Condo purchase in teenage daughter's name - possible ? issues ?

[SGD]

I am a non Thai looking at purchasing some condos which are in the Thai quotas and I do not want to use a company.

 

I have a teenage daughter who will eventually inherit anyway and my limited understanding of Thai law is that she can own property in her own right.

 

However, I am concerned about the influence her mother, my ex wife, might have, if it became known that her daughter owner property.

 

In the west, I would simply have this covered off with a private mortgage / loan charged on the deed (chanote) and that would make getting further loans or a sale impossible but as a minor cannot enter into a legal agreement, that option is not available in Thailand.

 

Does a minor have to have a Thai looking out for the property or can a westerner do that, i.e. me ?

[CharlieKo]

51 minutes ago, SGD said:

Does a minor have to have a Thai looking out for the property or can a westerner do that, i.e. me ?

I think it depends if you have sole custody or shared custody with your ex wife? See a Lawyer.

[DudleySquat]

2 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

I think it depends if you have sole custody or shared custody with your ex wife? See a Lawyer.

It has nothing to do with his custody.  If the child is Thai, at 15 she can be the majority owner of a corporation. 

 

 

[CharlieKo]

1 minute ago, DudleySquat said:

It has nothing to do with his custody.  If the child is Thai, at 15 she can be the majority owner of a corporation. 

 

 

The OP said he doesn't want to go the company route! Though that might be the way to go.

[DudleySquat]

You enter into an agreement and division of shares. It's a legal entity with legal status.  It is neither the father nor the daughter. 

 

If you are American you can own the company 100 percent. 

[thaibeachlovers]

What happened to the legal ruling that farangs can't buy property in a Thai's name that was talked about some years ago? It was to stop farang's circumventing the law to buy property.

Was it never law, or have they just ignored it?

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

The OP said he doesn't want to go the company route! Though that might be the way to go.

The OP seems more worried about the influence of the family on her than the method of buying it, which seems reasonable to me.

 

My wife was totally controlled by her sister, so I have experience on such.

[SGD]

Thanks but to reiterate, I do not want to use a company.

 

I am very familiar with the bogus / illegal company structures and I have used them but not here. No dodgy nominee directors, no legal filings every so often, just simple direct ownership.

[scubascuba3]

Buy others condos in foreign quota instead, stress free, as long as you don't buy offplan 

[SGD]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The OP seems more worried about the influence of the family on her than the method of buying it, which seems reasonable to me.

 

My wife was totally controlled by her sister, so I have experience on such.

Both perhaps.

I am not going down a company route and I would prefer to remove the potential influence of my child's mother.

 

In an ideal situation, it would be put into my child's name and no-one would ever know, only to find out when either I chose to divulge it or upon my death.

I appreciate my child may need to go to a land office but that trip would be forgotten in the fullness of time even aged 15. What I do not want is the mother aware of the situation.

[SGD]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

Buy others condos in foreign quota instead, stress free, as long as you don't buy offplan 

Clearly but sometimes you do not have an option or quite simply, the discount for Thai ownership is so great as to make it a far better proposition.

 

Equally, there is estate planning with anything in my name which would not occur if the property were already in my child's name.

[scubascuba3]

9 minutes ago, SGD said:

Clearly but sometimes you do not have an option or quite simply, the discount for Thai ownership is so great as to make it a far better proposition.

 

Equally, there is estate planning with anything in my name which would not occur if the property were already in my child's name.

A Thai will, big deal, 5000 baht. Thai quota condos are always cheaper, for a reason, people don't want them, foreign quota are more in the demand, a better investment for your child

[ChipButty]

4 minutes ago, SGD said:

Both perhaps.

I am not going down a company route and I would prefer to remove the potential influence of my child's mother.

 

In an ideal situation, it would be put into my child's name and no-one would ever know, only to find out when either I chose to divulge it or upon my death.

I appreciate my child may need to go to a land office but that trip would be forgotten in the fullness of time even aged 15. What I do not want is the mother aware of the situation.

The one case I do know about, Was the mother had to be there at the land department during the transaction, I would say best to see a Lawyer, Or put them in your name under Foreign Freehold then make a will giving them to your daughter when the time comes, 

 

[SGD]

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

A Thai will, big deal, 5000 baht. Thai quota condos are always cheaper, for a reason, people don't want them, foreign quota are more in the demand, a better investment for your child

Risk anything to the Thai legal system and you are a fool.

I have been down the road to court before, I've seen wills "disappeared", I've seen corruption in the legal fraternity and nothing will stop them if you make life easy for them to steal, only 1 in 10,000 is half decent.

As for investments, then not everything is about capital appreciation. Yields are actually far more important and consequently higher on cheaper property.

[SGD]

6 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

The one case I do know about, Was the mother had to be there at the land department during the transaction, I would say best to see a Lawyer, Or put them in your name under Foreign Freehold then make a will giving them to your daughter when the time comes, 

 

A minor can own the property, the land, the chanote etc. but until they are aged 20 they cannot manage it themselves as they are minors and the Juvenile Court would need to approve any transaction. However, I do not see where there is a need for the mother (or another Thai) to be involved.

[ChipButty]

1 hour ago, SGD said:

A minor can own the property, the land, the chanote etc. but until they are aged 20 they cannot manage it themselves as they are minors and the Juvenile Court would need to approve any transaction. However, I do not see where there is a need for the mother (or another Thai) to be involved.

I can only tell you what I saw happen, 

[LukKrueng]

2 hours ago, SGD said:

Clearly but sometimes you do not have an option or quite simply, the discount for Thai ownership is so great as to make it a far better proposition.

 

Equally, there is estate planning with anything in my name which would not occur if the property were already in my child's name.

There is no such thing as foreign\Thai quota and no difference in price. The price is determined by demand\supply and the ability to negotiate. At any point that a foreigner wants to buy a unit, the condo management have to check the current situation - how many foreigners own units in the specific building, and if less than 49% they'll issue an official letter to the land office. It's not that units number X,y,z are in foreign quota and the rest are in Thai quota.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

the condo management have to check the current situation - how many foreigners own units in the specific building, and if less than 49% they'll issue an official letter to the land office.

The ownership levels are recorded by the Land Office.

The condo management play no part, and have no input in the process.

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, SGD said:

Does a minor have to have a Thai looking out for the property or can a westerner do that, i.e. me ?

Yes you can be the adult in charge of your daughters property, but sadly it is only with the consent of both parents. No loans are allowed on the property of a minor.

[ChipButty]

5 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

There is no such thing as foreign\Thai quota and no difference in price. The price is determined by demand\supply and the ability to negotiate. At any point that a foreigner wants to buy a unit, the condo management have to check the current situation - how many foreigners own units in the specific building, and if less than 49% they'll issue an official letter to the land office. It's not that units number X,y,z are in foreign quota and the rest are in Thai quota.

There was no difference in price in the project where we bought a condo, it was the same Thai or Farang, and still is, 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, SGD said:

I do not see where there is a need for the mother (or another Thai) to be involved.

Property manager of a minors property is only recorded with the consent of both parents.

No mother and father present = no deal at the land office.

[ChipButty]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Property manager of a minors property is only recorded with the consent of both parents.

No mother and father present = no deal at the land office.

Thats exactly what I witnessed and the mother had to be flown down here to Phuket

[JBChiangRai]

7 hours ago, DudleySquat said:

You enter into an agreement and division of shares. It's a legal entity with legal status.  It is neither the father nor the daughter. 

 

If you are American you can own the company 100 percent. 

You are talking about the Treaty of Amity.  It is forbidden for a TofA company to own property. You may be able to start the company 100% Thai owned, buy the property then convert it to TofA company, signing the declaration to say no property is owned, then reverse the process to sell the property as no Land Office here will transfer property into/out of a TofA company and if they find out afterwards, eg at sale time, you will lose the property risking jail at the same time. It just takes one jealous neighbor to dob you in and you lose the property.

 

We recently bought a house in my daughters name for University, it stayed in the developers name for 3 months until her 20th birthday.

[ChipButty]

once a child is the owner of the land, a child can NOT lease it to anyone EXCEPT with the authorization of the Court. You will find these limitations about real estate and children at clause 1574 of the Thai Commercial and Civil Code. Yours is 1574 (1).

[scubascuba3]

5 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

There is no such thing as foreign\Thai quota and no difference in price.

❌ Incorrect. In Pattaya for example there definitely can be a difference in price, demand for foreign quota is greater than thai quota, if foreign quota isn't full then there should be no difference in price, but sometimes still is

[AustinRacing]

Is the purchase as a means to give your daughter future financial benefit or accommodation. If it’s about investment for her future I’d stay away from real estate in Thailand. Put some cash/gold etc in an account in her name with a maturation date. Her mother or even your daughter does not need to know. 

[khunPer]

15 hours ago, SGD said:

In the west, I would simply have this covered off with a private mortgage / loan charged on the deed (chanote) and that would make getting further loans or a sale impossible but as a minor cannot enter into a legal agreement, that option is not available in Thailand.

 

Does a minor have to have a Thai looking out for the property or can a westerner do that, i.e. me ?

A minor can own property in Thailand, but under guardiancy; i.e. normally a parent. When the property is transferred to a minor, it's extremely difficult to sell or transfer, or have a mortgage registered. You might be able to be the guardian instead of the mother.

 

You can, according to my real-estate specialist lawyer, protect property with a loan registered as mortgage servitude; i.e. the property cannot be sold or transferred without the loan, and interest, is fully paid. My lawyer suggest this method when a foreigner "invest" in property that registered in a Thai citizen's name.

 

As you might not be able to have a servitude registered after a property is move to a minor's name, this should be done before or at same time. You need to check with the local land office about what they will accept as the correct way to transfer property with a loan servitude to a minor...????

[SGD]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yes you can be the adult in charge of your daughters property, but sadly it is only with the consent of both parents. No loans are allowed on the property of a minor.

Not sure that is either correct or practical.

A father would need to have been legitimised or he is not recognised by the Thai legal system as having any part in the child's life and if one of the father or mother were dead then the argument would be that this could not be done which is illogical, even for Thailand.

I'm not saying some offices might make all kinds of nonsense up but I don't think there is a blanket "mom and dad" requirement.

[SGD]

7 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

There is no such thing as foreign\Thai quota and no difference in price. The price is determined by demand\supply and the ability to negotiate. At any point that a foreigner wants to buy a unit, the condo management have to check the current situation - how many foreigners own units in the specific building, and if less than 49% they'll issue an official letter to the land office. It's not that units number X,y,z are in foreign quota and the rest are in Thai quota.

Sorry but that is absolutely wrong.

There is a quota and there is a price difference.

[SGD]

1 hour ago, AustinRacing said:

Is the purchase as a means to give your daughter future financial benefit or accommodation. If it’s about investment for her future I’d stay away from real estate in Thailand. Put some cash/gold etc in an account in her name with a maturation date. Her mother or even your daughter does not need to know. 

Honestly, you would park cash in an account as an "investment" ? You'd see the value eaten alive by inflation.

I look at some Thai properties as simply yield to redemption and assume little or no forward value to the asset. If you can get enough of a yield then values are largely meaningless.