What can be done to make Thai Roads safer?

[KannikaP]

On 5/25/2023 at 7:19 PM, kwilco said:

Why Thailand must adopt the "safe System" -

 

Road safety is a pressing public health concern worldwide, and Thailand is no exception. Ranking among the top ten causes of death in the country, road accidents account for a significant number of fatalities and injuries, particularly within certain demographic groups.

https://apps.who.int/iris/handle/10665/258545

 

 

Thailand's approach to road safety is outdated and fundamentally flawed. Despite numerous road safety campaigns launched by provinces, cities, and organizations throughout the country, such efforts have proven largely ineffective.

 

This essay explores the reasons behind these failures and emphasizes the urgent need for Thailand to embrace the "Safe System" to mitigate road accidents. Additionally, it addresses the misconceptions and lack of understanding among foreign drivers regarding road safety in Thailand.

 

The Safe System:

The Safe System, developed in Sweden from the 1950s onwards, presents a comprehensive approach to road safety. It aims to minimize the number of deaths and serious injuries on the road by acknowledging that humans make mistakes. The Safe System emphasizes the importance of designing the road transport system to protect all road users, even if errors occur.

 

Key Principles of the Safe System:

1. Safe roads: Roads should be designed to minimize the risk of crashes and reduce their severity. This includes measures like ensuring adequate lane widths, clear road markings, and appropriate lighting.
2. Safe speeds: Managing speeds helps to decrease the risk and severity of crashes. Measures such as setting appropriate speed limits, utilizing speed cameras, and designing roads to encourage drivers to slow down are crucial.
3. Safe vehicles: Vehicles should be designed to minimize the risk of crashes and reduce their consequences. This can be achieved by improving vehicle crashworthiness, equipping vehicles with advanced safety technologies, and conducting regular vehicle inspections.
4. Safe people: Educating and encouraging road users to behave safely is vital. Measures such as driver training, educational campaigns, and the enforcement of traffic laws contribute to this aspect of the Safe System.

 

https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/thailand/roadsafety/overview-en-final-25-7-19.pdf?sfvrsn=f9d7a862_2

 

https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/safe-system#:~:text=The%20Safe%20System%20is%20an,are%20embedded%20within%20Vision%20Zero.

 

By implementing the Safe System, countries worldwide have witnessed significant reductions in road fatalities and injuries, making roads safer for everyone.

 

The "5 Es" of Implementation:

To successfully implement the Safe System, the following five principles, often referred to as the "5 Es," must be considered:

1. Engineering: Focus on designing safe vehicles and roads.
2. Education: Emphasize road safety education in schools, through testing, public information campaigns, and lifelong learning.
3. Enforcement: Strengthen law enforcement through trained police, an effective court system, practical legislation, and penalties.
4. Emergency: Ensure the presence of well-trained first responders and establish universal emergency response systems and hospital departments.
5. Evaluation: Conduct examinations, measurements, and calibrations of crash scenes, and compile internationally recognized statistics.

 

Thailand's Failure to fully Adopt the Safe System:

Thailand has fallen short in all aspects of implementing the Safe System. Despite its holistic nature, the country has only addressed isolated issues, yielding minimal impact on road safety over the past three decades.

 

International Examples:

Countries that have adopted the Safe System approach have witnessed significant improvements in road safety. For instance:

1. Sweden: The Safe System has been an integral part of Sweden's road safety strategy since the 1990s, leading to substantial reductions in road fatalities. The country aims to achieve zero deaths by 2050. = https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2021-07/erso-country-overview-2017-sweden_en.pdf

 

2. The Netherlands: Another leader in Safe System adoption, the Netherlands has implemented measures such as building cycle paths, reducing speed limits in urban areas, and implementing various traffic calming measures.

https://swov.nl/en/news/sustainable-safety-short-history-safe-system-approach-netherlands

 

3. New Zealand: Since 2010, New Zealand has been one of the first countries outside Europe to embrace the Safe System approach, resulting in notable progress in reducing road fatalities, particularly among vulnerable road users.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/projects/sh16-kaukapakapa-school-speed-zone/safe-system-approach/#:~:text=The%20safe%20system%20approach%20recognises,loss%20of%20life%20or%20limb.

 

4. Australia: Australia has also adopted the Safe System approach, focusing on it as a key strategy in the National Road Safety Strategy 2021-2030. However, the country still has work to do to fully implement it across all states. 5. France: France's road death rate, previously on par with Thailand's in the 1970s (32.7 per 100,000 population), has significantly decreased to 3.9 per 100,000 through the implementation of the Safe System.

https://thinkroadsafety.sa.gov.au/road_safety_strategy/road_safety_strategy_to_2031/the_safe_system_approach#:~:text=%E2%80%9CSafe%20System%E2%80%9D%20is%20the%20Australian,crash%20forces%20before%20harm%20occurs

 

 

The Ignorance Surrounding Road Safety in Thailand:

It is evident that Thai authorities, the Thai public, and even expatriates lack awareness of road safety science and policies, as well as the fundamental principles and practices associated with road safety. Consequently, they remain unaware of the risks and hazards associated with driving and the appropriate measures to mitigate them. They make up a significant part of the numbers of foreigners killed and injured in RTIs - https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40023780

 

Expatriates, in particular, often lack knowledge of the basic rules of the road, traffic signals, signs, and markings, as well as general driving etiquette and the nuanced aspects of road use in Thailand. They tend to impose their home country's driving standards on Thai roads, failing to understand the local context.

Furthermore, expatriates may underestimate the risks associated with driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol, overestimate their driving skills, and engage in risky behaviours that increase the likelihood of accidents and injuries. This attitude  or “freedom” may also discourage their support for road safety policies and initiatives, such as improved infrastructure or stricter traffic law enforcement, as they perceive them as excessive regulations. See the number of times the cliché “nanny state” is referred to.

 

Conclusion:

Thailand urgently needs a comprehensive shift in attitude towards road safety, involving both top-down initiatives and grassroots efforts. It is disheartening to observe that even individuals from countries with low road death rates remain uninformed about road safety, as evidenced by their attitudes towards driving in Thailand.

 

Adopting the Safe System and educating both the public and expatriates on its principles are crucial steps to improve road safety in Thailand. The country can learn from the successes of nations that have embraced this approach and implement comprehensive measures aligned with the "5 Es." Through these concerted efforts, Thailand can make significant progress in reducing road accidents, making its roads safer for everyone.

War & Peace Pt 1?   555

[chalawaan]

On 5/15/2023 at 1:09 PM, anrcaccount said:

Mandate and enforce helmet wearing.

 

Through some inexplicable mix of fear, media, acceptance of authority and culture, Thais adopted mass masking in response to covid. Millions of them still today, make the effort to buy, carry and wear these things everywhere. 

 

Trying to get the same thing occurring, but for helmet wearing, would save many, many more lives than the masking ever has.

 

 

A helmet is ones last lifeline. While I take your point about the mask mystery as a contrast, the solution needs to be "everything, everywhere, all at once" road lighting, police enforcement (active patrols pulling them over constantly) driver education, age restrictions and long arduous "learner" paths to a licence, vehicle maintenance especially brakes, tires, and lights, tinted windshields banned, breath testing roadblocks, all strictly and actively policed. 

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, chalawaan said:

Import the NSW Highway Patrol Division, those bros don't mess around, and boy do those Australian traffic penalties hurt! 

????????????

Australia has never done vey well in the road safety league and sadly the crash rates in Australia appear to be on the up again.

Edited May 27, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

War & Peace Pt 1?   555

Sorry, didn't you understand?

[kwilco]

On 5/15/2023 at 7:09 AM, anrcaccount said:

Mandate and enforce helmet wearing.

 

Through some inexplicable mix of fear, media, acceptance of authority and culture, Thais adopted mass masking in response to covid. Millions of them still today, make the effort to buy, carry and wear these things everywhere. 

 

Trying to get the same thing occurring, but for helmet wearing, would save many, many more lives than the masking ever has.

 

 

According to the Thai government's Department of Land Transport, sales of crash helmets in Thailand increased by 15% in 2022 compared to 2021.

The increase in wearing a quality appears to be over the last few years as helmets re now and object of desire amongst some M/C users.

helmets can reduce the risk of death by up to 37% for riders and 41% for passengers. Helmets can also reduce the risk of head injury by 69%., but they are not a complete solution - in fact they are only marginally significant

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

I would say that American drivers especially as they think everyone should drive on the other side of the road,

 

The whole conversation is stupid as we have to adapt to the circumstances we find ourselves in. It is not the same as where we learned to drive, the drivers are different. We simply have to concentrate and learn to adapt.

"concentrate and learn to adapt" - is probably the key for foeigners - who think everyone should drive like they do at home."

 

Single factors don't add up in road safety - it is a combination that leads to "normal" human error.

Things like tests and side of the road you drive have minimal effect on their own. 

i have habitually driven in countries that drive on either side and it never presents a real problem . I also drive LHD and RHD vehicles. adapting is fast and easy for most - if they think about it then they probably have other driving problems too.

As for tests, most of the older posters on this thread (and others) took tests that re way less demanding than the Thai current tet. A test is good to start you off, but within months you are on your own to form your own bad driving habits - which you then claim are "experience"

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by kwilco

[LennyW]

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

Just a few racist cliches as a substitute for not understanding how to drive in Thailand.

Been driving here for 30 years so i have a fair idea junior!

[kwilco]

26 minutes ago, LennyW said:

Been driving here for 30 years so i have a fair idea junior!

I first drove in 1994 and have certainly over the years have covered more miles than you - but this is yet another problem of foreigners who drive in Thailand, they think because they have done it for a long time, they think it automatically  it qualifies them to talk about road safety yet they never really understand what that really is..

They make the mistake of thinking they have experience when in reality it is just an accumulation of bad habits.

In terms of road safety one needs to approach it with critical thinking based on evidence rather than an accumulation of biases and prejudices.

The trick is to use sceptically and analysis to get a reasoned answer rather than  cynicism to hide one’s ignorance and reinforce prejudices.

  

Edited May 27, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

On 5/26/2023 at 3:22 AM, quake said:

Yeap,  that's about right.  

There are sites doing this with every country in the world....UK TV has crash after crash on regular programmes.

What you are seeing is a media echo chamber. An environment where you only encounter information and opinions that concur with or reinforce your own.

Echo chambers  create misinformation and distort  perspective.The result is  you can't see the whole picture and are unable to discuss a relatively complicated topics. They pander to confirmation bias; the tendency to favour only information that reinforces your existing beliefs.

Edited June 13, 2023 by kwilco

[lordgrinz]

I've spent time reading thru the Thailand "Road Traffic ACT", almost all of the Rules and Laws that we are accustomed to in Western countries are in there. Almost nobody is following the laws and rules in place, which puts everyone in danger. So the issue is ignorance of Thai drivers, improper training, and most importantly lack of any enforcement. Until they have a proper police force installed, that actually enforces the existing laws and rules, nothing will change.

[kwilco]

3 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

I've spent time reading thru the Thailand "Road Traffic ACT", almost all of the Rules and Laws that we are accustomed to in Western countries are in there. Almost nobody is following the laws and rules in place, which puts everyone in danger. So the issue is ignorance of Thai drivers, improper training, and most importantly lack of any enforcement. Until they have a proper police force installed, that actually enforces the existing laws and rules, nothing will change.

False premise.

Qed someone who thinks people inThailand should drive as they do "at home" 

 

[lordgrinz]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

False premise.

Qed someone who thinks people inThailand should drive as they do "at home" 

 

No false premise.

 

If you had actually read the Thai Road Traffic ACT you would know that Thai's aren't following their own rules and laws. Give the Thai Road Traffic ACT a read, you'll be enlightened.

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

No false premise.

 

If you had actually read the Thai Road Traffic ACT you would know that Thai's aren't following their own rules and laws. Give the Thai Road Traffic ACT a read, you'll be enlightened.

I HAVE read the road traffic act and most of the amendments.

I also have the ability to think critically, and have a huge experience of road safety. I can tell when someone hasn't made sense of what they've read - you apparently can't.

all you have done is make claims that all Thai people are ignorant.

You are implying that because you have read the Thai Highway laws dated 1979, you have drawn to conclusion that Thai people are ignorant and this is why road safety is so bad in Thailand.

It would be hard to find a more facile argument about road safety.

Road safety is a science and is dependant on so much more than one persons false dichotomy.

all you are doing is pandering to an innate racist sense  of self-superiority

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by kwilco

[lordgrinz]

16 minutes ago, kwilco said:

I HAVE read the road traffic act and most of the amendments.

I also have the ability to think critically, and have a huge experience of road safety. I can tell when someone hasn't made sense of what they've read - you apparently can't.

all you have done is make claims that all Thai people are ignorant.

You are implying that because you have read the Thai Highway laws dated 1979, you have drawn to conclusion that Thai people are ignorant and this is why road safety is so bad in Thailand.

It would be hard to find a more facile argument about road safety.

Road safety is a science and is dependant on so much more than one persons false dichotomy.

all you are doing is pandering to an innate racist sense  of self-superiority

 

If you'd like I can take a video tomorrow showing one trip to drop my daughter off at school, where you will see tons of ignorant Thai drivers ignoring road rules. No one stopping at stop signs, multiple people not using blinkers, motorcycles passing cars in a turn, motorcycles undercutting on corners, vehicles stopped or parked in crosswalks, multiple cars parked where it is clearly stated no parking, parked on all corners where it is illegal to park and clearly marked so, parked cars on sidewalks, motorcycles riding on sidewalks, etc. This is daily here, not intermittent. So yes they are ignorant of the rules and laws of their own country.

[kwilco]

35 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

If you'd like I can take a video tomorrow showing one trip to drop my daughter off at school, where you will see tons of ignorant Thai drivers ignoring road rules. No one stopping at stop signs, multiple people not using blinkers, motorcycles passing cars in a turn, motorcycles undercutting on corners, vehicles stopped or parked in crosswalks, multiple cars parked where it is clearly stated no parking, parked on all corners where it is illegal to park and clearly marked so, parked cars on sidewalks, motorcycles riding on sidewalks, etc. This is daily here, not intermittent. So yes they are ignorant of the rules and laws of their own country.

Not even close!

It is clear from this that you have no concept whatsoever how to do anything about road safety in Thailand. It is this profound lack of  understanding and thought with a blind reliance of prejudice and assumption that contribute to the lack of change in Thailand's roads

[lordgrinz]

11 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Not even close!

It is clear from this that you have no concept whatsoever how to do anything about road safety in Thailand. It is this profound lack of  understanding and thought with a blind reliance of prejudice and assumption that contribute to the lack of change in Thailand's roads

All that's need is enforcement by police who know the rules, and punish the lawless behavior.. This stuff happens every day here, I could post videos day in and day out proving it, and video doesn't lie! Your covering your eyes and pretending it isn't happening won't fix it. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by lordgrinz

[kwilco]

Just now, lordgrinz said:

All that's need is enforcement by police who know the rules, and punish the lawless behavior.. This stuff happens every day here, I could post videos day in and day out proving it, and video doesn't lie! Your covering your eyes and pretending it is happening won't fix it. 

you haven't even approached the question of WHY? - all you have done is suggested a facile prejudged point of view based on a total lack of appreciation of the topic which you support with anecdotal evidence that you don't seem to realise is of no value.

THe plural of anecdote is not data.

I'm sorry to say to don't appear to have done the intellectual groundwork to voice anything close to an intelligent appraisal of the situation. This is why very little progress has been made over the past 3 decades - you are part of the problem, not the solution.

[lordgrinz]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

you haven't even approached the question of WHY? - all you have done is suggested a facile prejudged point of view based on a total lack of appreciation of the topic which you support with anecdotal evidence that you don't seem to realise is of no value.

THe plural of anecdote is not data.

I'm sorry to say to don't appear to have done the intellectual groundwork to voice anything close to an intelligent appraisal of the situation. This is why very little progress has been made over the past 3 decades - you are part of the problem, not the solution.

It's either they are ignorant of safety and the laws, or they are blatantly braking them, is that better? Either way they are endangering themselves and others every day, I mean why would every car blow through stop signs on my way to my daughter's school. With only two travel lanes, clearly marked as no parking, why would they be double parked up to the yellow line? I could go on, but I am sticking with their ignorance and selfishness as the cause.

[zzaa09]

Savages.

Why can't they be like us....

[kwilco]

The Title of this thread is “What can be done to make Thai roads safer?”

 

The first thing we notice is your comments are cliched and have been rolled out before for over 30 years.

The effect they have had on road safety statistics in Thailand is ZERO – therefore it is safe to conclude they have no effect.

 

The problem with successive governments is reflected in the comments on this thread – a gross lack of knowledge of the sciences of road safety.

 

Many countries have reduced their road safety records from figures similar to Thailand to single figures and are now looking at a zero option in road safety….what have they done?

 

They have given up the idea of blaming “bad drivers” racial stereotypes and single issues.

They realise that road safety is a public health problem and they need to take a holistic approach to at entire driving environment.

 

All some posters are doing is regurgitating clichés and anecdotes (“I saw this and I saw that”) but they are not analysing why, they are just jumping to baseless conclusions and assumptions with no real evidence.

History has shown us that this is patently NOT how to make Thai roads safer. It’s all been said before and to no effect. Nothing has changed for 3 decades.

We need to realise this and take a scientific approach based on evidence and logic. We can actually see how other countries have successfully approached the problem (and the ones that haven’t) – then we can address the problem.

 

Like many on this thread, the Thai authorities have fallen short of understanding the problem and in a “Dunning Kruger” fashion failed to realise their own inadequacies and instead stuck with their own erroneous prejudices and instincts that do nothing but prolong the status quo

 

[Banana7]

Enforcing the laws, rules and regulation will go a long way to make the roads safer. Plus increase the fines along with introducing minimums for violations. For example, reckless driving max. fine is about 3,000 baht. It is up to the officer investigating to decide the amount. I have heard that the fine is only 500 baht in Pattaya if a pedestrian is struck and sent unconscious to the hospital emergency department by ambulance. This amount is ridiculous. Reckless driving causing bodily should have a minimum fine of at least 10,000 baht especially hitting a pedestrian.

 

Hitting a pedestrian in a crosswalk max. fine is 4,000 baht, but there is no minimum. 

 

There are reports in Pattaya, if a video is brought to the Police station showing a vehicle driving through a red light, the police will accept the video but do nothing afterwards. One excuse is that the driver needs to charged not the vehicle owner. This loop hole needs to be changed so that the owner is charged unless the real driver comes forward and admits driving at the time and location of the violation.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Banana7

[kwilco]

to improve road safety you have to adopt the "Safe System" - and the 5 precepts.

The "5 Es" of Implementation:

To successfully implement the Safe System, the following five principles, often referred to as the "5 Es," must be implemented:

Engineering: Focus on designing safe vehicles and roads.

Education: Emphasize road safety education in schools, through testing, public information campaigns, and lifelong learning.

Enforcement: Strengthen law enforcement through trained police, an effective court system, practical legislation, and penalties.

Emergency: Ensure the presence of well-trained first responders and establish universal emergency response systems and hospital departments.

Evaluation: Conduct examinations, measurements, and calibrations of crash scenes, and compile internationally recognized statistics.

 

[Scott]

Inflammatory post reported and removed.  Continue and face a suspension.

 

[lordgrinz]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

The Title of this thread is “What can be done to make Thai roads safer?”

 

The first thing we notice is your comments are cliched and have been rolled out before for over 30 years.

The effect they have had on road safety statistics in Thailand is ZERO – therefore it is safe to conclude they have no effect.

 

The problem with successive governments is reflected in the comments on this thread – a gross lack of knowledge of the sciences of road safety.

 

Many countries have reduced their road safety records from figures similar to Thailand to single figures and are now looking at a zero option in road safety….what have they done?

 

They have given up the idea of blaming “bad drivers” racial stereotypes and single issues.

They realise that road safety is a public health problem and they need to take a holistic approach to at entire driving environment.

 

All some posters are doing is regurgitating clichés and anecdotes (“I saw this and I saw that”) but they are not analysing why, they are just jumping to baseless conclusions and assumptions with no real evidence.

History has shown us that this is patently NOT how to make Thai roads safer. It’s all been said before and to no effect. Nothing has changed for 3 decades.

We need to realise this and take a scientific approach based on evidence and logic. We can actually see how other countries have successfully approached the problem (and the ones that haven’t) – then we can address the problem.

 

Like many on this thread, the Thai authorities have fallen short of understanding the problem and in a “Dunning Kruger” fashion failed to realise their own inadequacies and instead stuck with their own erroneous prejudices and instincts that do nothing but prolong the status quo

 

"Holistic approach"? OK, we'll have to agree to disagree. Your method of putting your head in the sand and pretending the drivers have no fault for their own actions, is pathetic. The main issue in Thailand is enforcement, simple as that, the laws already exist. The drivers show their ignorance, selfishness, and disrespect of others every day, and many of us can show mountains of evidence of this behavior. If you can refute any of it, please show us why this behavior is not ignorant and selfish. I'll try not to hold my breath.

[kwilco]

On 6/15/2023 at 2:02 AM, lordgrinz said:

Your method of putting your head in the sand and pretending the drivers have no fault for their own actions, is pathetic.

 

So you simply have no idea what I'm talking about?

[Gottfrid]

The problem is much more complexed than just better education, take away drinking and driving and adhere to speed limits. All 3 will be impossible to fix, as long as the mentality of people and value of life as well as egoistic behavior are dealt with. Before that, there will be no change.

[novacova]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

 

So you simply have no idea what I'm talking about?

It’s been a year, lordgrinz has most likely moved on and has forgotten what you were talking about.

[Fab5BKK]

On 5/13/2023 at 2:56 AM, KhunLA said:

Simply driving the speed limit, and doin proper speed for conditions, would go a long way.   I do, and really can't understand how people would have an accident if they did.  Give you more than enough time & distance to stop, if someone has an oops in front of you.

 

Simply amazed at how fast people drive, when I'm doing the speed limit, as no way can they stop in time, if something, someone presents themselves in front of them

Speed is not the main factor for road accidents, far of...

Or, how could you explain that Germany has much less road fatalities per million of inhabitants than France (for example), knowing that in Germany many autobahns have no speed limits under normal conditions?

 

I used to drive my Porsche 911 a lot in Europe and specially in Germany...

 

EU Road Safety Statistics

 

[novacova]

21 minutes ago, Fab5BKK said:

Speed is not the main factor for road accidents, far of...

Or, how could you explain that Germany has much less road fatalities per million of inhabitants than France (for example), knowing that in Germany many autobahns have no speed limits under normal conditions?

 

I used to drive my Porsche 911 a lot in Europe and specially in Germany...

 

EU Road Safety Statistics

 

Speed has a lot to with traffic accidents. Road conditions, driving behavior of other drivers. Can’t compare road conditions and speeding of different countries with different road conditions and driving behavior. I can confidently drive 90+mph on an open west Texas highway that is smooth and wide and generally have confidence that most drivers are paying attention to their surroundings. Can’t do that here. 

[GammaGlobulin]

Obviously, what might have the most significant effect is driver education.

Then, also, what about Radar Camera Ticketing?

 

Also, no need to go to court, and no need to have the cops issue tickets.

The fines can be automatically deducted from drivers' bank accounts.

 

Therefore, drive slower, and get educated, might work...