Military exercises suggest China is getting ‘ready to launch a war against Taiwan,’ island’s foreign minister tells CNN

[Scott]

Troll post reported and removed.

[Tug]

Hopefully no war,personally I don’t think China wants to kill trade with the USA and the west they need the revenue,much to profitable .as for their exercise around Taiwan its a golden opportunity to observe their readiness ,techniques,skills,signals,and all the things that would make an invasion possible.when satellites start showing fleets of invasion craft and troops/equipment at the ready then and only then take this as more than a mind game in my humble opinion 

[gargamon]

7 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Taiwan is Chinese. 

When exactly was Taiwan part of China? 

[gargamon]

5 hours ago, talahtnut said:

taiwan is recognised internationally as Chinese,

even by Washinton.

 

Nonsense. Maybe Russia, N. Korea. 

[tgw]

8 hours ago, placeholder said:

As much as I hate to agree with vandenventer about anything, i think there is a good chance that China will go ahead and do it. They see that the US is far more antagonistic to China than it was under the Trump administration. Trump may have talked big because he's a blowhard, but the steps he authorized didn't amount to much compared to what the Biden administration has done.  And the Biden administration has committed itself to strengthening Taiwan. So the longer China waits the harder it's going to get to invade. I just hope the Taiwanese have their chip factories mined and ready to be blown up if China does go ahead with it.

completely unrealistic.

 

Taiwan has been fortifying, training and buying weapons for over 70 years to defend against a Chinese invasion.

 

To prove my point, I suggest you use google satellite view and check out Taiwanese islands and coastline and look for bunkers. Some of these islands seem to consist only of fortifications.

I'm pretty sure Taiwan itself is akin to Swiss cheese with underground bases everywhere and numerous coastline defenses. Just have a look please.

 

Launching an invasion on a prepared Taiwan that is equipped with modern weapons is pretty much suicide, especially if Taiwan is supported by the USA.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, tgw said:

completely unrealistic.

 

Taiwan has been fortifying, training and buying weapons for over 70 years to defend against a Chinese invasion.

 

To prove my point, I suggest you use google satellite view and check out Taiwanese islands and coastline and look for bunkers. Some of these islands seem to consist only of fortifications.

I'm pretty sure Taiwan itself is akin to Swiss cheese with underground bases everywhere and numerous coastline defenses. Just have a look please.

 

Launching an invasion on a prepared Taiwan that is equipped with modern weapons is pretty much suicide, especially if Taiwan is supported by the USA.

First off, I think that a megalomaniac like Xi wants to crown his reign with the reunification of China. It certainly won't be easy

"China will not attempt to invade Taiwan before the end of the decade because it understands the high cost, the senior Pentagon official in charge of Indo-Pacific security said Thursday.

“Deterrence is real; deterrence is strong” today and tomorrow, said Ely Ratner, the assistant secretary for the Indo-Pacific. The United States can likely deter Beijing from attacking the self-governing island 100 miles off the Chinese coast, he said.

https://news.usni.org/2023/03/02/high-cost-of-taiwan-invasion-will-dissuade-china-pentagon-official-says

But if Xi decides to invade, who is going to stop him? Under Xi, the Chinese system of government doesn't exactly encourage robust dissent within the top ranks. In fact, Xi has been busy appointing loyalists everywhere including the armed forces.

[tonbridgebrit]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:45 PM, Seppius said:

I believe its sabre-rattling in response to American drills, and their anti-Chinese rhetoric. They will not invade, just showing that they can

And indeed, this sabre-rattling, it's best if the US stays out of it.    As in, Washington should order it's warships to be away from the area.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

And indeed, this sabre-rattling, it's best if the US stays out of it.    As in, Washington should order it's warships to be away from the area.

Does the govt. of Taiwan agree with you about that?

[tonbridgebrit]

On 4/12/2023 at 4:15 PM, Seppius said:

I respect your view, but by invading they risk war with the US

 

Joe Biden has again said US forces would defend Taiwan in the event of a Chinese invasion, in his most explicit statement so far on the issue.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/19/joe-biden-repeats-claim-that-us-forces-would-defend-taiwan-if-china-attacked

 

So America will fight a war against China, if China invades Taiwan ?  

The Russians have invaded Ukraine, and Washington has wisely not declared war on Russia. Yes, we all know that sending US/NATO soldiers to Ukraine will be suicidal, it will lead to nuclear war. That's because Russia has still got it's nukes. Hence, NATO has not got involved in Ukraine.

What about Taiwan ?  Will  America fight China ?   China has nukes. Why refuse to fight Russia over Ukraine, but, but, go ahead and fight China because of Taiwan ?  China has got nukes.  They've certainly got more nukes than North Korea.

So, planet earth ends by nuclear destruction because of Ukraine, that's called a waste. But planet earth ends by nukes because a load of Chinese in China are going to fight Chinese in Taiwan, well, that's worth it. It's worth ending planet earth ?
 

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

So America will fight a war against China, if China invades Taiwan ?  

The Russians have invaded Ukraine, and Washington has wisely not declared war on Russia. Yes, we all know that sending US/NATO soldiers to Ukraine will be suicidal, it will lead to nuclear war. That's because Russia has still got it's nukes. Hence, NATO has not got involved in Ukraine.

What about Taiwan ?  Will  America fight China ?   China has nukes. Why refuse to fight Russia over Ukraine, but, but, go ahead and fight China because of Taiwan ?  China has got nukes.  They've certainly got more nukes than North Korea.

So, planet earth ends by nuclear destruction because of Ukraine, that's called a waste. But planet earth ends by nukes because a load of Chinese in China are going to fight Chinese in Taiwan, well, that's worth it. It's worth ending planet earth ?
 

You think the Chinese are suicidal? That they would use nukes even if it meant their total destruction? You must have a very low opinion of the Chinese leadership.

[eisfeld]

6 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

So America will fight a war against China, if China invades Taiwan ?  

They've commited themselves by law to defending Taiwan should China invade, for better or worse.

 

7 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

So, planet earth ends by nuclear destruction because of Ukraine, that's called a waste. But planet earth ends by nukes because a load of Chinese in China are going to fight Chinese in Taiwan, well, that's worth it. It's worth ending planet earth ?

I don't think any of the current leaders are that crazy. They know full well that using nukes would spell their own doom - nothing to gain there.

[tonbridgebrit]

On 4/12/2023 at 4:17 PM, vandeventer said:

Yes, spell them out so we all can have a good laugh. You can't make friends with China as they are ready for war with the USA, open your eyes.

There's already a war between USA and China ?   America right now, is still importing vast amounts of cheap Chinese goods per month, the trade deficit per month is still huge.  Obama, Trump, or Biden, I think it doesn't actually matter. The huge monthly deficit is still there.

On a side note, notice how Europe has not actually totally stopped buying Russian oil and/or gas.  Are people suppose to condemn China and India for importiing Russian oil ?  What if China and India were to actually boycott Russian oil ?  And go and buy oil from Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Iran, etc.  That will surely send the world oil price through the roof ?     ????

[eisfeld]

1 minute ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Are people suppose to condemn China and India for importiing Russian oil ?

Yes?

 

1 minute ago, tonbridgebrit said:

What if China and India were to actually boycott Russian oil ?  And go and buy oil from Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Iran, etc.  That will surely send the world oil price through the roof ?

Drastic measures will come with negative consequences. At the same time you can't let bullies just roam free and cave to every aggression. Neither extreme is a solution and so we see what is happening right now: a middleground between these two where western countries reduced consumption of russian oil by a big amount. This doesn't put the world economy into too much stress but puts pressure on russia. As time goes by and as alternative sources for western energy needs are established the consumption of russian oil will be further reduced.

[tonbridgebrit]

On 4/12/2023 at 5:00 PM, talahtnut said:

Taiwan is Chinese.  The US planned war with China using Taiwan

as a weak excuse.  The US admin is run by insane globalists.

 

On 4/12/2023 at 8:35 PM, talahtnut said:

I see your point, but China is Taiwans biggest trade partner,

and Chinese philosphy is to trade internationally and put

all differences aside, they have become the worlds most

respected peace negotiators. However, China is preparing

for whatever the US is going to throw at them.

Washington wants to use Taiwan as an excuse to fight a war against China, if or when it does fight a war against China. Yes, I think that is the case.

And trade between China and Taiwan.  Yes, if China really actually wanted to harm Taiwan,  China would simply destroy Taiwan economically.  China can do that by simply stopping trade with Taiwan.

I say with a smirk, bit like England stopping trade with the Isle of Wight.   ????

 

[riclag]

11 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

So America will fight a war against China, if China invades Taiwan ?  

The Russians have invaded Ukraine, and Washington has wisely not declared war on Russia. Yes, we all know that sending US/NATO soldiers to Ukraine will be suicidal, it will lead to nuclear war. That's because Russia has still got it's nukes. Hence, NATO has not got involved in Ukraine.

What about Taiwan ?  Will  America fight China ?   China has nukes. Why refuse to fight Russia over Ukraine, but, but, go ahead and fight China because of Taiwan ?  China has got nukes.  They've certainly got more nukes than North Korea.

So, planet earth ends by nuclear destruction because of Ukraine, that's called a waste. But planet earth ends by nukes because a load of Chinese in China are going to fight Chinese in Taiwan, well, that's worth it. It's worth ending planet earth ?
 

Well said !  Thanks for sticking up for Earth as we know it!

If I were a teacher I would grade the 

war mongers a D-  in negotiations efforts.

[tonbridgebrit]

On 4/13/2023 at 12:49 AM, gargamon said:

When exactly was Taiwan part of China? 

So, somebody said that Taiwan is part of China, and you're saying "when exactly was Taiwan part of China ?" .

Okay, how was Taiwan created ?  In 1945, World War Two ended, Japan surrendered, and gave Taiwan back to China.  Note that, Japan beat China in a war in the 1890s, and Taiwan became part of the Empire of Japan.

In 1945, mainland China was called "Republic of China" and indeed, both mainland China and Taiwan were in a country called Republic of China, in 1945.
And, in 1949,  Chiang Kai Shek and the Nationalists lost the civil war in mainland China, and fled to Taiwan. And in 1949,  Mao Zedong announced China's new name as "Peoples' Republic of China".  China is still called that today.  And when Chiang Kai Shek went to Taiwan, he became the founding father of modern day Taiwan.  Taiwan today is still called,  "Republic of China, Taiwan"  .

No matter how you see it, you've still got to accept that between 1945 and 1949, both China and Taiwan were in a country called Republic of China.  Taiwan still is.


And, what if, in 1949, what if Mao Zedong had not of given China it's new name ?  Then China today would still be Republic of China.  And, and, prior to 1949, what if China had of atacked Taiwan ?  Prior to 1949, Mao taking Shanghai and Mao taking Taiwan would have been the same thing, surely ?
And, Republic of China fighting Republic of China is a civil war, surely ?  Why get involved in somebody's civil war ?   ????

[vandeventer]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:15 PM, Seppius said:

I respect your view, but by invading they risk war with the US

 

Joe Biden has again said US forces would defend Taiwan in the event of a Chinese invasion, in his most explicit statement so far on the issue.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/19/joe-biden-repeats-claim-that-us-forces-would-defend-taiwan-if-china-attacked

 

Biden said that he will defend Taiwan 4 times but the WH pulled it back every time, how weak. This is why China may attack Taiwan very soon. Biden should be spending a huge amount money on defense not only for America but for his friends that have USA weapon systems, without worrying about global warming.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Biden said that he will defend Taiwan 4 times but the WH pulled it back every time, how weak. This is why China may attack Taiwan very soon. Biden should be spending a huge amount money on defense not only for America but for his friends that have USA weapon systems, without worrying about global warming.

In fact, not only has the US appropriated extra funds for Taiwan, but it has also been pushing the Taiwanese to profit from the lessons of recent conflicts and invest heavily in asymmetric warfare rather than continue purchasing more conventional weaponry.. Taiwan can't possibly match China in brute military strength. And it needs to spend a lot more on its own defense. Taiwan is not a poor nation, It can afford to raise expenditures considerably.

[tonbridgebrit]

1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

And indeed, this sabre-rattling, it's best if the US stays out of it.    As in, Washington should order it's warships to be away from the area.

 

55 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Does the govt. of Taiwan agree with you about that?

The Taiwan government does not agree with me. So we're suppose to do what the Taiwan government wants us to do ?
Look, let's say there's a place in the Middle East that wants our soldiers there, to defend it ?  Does that mean we should send soldiers ? 

I think British soldiers should only be used to defend Britain, British soil.  Why should British soldiers fight and die in a war thousands of miles away ?  And indeed, to stop one lot of Chinese fighting another lot of Chinese. If these people want to fight, let them.
In Africa, Middle East, Far East, let them. I just don't want to see any of our own risking their lives.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, tonbridgebrit said:

 

The Taiwan government does not agree with me. So we're suppose to do what the Taiwan government wants us to do ?
Look, let's say there's a place in the Middle East that wants our soldiers there, to defend it ?  Does that mean we should send soldiers ? 

I think British soldiers should only be used to defend Britain, British soil.  Why should British soldiers fight and die in a war thousands of miles away ?  And indeed, to stop one lot of Chinese fighting another lot of Chinese. If these people want to fight, let them.
In Africa, Middle East, Far East, let them. I just don't want to see any of our own risking their lives.

Well, for one thing, Taiwan Semiconductor is probably the most advanced chipmaker in the world. So keeping that capability from China is worth it. Especially given the dark turn that Chinese governance has taken with the ascent of Xi.

[tonbridgebrit]

44 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Biden said that he will defend Taiwan 4 times but the WH pulled it back every time, how weak. This is why China may attack Taiwan very soon. Biden should be spending a huge amount money on defense not only for America but for his friends that have USA weapon systems, without worrying about global warming.

 

36 minutes ago, placeholder said:

In fact, not only has the US appropriated extra funds for Taiwan, but it has also been pushing the Taiwanese to profit from the lessons of recent conflicts and invest heavily in asymmetric warfare rather than continue purchasing more conventional weaponry.. Taiwan can't possibly match China in brute military strength. And it needs to spend a lot more on its own defense. Taiwan is not a poor nation, It can afford to raise expenditures considerably.

I think we should bear in mind a few points. So, Biden should spend more money on defense for America ?  Well, this money has to be raised from tax-payer dollars in America. By the way, defense contractors (these are the guys who produce the weapons) make a profit when the US government orders/buys the stuff.

And, places like Saudi Arabia and Taiwan, all that American weaponry (as in combat jets, helicopters, missiles, missile defence systems, etc, etc) is sold to them. Yes, these are valuable and profitable deals for the defence contractors. Cynics will say that the main point is for profit-making companies to lobby the US government, and get the big contracts to generate a big profit.

Edited April 15, 2023 by tonbridgebrit

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

 

I think we should bear in mind a few points. So, Biden should spend more money on defense for America ?  Well, this money has to be raised from tax-payer dollars in America. By the way, defense contractors (these are the guys who produce the weapobns) make a profit when the US government orders/buys the stuff.

And, places like Saudi Arabia and Taiwan, all that American weaponry (as in combat jets, helicopters, missiles, missile defence systems, etc, etc) is sold to them. Yes, these are valuable and profitable deals for the defence contractors. Cynics will say that the main point is for profit-making companies to lobby the US government, and get the big contracts to generate a big profit.

Profits are made by private parties from all sorts of programs and activities. Does that make them nefarious?

Edited April 15, 2023 by placeholder

[tonbridgebrit]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

You think the Chinese are suicidal? That they would use nukes even if it meant their total destruction? You must have a very low opinion of the Chinese leadership.

I can very easily turn that around, and say "do you think the Americans are insane and suicidal ? "  .
Washington does know, I think, that nuclear destruction will happen in America as well as China.

Are the Americans in the White House insane ?  They won't fight a war against Russia, because they don't want to get nuked by Russia.  But, against China, getting nuked by China is worth it, in order to defend a load of Chinese on some island off the coast of China ?

Sorry, that's not insanity, that's inconsistency.    ????

[gargamon]

2 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

No matter how you see it, you've still got to accept that between 1945 and 1949, both China and Taiwan were in a country called Republic of China.  Taiwan still is.

Sorry. Being associated with another country for 3 or 4 years doesn't make you part of that country in perpetuity. 

[chacha boom]

44 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Sorry. Being associated with another country for 3 or 4 years doesn't make you part of that country in perpetuity. 

Here's a summary of the history of China and Taiwan over the last 1,000 years:

 

10th-13th centuries: Taiwan remains largely unexplored and underdeveloped, inhabited primarily by indigenous Austronesian peoples with minimal contact with mainland China.

 

13th century: Chinese fishermen and merchants begin to establish settlements along the coastal regions of Taiwan, but no formal government administration is set up.

 

Late 14th century: Ming dynasty establishes control over the island of Taiwan, mostly in the coastal areas.

 

1624: The Dutch East India Company establishes a trading post in southwestern Taiwan, beginning a period of Dutch colonization.

 

1662: Ming loyalist and military leader, Koxinga (Zheng Chenggong), expels the Dutch and establishes the Kingdom of Tungning, with the hope of using Taiwan as a base to launch a campaign against the Qing dynasty in mainland China.

 

1683: The Qing dynasty conquers Taiwan, incorporating it as a part of Fujian province.

 

1895: Following the First Sino-Japanese War, China cedes Taiwan to Japan as part of the Treaty of Shimonoseki.

 

1945: Japan surrenders at the end of World War II, and the Republic of China (ROC), led by Chiang Kai-shek's Kuomintang (KMT) party, assumes control of Taiwan.

 

1949: The Chinese Civil War ends with the Communist Party of China, led by Mao Zedong, establishing the People's Republic of China (PRC) on the mainland. Chiang Kai-shek and the KMT retreat to Taiwan, where they establish the ROC government-in-exile.

[gargamon]

2 hours ago, chacha boom said:

Here's a summary of the history of China and Taiwan over the last 1,000 years:

 

10th-13th centuries: Taiwan remains largely unexplored and underdeveloped, inhabited primarily by indigenous Austronesian peoples with minimal contact with mainland China.

 

13th century: Chinese fishermen and merchants begin to establish settlements along the coastal regions of Taiwan, but no formal government administration is set up.

 

Late 14th century: Ming dynasty establishes control over the island of Taiwan, mostly in the coastal areas.

 

1624: The Dutch East India Company establishes a trading post in southwestern Taiwan, beginning a period of Dutch colonization.

 

1662: Ming loyalist and military leader, Koxinga (Zheng Chenggong), expels the Dutch and establishes the Kingdom of Tungning, with the hope of using Taiwan as a base to launch a campaign against the Qing dynasty in mainland China.

 

1683: The Qing dynasty conquers Taiwan, incorporating it as a part of Fujian province.

 

1895: Following the First Sino-Japanese War, China cedes Taiwan to Japan as part of the Treaty of Shimonoseki.

 

1945: Japan surrenders at the end of World War II, and the Republic of China (ROC), led by Chiang Kai-shek's Kuomintang (KMT) party, assumes control of Taiwan.

 

1949: The Chinese Civil War ends with the Communist Party of China, led by Mao Zedong, establishing the People's Republic of China (PRC) on the mainland. Chiang Kai-shek and the KMT retreat to Taiwan, where they establish the ROC government-in-exile.

And which of those do you think implies that China should have dominance over Taiwan? I could generate similar examples for many countries. 

[StayinThailand2much]

On 4/12/2023 at 9:42 AM, vandeventer said:

China may move sooner that later against Taiwan (...)

There has been talk that China may want to invade Taiwan before the 100th PRC anniversary. My bet, however, is before the 75th, i.e. 2024, with Xi in power.

[rabas]

15 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

I think British soldiers should only be used to defend Britain, British soil.  Why should British soldiers fight and die in a war thousands of miles away ?  And indeed, to stop one lot of Chinese fighting another lot of Chinese. If these people want to fight, let them.
In Africa, Middle East, Far East, let them. I just don't want to see any of our own risking their lives.

Lets say, for argument, that Britain's survival depended on some resource from some far away friendly nation. Never mind what, such dependencies are common nowadays. Knowing this, an antagonistic  foreign power invades said friendly country to halt export of said resource to Britain, thus endangering it's survival.

 

Would you then send troops far away to defend Britain?

 

That is exactly the situation for the free world, Taiwan, and China because of Taiwan's IC manufacturing dominance, where IC technology and even IC manufacturing technology is driven by the West and the US in particular. Also note that the Taiwan strait is a massively strategic trade route for Western bound goods and resources.

 

An attack on Taiwan is a direct call to war and has little to do with dubious CCP claims that Taiwan historically 'belongs' to mainland China, which it doesn't.

[Seppius]

 

Trumps thoughts about China are very interesting in this short part of his last interview

 

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6324651091112

[rabas]

12 hours ago, chacha boom said:

Here's a summary of the history of China and Taiwan over the last 1,000 years:

 

10th-13th centuries: Taiwan remains largely unexplored and underdeveloped, inhabited primarily by indigenous Austronesian peoples with minimal contact with mainland China.

 

13th century: Chinese fishermen and merchants begin to establish settlements along the coastal regions of Taiwan, but no formal government administration is set up.

 

Late 14th century: Ming dynasty establishes control over the island of Taiwan, mostly in the coastal areas.

 

1624: The Dutch East India Company establishes a trading post in southwestern Taiwan, beginning a period of Dutch colonization.

 

1662: Ming loyalist and military leader, Koxinga (Zheng Chenggong), expels the Dutch and establishes the Kingdom of Tungning, with the hope of using Taiwan as a base to launch a campaign against the Qing dynasty in mainland China.

 

1683: The Qing dynasty conquers Taiwan, incorporating it as a part of Fujian province.

 

1895: Following the First Sino-Japanese War, China cedes Taiwan to Japan as part of the Treaty of Shimonoseki.

 

1945: Japan surrenders at the end of World War II, and the Republic of China (ROC), led by Chiang Kai-shek's Kuomintang (KMT) party, assumes control of Taiwan.

 

1949: The Chinese Civil War ends with the Communist Party of China, led by Mao Zedong, establishing the People's Republic of China (PRC) on the mainland. Chiang Kai-shek and the KMT retreat to Taiwan, where they establish the ROC government-in-exile.

Best summary yet against CCP claims that Taiwan 'belongs' to mainland China.  Even the Great Northern and Southern Song dynasties had little to do with Taiwan. You do know that the Qing (Manchu) are from Manchuria not China and are not ethnic Chinese like the Han.