Sole Proprietorship Ands Work Permits

[CosmicSurfer]

I thought I understood and now I'm confused again. This is only for the under 50s.

If married, you have to show 40k and presumably pay tax on it. The cheapest way to do that is to both earn 20k I presume but then there are other costs such as WP etc. If wife earns 40k (or doesn't but pays tax on 40k) you get an extension of stay based on marriage.

Another way, your wife starts up a small business. She employs 2 other Thais and you can work for her on a low salary, say Bt15k and get a WP. Then you do what for your visa ? Can you get a visa on that 15k (or whatever) salary ?

I am Very Much in the SAME situation... Let me try and clear the air...

My Wife also has a Sole Proprietership company... I have a Multi"O" Visa. NO Work Permit.

ALL We have to show immigration for an extension of stay.. beside all the other BS and Photos, etc... is COMBINED income off 40,000 Baht.. Combined means that I don't have to have ANY income, it can all be my wife's from her business... and we don't need to show any money in bank... WE DO need to show her yearly tax form to show that her income was over 480,000 (12x 40,000) and she paid the tax on it.

Besides.. under Thai Law.. all income for a married couple is combined into ONE tax form anyway. So, theoretically of course, You coud Just pay the tax on 480,000 Baht of Yearly income.. and "POOF"... qualified for Income criteria for Extension of Stay.

BTW... Age has nothing to do with it... 50 is for Retirement "O-A" Visa, Not "O"-Married

That's the way I read the law, anyway.

So good luck to both of us.

CS

[torrenova]

I read it that way as well but I have 2 issues with it.

Firstly, I do not think they meant this to be a way around the situation and I suspect they fully expected the western man to be earning the money. Thus potential conflict.

Secondly, it may not be the easiest or cheapest menthod.

Now if you use the 40k option, you could both earn 20k which would mean paying less tax but I would need a WP. This may cost more than just paying tax on the 40k for my wife ?

Where I get confused is this. If I can get a WP on a salary of say 15k, then my tax is negligible but there are the social costs for 2 staff (approx Bt650 per month each ?).

Can I then get a visa or not ?

[misterme]

My questions are regarding NON-Married Sole Proprietorships and work permit.

About to open a business. It's in a Thai name. We will need at least 2 staff other than me and her. I know I cannot work without the work permit, but reading this thread appears that there may be a way.

Is the marriage that important in this calculation?

[torrenova]

My understanding is that if you are not married you need 4 people working and only 2 if you are married.

[digitalchromakey]

Thai Limited Partnership is another route that you can investigate for getting a work permit. Such a limited partnership does not need 4 Thai employees, just 2 million THB Capitalisation per WP.

The catch is that you need a Thai Managing Partner who is the partnersip's director and that person will have unlimited liability. Your liability would be limited to the extent of the partnersip's capitalisation. The ongoing running costs are similar to those of a Thai Limited Company.

You do not need to be married to the managing partner. However if any of the foreigners is married (to anyone) and legally cohabiting with their partner, then their WP requirement for capitalisation drops to 1 Million Baht.

This model has been used by some foreigners wanting to set up small companies here in Thailand; you obviously need a Thai managing partner who you can trust 100%.

My questions are regarding NON-Married Sole Proprietorships and work permit.

About to open a business. It's in a Thai name. We will need at least 2 staff other than me and her. I know I cannot work without the work permit, but reading this thread appears that there may be a way.

Is the marriage that important in this calculation?

[beechguy]

I read it that way as well but I have 2 issues with it.

Firstly, I do not think they meant this to be a way around the situation and I suspect they fully expected the western man to be earning the money. Thus potential conflict.

Secondly, it may not be the easiest or cheapest menthod.

Now if you use the 40k option, you could both earn 20k which would mean paying less tax but I would need a WP. This may cost more than just paying tax on the 40k for my wife ?

Where I get confused is this. If I can get a WP on a salary of say 15k, then my tax is negligible but there are the social costs for 2 staff (approx Bt650 per month each ?).

Can I then get a visa or not ?

Now I'm confused and not sure what you are asking. You can get an "O" visa because you are married to a Thai. Because you are married, you can get a 1 year "extension of stay" if you meet the income requirement. A work permit doesn't have anything to do with an "O" visa or "extension of stay" based on marriage.

Edited October 9, 2007 by beechguy

[Sam125]

If you are trying to avoid having to pay tax on the salary, it could be up to around 14,400 Baht per month.

As for *8K" just depends on the labor Dept. Sometimes that amount is ok, sometimes they want more so you will pay tax, just depends. No set rate like you'll find if you were applying for the extension of stay based on business( Which I understand in your case is not needed as you have a extension of stay based on marriage)www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

1) Yes, I am trying to keep my Thai taxes low to avoid social security taxes primarily and to some extent income taxes.

2) "it could be up to around 14,400 Baht per month."

I am not clear - do you mean that the labor department might require an income of 14,400 baht?

3) Is there a Khorat labor department? Or do work paper aplications need to be done in Bangkok?

[Sunbelt Asia]

If married, you have to show 40k and presumably pay tax on it..

You may have to show 40K or perhaps just 400,000 K in the bank if you have been grandfathered in before Oct 1st 2006.

The cheapest way to do that is to both earn 20k

Why is it cheaper? You both have a combined income on the tax return at the end of the year.

Another way, your wife starts up a small business. She employs 2 other Thais and you can work for her on a low salary, say Bt15k and get a WP. Then you do what for your visa ? Can you get a visa on that 15k (or whatever) salary ?

If you make 15k and she makes 25K per month, yes you can get a extension of stay permit if you were not grandfathered before Oct 1st 2006. If you were grandfathered, cheaper to show the 400K and for you to get a 15K salary and if your wife had a loss on the business, this still would be ok.

The catch is that you need a Thai Managing Partner who is the partnersip's director and that person will have unlimited liability. Your liability would be limited to the extent of the partnersip's capitalisation.

Not 100% correct. A partner of a limited liability partnership is liable for other partnership debts and obligations as well as for their own negligence, malpractice or wrongful acts, or misconduct, and that of any person under their direct supervision and control. If a limited liability partner manages the organization or gets involved in the day to day operation, liability becomes unlimited.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

I am not clear - do you mean that the labor department might require an income of 14,400 baht?

Yes or even higher. It just depends on the Labor Dept.

3) Is there a Khorat labor department? Or do work paper aplications need to be done in Bangkok?

One in Korat.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sam125]

Sunbelt Asia,

Thank you.

I am not clear - do you mean that the labor department might require an income of 14,400 baht?

Yes or even higher. It just depends on the Labor Dept.

3) Is there a Khorat labor department? Or do work paper aplications need to be done in Bangkok?

One in Korat.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[CosmicSurfer]

I read it that way as well but I have 2 issues with it.

Firstly, I do not think they meant this to be a way around the situation and I suspect they fully expected the western man to be earning the money. Thus potential conflict.

Secondly, it may not be the easiest or cheapest menthod.

Now if you use the 40k option, you could both earn 20k which would mean paying less tax but I would need a WP. This may cost more than just paying tax on the 40k for my wife ?

Where I get confused is this. If I can get a WP on a salary of say 15k, then my tax is negligible but there are the social costs for 2 staff (approx Bt650 per month each ?).

Can I then get a visa or not ?

First... A Thai woman CAN support a Western man.. That was what I told the Embassy when I got my One-Year Multiple... also, what We told Immigrtion in Bangkok, when we tried last time... But we need to wait for Year-end Tax filing... They think it's Cute and unusual... But it's perfectly legal. All the KL Embassy wanted when I told them was a Letter from my Wife requesting Visa for Me.. Which she faxed to them same day.

Second.. You're nissing the point... For you and your wife Income is COMBINED on your Tax forms.. actually your wife's income goes on YOUR (the Husband) tax form.. unless you have NO income.. then it goes on your wife's form only... That's the Tax Law.. so says my wife who is a "Chief Accountant" in her Day Job.

So there is No Advantage having 2 incomes.. just more hassle and expense to get Work permit.

Finally.. NO work Permit, means.. no need for ANY employees.. Thai or Otherwise. So more money saved.

Hope this is clearer..

CS

[torrenova]

OK, so we have the following options I think ( )

1) I give her 40k per month and she pays tax on it saying she makes it selling magic beans or something.

2) We both earn 20k, we both have tax allowances meaning less tax each but I need a WP and we must employ 2 Thais.

3) I earn 40k and need a WP and all the rest of it.

What about if I get 40k or more from overseas. I am way under 50, no grandfathering in any way. As a UK national, what do I really have to show ? Is it real documents of just that more than 40k comes into my account each month ?

At the moment, unless there is another, easier method, is looks like the non imm "O" each year on 400k or the 40k per month (tax forms needed eventually for a mortgage for the wife). If I need to work, then the WP route working for her.

Anyone worked out the realistic total annual ocsts for these ?

I'll chuck in the non imm "O" costs:

Trip to Bangkok - 1000

Flight to SIN/KUL/PNG etc. - 4000

Taxis at the other end - 1000

Visa costs - 1000

Hotel - 1500 (average)

Anciliary costs like food, telephone etc. - 1500

Transport home - 1000

So the visa turns you over 11,000. Three border trips in the year adds up to another 7000 or so and your year works out at about 18,000 baht.

Anyone want to work out the others ?

[lopburi3]

You will need documents to show the UK Embassy for issue of income letter.

[Sunny Valentine]

Just wondering if there is a way to get 1 Year B extension based on working for a Thai sole proprietor?

Suppose the applicant is not married to a Thai national, earns 50000 or more, and his employer employs 4 or more Thais.

The current regulations on capitalization and the like don't fit on this situation, as no company is involved. So how is the Immigration's approach here?

Sunny

[Sunbelt Asia]

Just wondering if there is a way to get 1 Year B extension based on working for a Thai sole proprietor?

No way and no way if its a foreign sole proprietor to get a extension of stay based on business.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[CosmicSurfer]

OK, so we have the following options I think ( )

1) I give her 40k per month and she pays tax on it saying she makes it selling magic beans or something.

2) We both earn 20k, we both have tax allowances meaning less tax each but I need a WP and we must employ 2 Thais.

3) I earn 40k and need a WP and all the rest of it.

What about if I get 40k or more from overseas. I am way under 50, no grandfathering in any way. As a UK national, what do I really have to show ? Is it real documents of just that more than 40k comes into my account each month ?

At the moment, unless there is another, easier method, is looks like the non imm "O" each year on 400k or the 40k per month (tax forms needed eventually for a mortgage for the wife). If I need to work, then the WP route working for her.

Anyone worked out the realistic total annual ocsts for these ?

I'll chuck in the non imm "O" costs:

Trip to Bangkok - 1000

Flight to SIN/KUL/PNG etc. - 4000

Taxis at the other end - 1000

Visa costs - 1000

Hotel - 1500 (average)

Anciliary costs like food, telephone etc. - 1500

Transport home - 1000

So the visa turns you over 11,000. Three border trips in the year adds up to another 7000 or so and your year works out at about 18,000 baht.

Anyone want to work out the others ?

I don't understand your concerns and confusion... if its money and finding the CHEAPEST way to do this, then you need to do it the simple way... KISS (Keep it simple, stupid)

First... forget about the Age Factor.. 50 years old is ONLY about a Retirement (O-A Visa).. YOU DON'T Qualify.

Second... Forget about 400,000 Baht... It's ONLY for PREVIOUS O-Visa Holders that have already shown the 400,000 in the bank and gotten their visa BEFORE they changed the rules. (That's what grandfather Clause is about).. and again... You DON't Qualify.

Third... You May save a few Baht by taking a 20,000 salary for both you and your Wife to make a combined income of 40,000... But then you need 2 Thai employees... so what you save on reduced taxes, you will pay out probably more to have the employees.. plus the additional document filings and reporting obligtions for the employees...

Again I ask... If you are working with your wife... WHY DO YOU NEED A Work Permit???

If she, ALONE, makes the required 40K Baht, then you can get the One-Year extension.. WITHOUT any of the added cost, hassle or headaches.

If you plan on working elsewhere, then you CAN'T use this work permit anyway.. they are company specific and can't be transferred.

So, stop making youself crazy with alternatives... KISS... It's much less stress.

CS

[torrenova]

True CS but:

1. I know about the age factor

2. I know about the grandfathered 400k not being applicable

3. I know about the additional costs (though not quantified) of a WP and 2 employees but I might want another WP. Working with my wife I would, technically, need one anyway.

4. I know about the 1 year extension on 40k but she doesn't declare anything, we would have to formalise that

5. I know WP are specific but you can bend the rules

Months ago I put up the question which went something like "long term stay, cheapest way, married, one kid, not working / maybe working" and got a lot of responses over dozens of threads but there was no consensus and a simple list.

After this time I post that you can do it here for less than 20k per year if you don't want to work at all on an "O" visa. Do it on the married one and she has to earn 40k and pay the taxes on it. If I want to work, I need a WP.

What happens next year if loads of guys go on the wife 40k and they say 80k ? no grandfather ? If you are already on a low income WP then you are ahead perhaps (or perhaps not if GF in).

I was a risk analyst and you cannot quantify risk unless you know all the facts. You've got people here (no disrespect) going to borders and flying here and there and they don't really know what they are doing or how they got their visa or why. You get 10 guys coming back from Singapore saying 400k only but not saying if GF'd in or not.

What I am saying is that there is not a definitive answer and thus, all avenues have to be explored and weighed up.

Just how long do you think the govt will allow guys to piggy back on their wife's income ?

Finally, any ideas if I just get 40k transferred into LOS ? Has it really got to be earned or just income ?