UK paper self-assessment tax returns

[OJAS]

No longer is it possible to download and print off from the GOV.UK website the main SA100 form. Instead you're now required to spend ages calling HMRC for a paper version and then wait a further age for this to show up in the post here in LOS!

 

Ironically, all supplementary forms - including SA109 which is of particular relevance to UK tax non-residents - are still available for downloading and printing off.

 

Such is "progress", HMRC-style, I suppose!????

 

https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-return-forms

 

[doctormann]

Just do it online.

 

Anything that requires snail mail from UK to Thailand, or vice versa, seems very slow and unreliable.  A recent letter from my UK bank took over six weeks to reach me!

 

Even using registered mail to UK seems not totally reliable.  I sent a registered letter to IPC at the beginning of March - never appeared on the Royal Mail tracker, even though it was actually delivered.

 

Unfortunately, when dealing with gov.uk, you often seem to get the choice between phoning them - and getting put on hold for ages - or using snail mail and waiting a few weeks for a response.  Why they cannot set up a secure electronic mail system just defeats me.  We are in the 21st Century after all!

 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

No longer is it possible to download and print off from the GOV.UK website the main SA100 form. Instead you're now required to spend ages calling HMRC for a paper version and then wait a further age for this to show up in the post here in LOS!

Normally, five days or so is all the post takes from UK to Bangkok, hardly an age.

[topt]

1 hour ago, doctormann said:

Just do it online.

If you mean the tax return it is not possible if you need to fill in SA109 unless you pay for approved commercial software.

[doctormann]

33 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Normally, five days or so is all the post takes from UK to Bangkok, hardly an age.

Not my experience - usually takes at least two weeks.  Mind you, our local postal service is terrible!

 

Going in the other direction, you might get a 5-day delivery time if you use EMS, which is expensive.  Registered airmail is a crap shoot - can be as fast as EMS if you get lucky but often seems to get stuck at Suvarnabhumi, waiting for the appropriate mail container to fill up.  2 weeks seems more typical.

 

This from Thailand Post:

 

[Liverpool Lou]

19 minutes ago, doctormann said:

This from Thailand Post:

 

Those are called cover-their-ar5e delivery times, they are not typically representative of actual delivery times.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Normally, five days or so is all the post takes from UK to Bangkok, hardly an age.

That's not the point. Why make it more difficult for people in the first place?

[CFCjeff]

 

So i can download SA105 and SA 109, but i now have to phone the tax office to get them to sent me THE SA100 to my Thai address.

This makes no sense at all unless i have misunderstood.

[CFCjeff]

Ive just noticed that on the uk gov website , there is a SA100 year 2023 that can be printed off, it says for reference only  but it looks the same as previos years.

[Liverpool Lou]

15 hours ago, RayC said:

17 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Normally, five days or so is all the post takes from UK to Bangkok, hardly an age.

That's not the point. Why make it more difficult for people in the first place?

It is the point when the poster to whom I responded claimed that post from the UK to Thailand takes an age.  It doesn't.

[Pumpuynarak]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Beg away but, unfortunately for you, you do not get to decide the point of my comments.  

 

Neither do you get to alter comments that I posted when you quote them, the forum rules do not permit that.  

What are you on about ? My experience with regular post (monthly pension payslips) i receive from the UK tells me it takes an age, thats fact not fiction.

 

Have a nice day.

[onthedarkside]

An altered quote and reply have been removed

[OJAS]

21 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Normally, five days or so is all the post takes from UK to Bangkok, hardly an age.

You're kidding, right? But if you're not, then kindly explain to me how come I didn't receive DWP's letter dated 8/1/23 requesting a freshly witnessed Life Certificate until 9/2/23! And a letter dated 27/2/23 from HMRC in connection with my 2021-22 SA tax return until 30/3/23!! A tad longer than 5 days in each case, I think!!!

 

[OJAS]

18 hours ago, CFCjeff said:

Ive just noticed that on the uk gov website , there is a SA100 year 2023 that can be printed off, it says for reference only  but it looks the same as previos years.

Can you provide a suitable link, please? Certainly I can find no mention of this in the link I posted in my OP unless I'm missing something.

 

[OJAS]

23 hours ago, doctormann said:

Unfortunately, when dealing with gov.uk, you often seem to get the choice between phoning them - and getting put on hold for ages - or using snail mail and waiting a few weeks for a response.  Why they cannot set up a secure electronic mail system just defeats me.  We are in the 21st Century after all!

The particularly galling thing as far as HMRC at least are concerned, is that the Government Gateway did at one time include a secure electronic messaging facility which was subsequently abruptly pulled for some ridiculous reason without any forewarning or explanation. Another example of "progress" HMRC-style, I think!

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by OJAS

[OJAS]

22 hours ago, topt said:

If you mean the tax return it is not possible if you need to fill in SA109 unless you pay for approved commercial software.

Quite. I gather that the going rate for commercial software providers is £25-£30. Considerably more than the standard snail mail cost of sending a paper return from Thailand to the UK.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by OJAS

[OJAS]

21 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Those are called cover-their-ar5e delivery times, they are not typically representative of actual delivery times.

The only way in which your assertions regarding actual delivery times can, I think, be definitively verified one way or the other would be UK originators to (1) send all their correspondence to us using some tracking facility, and (2) inform us of the relevant tracking number so as to enable us to work out where in the delivery chain delays actually occur. Unfortunately, though, UK government departments (including HMRC) choose to do neither in our case.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by OJAS

[RayC]

6 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It is the point when the poster to whom I responded claimed that post from the UK to Thailand takes an age.  It doesn't.

Well, that depends what you define as "an age".

 

In any event, the OP was comparing the time taken to download a form (+/-5 mins max) with the time taken to phone HMRC and receive form via the post (min 5 days).

 

Hardly an improvement which is the MAIN point.

Edited April 10, 2023 by RayC
Delete additional worf

[nigelforbes]

I can't be bothered to read through all the bickering so I'll do a quick knowledge dump.

 

UK Non-Residents must file a paper return or have the software needed to file the return. There are several organizations in the UK that will file the return for you under these circumstances, free of charge, here's one.  https://taxvol.org.uk/index.php/our-services/our-advice-service/#:~:text=How do I get help,Help will call you back.

[CFCjeff]

6 hours ago, OJAS said:

Can you provide a suitable link, please? Certainly I can find no mention of this in the link I posted in my OP unless I'm missing something.

 

 

SA100_tax_return_English_2023.pdf

[treetops]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:59 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

Normally, five days or so is all the post takes from UK to Bangkok, hardly an age.

The OP never mentioned Bangkok.  He's maybe one of the 60 odd million residents who live elsewhere in Thailand and experiences their often less than stellar postal delivery service.

[quake]

On 4/10/2023 at 2:31 PM, OJAS said:

Quite. I gather that the going rate for commercial software providers is £25-£30. Considerably more than the standard snail mail cost of sending a paper return from Thailand to the UK.

 

I paid 17.94 for 2021-2022 tax year.

Also you 100% know it has been received.

 

the latest 2022-2023 is 18.60 including vat.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by quake

[OJAS]

On 4/10/2023 at 4:09 PM, nigelforbes said:

UK Non-Residents must file a paper return or have the software needed to file the return. There are several organizations in the UK that will file the return for you under these circumstances, free of charge, here's one.  https://taxvol.org.uk/index.php/our-services/our-advice-service/#:~:text=How do I get help,Help will call you back.

Despite HMRC's dire warnings, though, is there really any need in practice to enlist the services of a commercial software provider in completing the SA109 supplementary pages as part of an online tax return unless, in the tax year to which that return relates, you have:-

 

(1) paid income tax to the Thai Revenue Dept (RD) in respect of the UK State Pension and/or a UK private sector occupational pension, neither of which are covered by the UK/Thailand Double Taxation Treaty (DTT) (mine is a public sector (civil service, military, etc) occupational pension which is covered by the DTT, and I have not paid any tax for my State Pension to the Thai RD), and/or

 

(2) sold property in the UK (the issue here being that capital gains tax is assessed on the basis of the gain made on the property since its original purchase date in the case of UK tax residents, but only since 5/4/15 in the case of UK tax non-residents)?

 

Just to inform HMRC that I (a) have a home in Thailand, (b) am entitled to claim the personal allowance on the grounds of both being a British national and having been employed in the service of the British Crown, and (c) spent x number of days in the UK during the tax year in question - which is basically all the info I've hitherto been providing in my paper SA109 supplementary returns - really wouldn't IMHO justify the outlay of c.£18 for the services of a commercial software supplier, unless either (1) or (2) above applied, of course.

 

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

Despite HMRC's dire warnings, though, is there really any need in practice to enlist the services of a commercial software provider in completing the SA109 supplementary pages as part of an online tax return unless, in the tax year to which that return relates, you have:-

 

(1) paid income tax to the Thai Revenue Dept (RD) in respect of the UK State Pension and/or a UK private sector occupational pension, neither of which are covered by the UK/Thailand Double Taxation Treaty (DTT) (mine is a public sector (civil service, military, etc) occupational pension which is covered by the DTT, and I have not paid any tax for my State Pension to the Thai RD), and/or

 

(2) sold property in the UK (the issue here being that capital gains tax is assessed on the basis of the gain made on the property since its original purchase date in the case of UK tax residents, but only since 5/4/15 in the case of UK tax non-residents)?

 

Just to inform HMRC that I (a) have a home in Thailand, (b) am entitled to claim the personal allowance on the grounds of both being a British national and having been employed in the service of the British Crown, and (c) spent x number of days in the UK during the tax year in question - which is basically all the info I've hitherto been providing in my paper SA109 supplementary returns - really wouldn't IMHO justify the outlay of c.£18 for the services of a commercial software supplier, unless either (1) or (2) above applied, of course.

 

Each to their own decision on this point I think. For me it's a binary decision, either you are or are not required to file a return. If you are, file it using the easiest and cheapest method you can find, the free service I mentioned above would be my choice. That said, I have UK income I have to declare so I use a tax accountant in the UK to handle everything for me. If anyone needs a reliable and capable tax accountant, feel free to ask me for contact details. Unusually she will handle the affairs' of expats living in Thailand which in the past has been an obstacle for me.

[OJAS]

On 4/10/2023 at 8:42 PM, CFCjeff said:

 

SA100_tax_return_English_2023.pdf 1.22 MB · 8 downloads

And the relevant link in case anyone is interested is:

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1148675/SA100_tax_return_English_2023.pdf

 

[RayC]

A thought crosses my mind (a rare and dangerous occurrence).

 

If you use a VPN is it possible to set the location to the UK and then file your return on-line i.e. without the expense of buying 3rd party software?

 

Not tried it myself so no idea if this will work.

[topt]

21 hours ago, RayC said:

A thought crosses my mind (a rare and dangerous occurrence).

 

If you use a VPN is it possible to set the location to the UK and then file your return on-line i.e. without the expense of buying 3rd party software?

 

Not tried it myself so no idea if this will work.

If you don't file SA109 or need other supplementary pages you can file online probably without a VPN as you would do in the UK if normally tax resident.

 

The problem is SA109 (and others) are not available for online completion direct to HMRC except via commercial software.

[OJAS]

22 hours ago, RayC said:

A thought crosses my mind (a rare and dangerous occurrence).

 

If you use a VPN is it possible to set the location to the UK and then file your return on-line i.e. without the expense of buying 3rd party software?

 

Not tried it myself so no idea if this will work.

You can definitely file a return online from Thailand using the standard package without the need for a VPN, as I did myself yesterday! However as @topt has intimated it will not be possible to avoid forking out for the services of a commercial software supplier if you consider it necessary to include the SA109 supplementary pages in your online return, whether or not filed using a VPN.