I guess not 

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, still kicking said:

 

What weapons ban lapsed? I live here where do you live have you ever been here? No I guess not 

I meant the one in the US that some politicians are trying to revive. 

 

And yes I have been to Oz on three occasions. Brisbane, Sydney, and Tasmania.

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

What has Australia got do with America gun control, just another off topic.

Many Americans point to the supposed results of the Australian experiment in trying to remove guns from citizens. The two are often compared.

[still kicking]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I meant the one in the US that some politicians are trying to revive. 

 

And yes I have been to Oz on three occasions. Brisbane, Sydney, and Tasmania.

And I lived here for 45 years 

[ozimoron]

8 hours ago, still kicking said:

• includes suicide 

A 100% reduction in mass shootings for almost 30 years now. Over 30% reduction in total homicides 1996 to 2013.

 

Here's another chart for you

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/murder-homicide-rate

Edited April 11, 2023 by ozimoron

[Hanaguma]

6 hours ago, ozimoron said:

A 100% reduction in mass shootings for almost 30 years now. Over 30% reduction in total homicides 1996 to 2013.

 

Here's another chart for you

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/murder-homicide-rate

I dont think that is quite the win that you think it is.  Homicides were decreasing BEFORE 1996, strangely stayed level for 5-6 years after, then resumed the previous decrease.  This shows that the law had no measurable impact on murder rates in Oz. 

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

A 100% reduction in mass shootings for almost 30 years now. Over 30% reduction in total homicides 1996 to 2013.

 

Here's another chart for you

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/murder-homicide-rate

Proof of effectiveness and here's some more:

 

Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides.

https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

I dont think that is quite the win that you think it is.  Homicides were decreasing BEFORE 1996, strangely stayed level for 5-6 years after, then resumed the previous decrease.  This shows that the law had no measurable impact on murder rates in Oz. 

Incorrect. There can be many explanations, 'this shows....' is not correct.

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Proof of effectiveness and here's some more:

 

Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides.

https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365

In other words, trends continued.  Gun homicides decreased, yet overall homicides did not, which suggests that those who used guns previously simply changed to other weapons to commit their crimes. Ditto with suicides. Lack of guns didn't stop the people who wanted to end their lives. 

 

If you look at the chart provided by Still Kicking up the page, the overall number of murders did not change at all for 5 or 6 years after the gun law was passed. 

 

It DID stop most mass killings, but did nothing substantial to reduce crime/murder overall.  In other words, ineffective. 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

In other words, trends continued.  Gun homicides decreased, yet overall homicides did not, which suggests that those who used guns previously simply changed to other weapons to commit their crimes. Ditto with suicides. Lack of guns didn't stop the people who wanted to end their lives. 

 

If you look at the chart provided by Still Kicking up the page, the overall number of murders did not change at all for 5 or 6 years after the gun law was passed. 

 

It DID stop most mass killings, but did nothing substantial to reduce crime/murder overall.  In other words, ineffective. 

"A 100% reduction in mass shootings for almost 30 years now. Over 30% reduction in total homicides 1996 to 2013"

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Dart12]

On 4/11/2023 at 1:40 PM, jvs said:

Would you agree that if you want to kill a bunch of people at once

a gun is a lot more convenient then say,a knife?

Your question doesn't change the data that exists.

It's just an attempt to use diversion to take away from the real, and actual, facts on the subject.

Not to mention that over 55% of the deaths caused by guns are suicides, not homocides.

You can't just ignore facts because you don' t like something.  

I get it though, these are exploited news stories of gruesome events that are emotion evoking.






 

[LosLobo]

11 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

Your question doesn't change the data that exists.

It's just an attempt to use diversion to take away from the real, and actual, facts on the subject.

Not to mention that over 55% of the deaths caused by guns are suicides, not homocides.

You can't just ignore facts because you don' t like something.  

I get it though, these are exploited news stories of gruesome events that are emotion evoking.
 

Yet, you ignore these facts :

 

The topic is gun deaths.

 

Banning guns (i e excluding military police farmers etc) will reduce gun deaths.

 

Yes people can still jump from buildings. use knives etc for suicide.

 

Guns are not existential and banning is relatively easy compared to buildings and knives etc.

 

[jvs]

1 hour ago, Dart12 said:

Not to mention that over 55% of the deaths caused by guns are suicides, not homocides.

How many people use a baseball bat to commit suicide?

No use talking if you are convinced guns are needed in society.

All over the world,less guns means less gun deaths,it is easy if you want to see it.

NRA propaganda works very well but you have to also be willing to see this.

[Hanaguma]

51 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Yet, you ignore these facts :

 

The topic is gun deaths.

 

Banning guns (i e excluding military police farmers etc) will reduce gun deaths.

 

Yes people can still jump from buildings. use knives etc for suicide.

 

Guns are not existential and banning is relatively easy compared to buildings and knives etc.

 

...and this will never happen.  Once you come to that realization perhaps you can think of some actual workable ideas on how to reduce gun violence.  

[transam]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

...and this will never happen.  Once you come to that realization perhaps you can think of some actual workable ideas on how to reduce gun violence.  

Yes, ban hobby and unnecessary gun ownership, save lives.......................

[Hanaguma]

13 minutes ago, transam said:

Yes, ban hobby and unnecessary gun ownership, save lives.......................

...as defined by?  Again, never going to happen in the US. They are too far gone in the hobby and sport and constitutional aspects of firearms.  The juice ain't worth the squeeze.  

[pegman]

On 4/7/2023 at 8:25 AM, Mark Nothing said:

The 2nd Amendment restricts the right of the government from infringing on the right of citizens to keep and bear arms.  It is not a priviledge bestowed on citizens.

 

Subtle but profound.

 

The government needs to abide by the Constitution and cease and desist.

Explain how the Assault Weapons Ban was law then? It may still be if war criminal Bush had not let it lapse