Russia is sending museum pieces into war, but experts say they may still be effective

[torturedsole]

Don't worry about that. Russia will get the better of Ukraine either way but it's what happens thereafter. Personally, I've no idea but I know it won't be nice. 

 

I'm convinced the majority of people either aren't interested or don't understand the Ukraine situation and I don't blame them. Soon enough it's going to kick right off and the Russians aren't without the support of China and a few other crappy countries but China is the biggie. 

 

The US/UK/EU should be at the forefront of negotiations with these loons but there's nothing. 

 

Well, what goes around comes around.  

[spidermike007]

If anyone thought Russia was a near superpower, and Putin was smart, all that presumption has gone out the window. Russia is a antiquated, poor, nearly broken nation, barely able to feed it's own people, much less equip it's army. It is ten times the size of Canada, with a comparable GDP. It is corrupt beyond imagination, and Putin is utterly desperate. 

 

Russia is a bad joke. 

[kickstart]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Russia don’t even have tanks for their victory day parade. Military hardwares like tanks and planes were regular features of the parade. Times are really bad for Russia military. 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/09/europe/russia-victory-day-parade-moscow-intl/index.html

They did have one, a T34 from WW2, the pre runner to the T55, brought out from a museum for the day, and they had 2 more on the sidelines in case it broke down, the T 34's not being the most reliable of tanks. 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, kickstart said:

They did have one, a T34 from WW2, the pre runner to the T55, brought out from a museum for the day, and they had 2 more on the sidelines in case it broke down, the T 34's not being the most reliable of tanks. 

[scottiejohn]

2 hours ago, torturedsole said:

Don't worry about that. Russia will get the better of Ukraine either way but it's what happens thereafter. Personally, I've no idea but I know it won't be nice. 

 

I'm convinced the majority of people either aren't interested or don't understand the Ukraine situation and I don't blame them. Soon enough it's going to kick right off and the Russians aren't without the support of China and a few other crappy countries but China is the biggie. 

 

The US/UK/EU should be at the forefront of negotiations with these loons but there's nothing. 

 

Well, what goes around comes around.  

And your "solution", apart from surrender by Ukraine, is what?

[Stargeezr]

I am so glad that I am not Russian, cannon fodder.  I feel sorry for the parents and relatives of

all the Russian farm lads that have gone to Ukraine to die.  Do most Russians really

still have the love for Putin?  Just wondering.

Harvey

[torturedsole]

14 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

And your "solution", apart from surrender by Ukraine, is what?

I already told you, negotiation.

 

It's that or, ultimately, all out global war.  

[scottiejohn]

31 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

I already told you, negotiation.

 

It's that or, ultimately, all out global war.  

So you actually mean "surrender" by Ukraine!

[Kwasaki]

16 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

If anyone thought Russia was a near superpower, and Putin was smart, all that presumption has gone out the window. Russia is a antiquated, poor, nearly broken nation, barely able to feed it's own people, much less equip it's army. It is ten times the size of Canada, with a comparable GDP. It is corrupt beyond imagination, and Putin is utterly desperate. 

 

Russia is a bad joke. 

Yeah typically forget the nukes.

[Kwasaki]

15 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Shhuucc Specially fitted with 3000cc Toyota engine.

[Kwasaki]

9 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

So you actually mean "surrender" by Ukraine!

I would say it would be a kind of surrender by giving away land which they more or less sort of did before.

With western backing I don't see an end to the war in near future.

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, torturedsole said:

I already told you, negotiation.

 

It's that or, ultimately, all out global war.  

Ukraine was invaded by Russia. What exactly should the Ukrainians be willing to negotiate about?

[torturedsole]

53 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Ukraine was invaded by Russia. What exactly should the Ukrainians be willing to negotiate about?

So you don't want the war to end?

[scottiejohn]

19 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

So you don't want the war to end?

Yes by Russia halting its illegal invasion and withdrawing from ALL of Ukraine.

Putin started the war!

Putin can and must stop the invasion and finish the war!

If he is allowed to get away with this who is next, Poland?

[ballpoint]

On 5/9/2023 at 1:48 PM, CMBob said:

For the benefit of the crews crammed into those 75-year-old tanks, I hope they come with a very good reverse gear.

They'd have to be able to reverse all the way back to the 1950's for them to have any chance.

[Phoenix Rising]

57 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

So you don't want the war to end?

I do want the war to end right this minute. I want Russia to stop the attacks and retreat behind it's own borders. Then, Russia hand over all persons accused of war crimes (including Putin) and start paying reparations.

OK, I have answered your question. Will you answer mine or can't/won't you because you've got nothing? 

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, torturedsole said:

So you don't want the war to end?

Explain to us how Negotiating for anything more than Russia removing itself from the sovereign Ukrainian land it invaded would be a good thing for Ukraine.  Sure the (Special Operation) really a war started by Russia for now would stop, but Russia sooner rather than later would want to continue its campaign to encroach upon more Ukrainian land, just like Taking Crimea in 2014, and 8 years later pushing onward.  Do you support the bloodshed and criminal activity undertaken by the Putin Regime?  Please do not say it was anyone's fault other than Russia's and try to deflect from the carnage he (Putin) has caused.

[scottiejohn]

6 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

I do want the war to end right this minute. I want Russia to stop the attacks and retreat behind it's own borders. Then, Russia hand over all persons accused of war crimes (including Putin) and start paying reparations.

OK, I have answered your question. Will you answer mine or can't/won't you because you've got nothing? 

+1  

[torturedsole]

42 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Yes by Russia halting its illegal invasion and withdrawing from ALL of Ukraine.

Putin started the war!

Putin can and must stop the invasion and finish the war!

If he is allowed to get away with this who is next, Poland?

12 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

I do want the war to end right this minute. I want Russia to stop the attacks and retreat behind it's own borders. Then, Russia hand over all persons accused of war crimes (including Putin) and start paying reparations.

OK, I have answered your question. Will you answer mine or can't/won't you because you've got nothing? 

Yes, in an ideal world Russia should pack up and go home, but that's not going to happen so the war will continue unabated.

 

The only option is to negotiate with the enemy. 

 

I understand your point, Phoenix Rising, but hoping the Russians withdraw right this instant isn't going to break the deadlock. Not now and not ever. 

 

 

[scottiejohn]

Just now, torturedsole said:

Yes, in an ideal world Russia should pack up and go home, but that's not going to happen so the war will continue unabated.

 

The only option is to negotiate with the enemy. 

 

I understand your point, Phoenix Rising, but hoping the Russians withdraw right this instance isn't going to break the deadlock. Not now and not ever. 

 

 

So if the Russians will not withdraw what is there to negotiate about?

[torturedsole]

Just now, scottiejohn said:

So if the Russians will not withdraw what is there to negotiate about?

I'm not a professional negotiator.

[scottiejohn]

2 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

Russians withdraw right this instance isn't going to break the deadlock. Not now and not ever. 

If they will not withdraw they MUST be defeated.

What is your alternative?

Hint, do not say negotiate as if withdrawal is not on the table there is nothing to negotiate!

[scottiejohn]

Just now, torturedsole said:

I'm not a professional negotiator.

So why keep on about negotiating then?

[torturedsole]

3 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

So why keep on about negotiating then?

Because it's the only rational and logical answer to bring a close to the war.

 

Anyway, I foresee Russia eventually prevailing through sheer brute force and numbers, then there'll be nothing left to negotiate so why wait?

[Phoenix Rising]

9 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

I'm not a professional negotiator.

You don't have to be a professional negotiator to come up with reasons to negotiate. 

The only way this war ends is in Russian defeat. The only question is of badly they get mauled in the process.

[Phoenix Rising]

3 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

Because it's the only rational and logical answer to bring a close to the war.

 

Anyway, I foresee Russia eventually prevailing through sheer brute force and numbers, then there'll be nothing left to negotiate so why wait?

What brute force? The kind that was supposed to conquer Ukraine in 72 hrs? The brute force that now is forced to utilize museum pieces as frontline weapons? Nah, I don't think so. 

[Pink Mist]

Please stay on topic and stop trying to move the OP in another direction and away from the OP Topic which is: 

Russia is sending museum pieces into war, but experts say they may still be effective

[scottiejohn]

14 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

Because it's the only rational and logical answer to bring a close to the war.

 

Anyway, I foresee Russia eventually prevailing through sheer brute force and numbers, then there'll be nothing left to negotiate so why wait?

And no Europe if they are allowed to get away with it!

 

PS;  I am still waiting to hear what a non professional negotiator wants to negotiate about and what you will put on the table!

[torturedsole]

16 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

What brute force? The kind that was supposed to conquer Ukraine in 72 hrs? The brute force that now is forced to utilize museum pieces as frontline weapons? Nah, I don't think so. 

I've no vested interest in Russia but irrespective of not achieving their earlier ridiculous timeline, doesn't mean they won't prevail in the longer term.  

 

Museum pieces still represent armoury/weaponry and there's no way that Russia will accept defeat. 

 

We can debate it all day, but Russia holds all the cards.

[torturedsole]

3 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

PS;  I am still waiting to hear what a non professional negotiator wants to negotiate about and what you will put on the table!

This is getting boring. I've made my point, it stands, and my name isn't Terry Waite.