Insulated metal roof

[sometimewoodworker]

12 hours ago, unheard said:

which one is known to breakdown?

Is my sentence structure unclear?

[Pouatchee]

I called on a company called 'Thaiger' here in Rayong. They use Bluescope. Excellent product. metal sheet on the top and bottom with foam in between. Many colors and thicknesses to choose from. It comes in 2 different shapes too. 10 x 12 house about 280 000 bht. It took a big bite in the budget.

[unheard]

14 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

In all probability a layer of silver backed PU foam will provide a similar, if not better, result at less cost though it’s common for lower quality installs like this to breakdown.

Again, please elaborate on what you mean under lower quality installs?

What is known to breakdown?

Can you point to any evidence since it's common in your view?

[unheard]

1 hour ago, Pouatchee said:

I called on a company called 'Thaiger' here in Rayong. They use Bluescope. Excellent product. metal sheet on the top and bottom with foam in between. Many colors and thicknesses to choose from. It comes in 2 different shapes too. 10 x 12 house about 280 000 bht. It took a big bite in the budget.

I assume you haven't tried to price it against the "regular" franchised Bluescope shop?

[Kwasaki]

15 hours ago, unheard said:

What are the chances that it costs even greater?

Maybe OP will post his findings I hope so it will be interesting.

 

[Kwasaki]

15 hours ago, unheard said:

which one is known to breakdown?

The foam. 

[unheard]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Maybe OP will post his findings I hope so it will be interesting.

 

Second that!

Not only interesting but also super helpful for anyone considering insulated metal roof options.

[Kwasaki]

14 hours ago, unheard said:

The standard one doesn't have the second metal layer.

Wait a second.

It also does?

Oh, then yeah, in that case let's wait a see until the OP gets his price quote (not a guarantee if he even hears back if the manufacturer prefer to deal with higher volume orders).

I don't think he will like it.

I never said that the linked by the OP product is in any way inferior.

It looks great.

So I suspect is the price.

Why don't you like this composite roof panel system.

 

In UK I saved on site time labour costs on every project so there's the only difference I can see Thailand wise. 

 

The Thai Labour of installing would be my concern not price. 

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Kwasaki

[unheard]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

The foam. 

Sorry to repeat, but what's exactly the failure?

 

His words: "In all probability a layer of silver backed PU foam will provide a similar, if not better, result at less cost though it’s common for lower quality installs like this to breakdown."

 

What kind of breakdown of PU foam?

Can you please describe or point me to any evidence?

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Why don't you like this composite roof panel system.

In UK I saved on site time labour costs on every project so there's the only difference In can see Thailand wise. 

The Thai Labour of installing would be my concern not price. 

A in the US, much is done to save labor costs, but that does not mean the result is better. 

[unheard]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Why don't you like this composite roof panel system.

I love this metal sandwich system!

But at the same time I also like the "regular" panels without the extra cost of the second metal sheet (would be nice to know the price difference).

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, unheard said:

Sorry to repeat, but what's exactly the failure?

 

His words: "In all probability a layer of silver backed PU foam will provide a similar, if not better, result at less cost though it’s common for lower quality installs like this to breakdown."

 

What kind of breakdown of PU foam?

Can you please describe or point me to any evidence?

I don't think it's the foam breaking down, but rather the foam separating from the roof. 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 minutes ago, unheard said:

Sorry to repeat, but what's exactly the failure?

 

His words: "In all probability a layer of silver backed PU foam will provide a similar, if not better, result at less cost though it’s common for lower quality installs like this to breakdown."

 

What kind of breakdown of PU foam?

Can you please describe or point me to any evidence?

I’ll get you pictures when I get back home, though simple observations of local shops will also give examples 

[sometimewoodworker]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

I don't think it's the foam breaking down, but rather the foam separating from the roof. 

It’s both

[Kwasaki]

Just now, unheard said:

Sorry to repeat, but what's exactly the failure?

 

His words: "In all probability a layer of silver backed PU foam will provide a similar, if not better, result at less cost though it’s common for lower quality installs like this to breakdown."

 

What kind of breakdown of PU foam?

Can you please describe or point me to any evidence?

Initially first reports from memory it deteriates and cracks up and falls off in some cases not all.

 

It is used quite a bit on already installed roof property and I would say improvements of foams used and the technology will get better.

[unheard]

@sometimewoodworker @Kwasaki

Are you guys talking about thick PU foam or the thin type of insulation that is glued on.to the metals surface?

From what I've seen on this board that's the silvery thin material that does tend to separate after a number of years, especially when exposed to elements.

It's not made out of PU!

[Kwasaki]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

A in the US, much is done to save labor costs, but that does not mean the result is better. 

In my experience In would disgree a one lump of completed composite roof panel placed and fixed on a roof is better half dozen different components to make up a roof. 

 

The fixing is simple enough by a competent fixer and as I said before the insulation level the panels return make them very useful in the building of cold storage units. 

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, unheard said:

@sometimewoodworker @Kwasaki

Are you guys talking about thick PU foam or the thin type of insulation that is glued on.to the metals surface?

From what I've seen on this board that's the silvery thin material that does tend to separate after a number of years, especially when exposed to elements.

It's not made out of PU!

On UK projects we used foam spray to fill in cavity places in akward details of roof design that is only knowledge I am familiar with about foam use, apart from reading some reports on foam used on roof. 

 

To put a single skin roof on and spray foam or use underside products to insulate is not something I would do in Thailand.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Kwasaki

[unheard]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

To put a single skin roof on and spray foam or use underside products to insulate is not something I would do in Thailand.

But we're not talking about spray foam here.

What do you see being wrong with this design that's been used in Thailand for many years by now?

Or rather why wouldn't you use it on your own house?

[Kwasaki]

11 minutes ago, unheard said:

But we're not talking about spray foam here.

What do you see being wrong with this design that's been used in Thailand for many years by now?

Or rather why wouldn't you use it on your own house?

If that composite roof panel section has the galve steel underlining sheet I would use it but use 75mm thick insulation instead of what looks in the image as 25mm.

 

Personally I would put slate tiles on top in addition if it were my house. 

 

A lining sheet can be placed on roof purlins, then 75mm thick foam board then a roof steel that looks like tiles would be my other option. 

 

[Pouatchee]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

I assume you haven't tried to price it against the "regular" franchised Bluescope shop?

If memory serves me right, bluescope did not make it with the foam nor was the underside included. My wife did some meticulous shopping around so I have no doubt we got the best bang for our buck. Our house is small, but all the materials were nearly... premium quality. But we did not skimp on the roof.

[unheard]

4 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

If that composite roof panel section has the galve steel underlining sheet I would use it but use 75mm thick insulation instead of what looks in the image as 25mm.

There's an underlining layer of what looks like aluminum foil.

The foam layer stiffens up the sheet. It feels almost solid, not wobbly.

25mm thick insulation works just fine in my experience.

Upon delivery the roof stayed under the hot Sun and the underside remained barely warm to touch.

[Pouatchee]

16 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

If that composite roof panel section has the galve steel underlining sheet I would use it but use 75mm thick insulation instead of what looks in the image as 25mm.

I have the 2.5 cm one, and no complaints here. 7.5 is overkill in price and quality. Most of us living here don't need a house that will last 50 years + cos we will be long gone by then. 

[unheard]

32 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

If memory serves me right, bluescope did not make it with the foam nor was the underside included. My wife did some meticulous shopping around so I have no doubt we got the best bang for our buck. Our house is small, but all the materials were nearly... premium quality. But we did not skimp on the roof.

That's right - Bluescope sells metal sheet.

But it also has a franchised network of roll -forming shops throughout Thailand.

Those shops are usually being an easily accessible source in the whole of Thailand of the single-skin Bluescope-branded metal roofs (in most cases).

They roller-form Bluescope's metal into a desired profile, apply PU or the other type of thin insulation and cut finished sheets to size and deliver to location.

Edited April 28, 2023 by unheard

[unheard]

2 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

7.5 is overkill in price and quality. Most of us living here don't need a house that will last 50 years + cos we will be long gone by then. 

Yeah, 7.5cm of insulation wouldn't add much on top of the already  performant 2.5

[Don Chance]

Better to build a double roof. The second roof will act as shade for the first one.  You have to be careful will insulation in hot climate can easily turn into a mold  factory.

 

https://architropics.com/double-roof-for-cooler-house/

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Don Chance

[unheard]

3 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

You have to be careful will insulation in hot climate can easily turn into a mold  factory.

Roof condensation is a risk in colder climates.

[Kwasaki]

20 minutes ago, unheard said:

There's an underlining layer of what looks like aluminum foil.

The foam layer stiffens up the sheet. It feels almost solid, not wobbly.

25mm thick insulation works just fine in my experience.

Upon delivery the roof stayed under the hot Sun and the underside remained barely warm to touch.

If a suitable underlining foil is in place of a galv steel underlining it will serve just as well and bring costs down. 

 

I guess it could be a choice as to the design of the build to whether the underside would be used as a finished ceiling.

[Kwasaki]

20 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

I have the 2.5 cm one, and no complaints here. 7.5 is overkill in price and quality. Most of us living here don't need a house that will last 50 years + cos we will be long gone by then. 

Fair call still have my cold storage unit head on even after 20 years.????

[Kwasaki]

18 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

Better to build a double roof. The second roof will act as shade for the first one.  You have to be careful will insulation in hot climate can easily turn into a mold  factory.

 

https://architropics.com/double-roof-for-cooler-house/

 

Just another architecture design technic.