Nigel Farage: ‘Brexit has failed’

[RayC]

44 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

It was up to the government of the day to define what Brexit meant and how to deal with it. 

If the government had defined Brexit as a 'Norway' type deal, I'm pretty sure that many (most?) Brexiters would have been up in arms.

 

[RayC]

8 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I gave you an answer. I thought you were confused with the meanings of words i used as my original post was straight forward. I was showing the difference between forecasts and fact.

 

I've no idea why you would conclude that I have difficulty differentiating between certain words.

 

What I (still) don't understand is what point you are trying to make.

[Jeff the Chef]

23 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

As previously discussed in this thread , the high immigration to the U.K is because people coming from Ukraine and Hong Kong and also students coming to the U.K now because there have been Covid entry restriction for the last few years .

   Nothing to do with Brexit

Okay, so Immigration had nothing to do with why we voted to leave the EEC.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Careful, you’re gonna get you self a ‘Brit Hater/Brit Basher’ badge.

 

 

Don’t panic. I dislike lazy work shy grifters of all nationalities, both sexes, all races equally.

 

I only care about character. That’s where we differ. Thankfully.

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

Not my experience as somebody who's business is now based in The Netherlands (although my home is still in England.)  My EU friends would welcome back the UK with open arms and indeed there are negotiations going on daily exploring the best way for this to happen.  Of course there will be a price to pay but that is Britain's fault for falling for all the Brexit lies.

I know and have worked with many Europeans that say the exact opposite, from their viewpoint they stated that the UK was never fully comitted to the EU project, they know that the EU will not permitted them a vote such the UK ever ask to rejoin but they have stated if a request ever does come they have  stated they will campaign through their politicians that all the previous opt-out should be made mandatory opt-in from day 1 of rejoining

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Okay, so Immigration had nothing to do with why we voted to leave the EEC.

We didn't vote Brexit to stop genuine Ukrainian refuges from fleeing to the U.K .

   Brexit was about the U.K controlling its own borders , rather than stopping immigration 

[Jeff the Chef]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

We didn't vote Brexit to stop genuine Ukrainian refuges from fleeing to the U.K .

   Brexit was about the U.K controlling its own borders , rather than stopping immigration 

That's going well in it LOL

 

[RayC]

31 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

As previously discussed in this thread , the high immigration to the U.K is because people coming from Ukraine and Hong Kong and also students coming to the U.K now because there have been Covid entry restriction for the last few years .

   Nothing to do with Brexit

"Nothing to do with Brexit" Very debatable.

 

The number of EU migrants coming to the UK has decreased. The number of migrants coming from non-EU nations for work has increased. Coincidence? Perhaps but imo unlikely.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2022#non-eu-reason-for-migration

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

But it's a little more nuanced than that.

I don't have any hard evidence to support my contention but I'd suggest that in complete contrast to Finland, pre-Brexit the UK - especially London despite its' high cost of living - was seen as a desirable location by many young EU nationals, and consequently many jobs in the hospitality sector were filled by them. Some may have been students working part-time;  others may have taken advantage of freedom of movement and spend a few months here. 

 

Since Brexit, the number of EU nationals in the UK is down. Although it won't happen, it would be interesting to see what effect reinstating freedom of movement for EU nationals would have on the Hospitality sector. I suspect that the 128k vacancies would fall dramatically.

 

(Not directed at you: I'm aware that EU nationals can get a visa to work in the UK. The data suggests that they do not want the hassle and expense in doing so).

I think you will find in general the number of low skilled workers throughout the UK and Europe is less due to largely the pandemic, if you were unlucky and your were employed in a position that didn't offer furlough benefits your choices were simply return back to your home country and try and gain employment there, if you were lucky and the position you were in did offer furlough benefits that gave many people to gain additional qualifications or skills that would help them move forward to a different industry, better paid and better benefits

post pandemic

Central European economies such as Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary are close to full employment, with wages rising, drying up a major source of cheap labor for Western Europe.

https://www.politico.eu/article/good-news-labor-shortages-coronavirus-economic-recovery/

The pandemic aggravated labour shortages in some sectors; the problem is now emerging in others

 In eastern Europe, the faster-than-predicted economic recovery, combined with growth in industrial output, has overheated the labour market and generated recruitment bottlenecks in the manufacturing sector. [2] Demand for workers has also surged in the hospitality sector, where the easing of the pandemic restrictions has seen employers struggling to find workers to fill vacancies

https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/nb/publications/blog/the-pandemic-aggravated-labour-shortages-in-some-sectors-the-problem-is-now-emerging-in-others#footnote-E7bdQ-2

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

That's going well in it LOL

 

yeahs its going well innit LOL

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Here’s three words for you:

 

‘Brexit has failed’.

Wow Farage has some pull. 
 

He’s even got you repeating the slogan. Nice one Nige.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Oh he got Brexit done. The trouble is that most of the dinner in the oven was the regurgitated Chequers Stew - designed by May-Robbins, bespoke caterers to the EU. 

Hang on a minute,

 

Johnson said he had an oven ready deal.

 

Was he lying?

[Jeff the Chef]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Hang on a minute,

 

Johnson said he had an oven ready deal.

 

Was he lying?

If his lips were moving, of course he was, same as Farage

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

Wow Farage has some pull. 
 

He’s even got you repeating the slogan. Nice one Nige.

And with good reason.

 

Farage does indeed ‘have some pull’.

 

He gained the trust of millions of people who voted for Brexit, I seem to recall comments on this forum calling for him to be knighted or elevated to the Lords.

 

So when Farage says ‘Brexit has failed’ and he did say ‘Brexit has failed’, millions of people who voted Brexit hear him.

I’m guess quite a few were thinking the same thing themselves.

 

‘Brexit has failed’ is certainly being widely and openly discussed.

[youreavinalaff]

48 minutes ago, RayC said:

I've no idea why you would conclude that I have difficulty differentiating between certain words.

 

What I (still) don't understand is what point you are trying to make.

Oh dear. You must have been sitting at the back of the class looking out of the window.

 

Let me start again, just for you.

 

One poster posted facts. Figures that have been confirmed as correct. You attempted to counter those claims and debunk the figures using forecasts. 

 

I pointed out what you were doing and questioned this,as facts are facts and cannot be disproved by forecasts. The clues are in the words.

[vinny41]

26 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And with good reason.

 

Farage does indeed ‘have some pull’.

 

He gained the trust of millions of people who voted for Brexit, I seem to recall comments on this forum calling for him to be knighted or elevated to the Lords.

 

So when Farage says ‘Brexit has failed’ and he did say ‘Brexit has failed’, millions of people who voted Brexit hear him.

I’m guess quite a few were thinking the same thing themselves.

 

‘Brexit has failed’ is certainly being widely and openly discussed.

Asked if the U.K. would have been better off remaining in the EU Farage insisted he didn’t “think that for a moment.”

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Asked if the U.K. would have been better off remaining in the EU Farage insisted he didn’t “think that for a moment.”

He could hardly say otherwise could he. 
 

Otherwise he’d have to admit his part in the damage Brexit has done and continues to do to the UK.

 

He could however help out by keeping his earlier promise to go live abroad if Brexit fails.

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

30 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

If his lips were moving, of course he was, same as Farage

So you are clamming that Farage lies every time he speaks ?

So his words about Brexit failing was a lie ?

That makes sense now

Nigel Farage was lying when he said Brexit had failed

 

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

21 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

He could however help out by keeping his earlier promise to go live abroad if Brexit fails.

Maybe he will, if Brexit fails.

 

Like many who can see reality, it's still ongoing so, as yet, hasn't failed.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Hang on a minute,

 

Johnson said he had an oven ready deal.

 

Was he lying?

He got Brexit done. Yes he was lying. But I think he knew that the only way we could actually leave with some kind of agreement out was to get that dogs dinner through the house. It had been 4 years already and everyone was pissed off.

 

That said, May was as deceptive as any of them. "Brexit means Brexit" for her means if I say that I get to be PM - maybe as long as 3 years - whoopee for me!

[josephbloggs]

43 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Maybe he will, if Brexit fails.

 

Like many who can see reality, it's still ongoing so, as yet, hasn't failed.

Ah the old "it's ongoing" line again.

So in another 5 years if things are still awful, exports have collapsed, or whatever, you can counter with, "it hasn't failed, it's still ongoing".

I asked before but noone answered. How long is the "ongoing" thing going to last before we can judge it? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

[RayC]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

I think you will find in general the number of low skilled workers throughout the UK and Europe is less due to largely the pandemic, if you were unlucky and your were employed in a position that didn't offer furlough benefits your choices were simply return back to your home country and try and gain employment there, if you were lucky and the position you were in did offer furlough benefits that gave many people to gain additional qualifications or skills that would help them move forward to a different industry, better paid and better benefits

post pandemic

Central European economies such as Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary are close to full employment, with wages rising, drying up a major source of cheap labor for Western Europe.

https://www.politico.eu/article/good-news-labor-shortages-coronavirus-economic-recovery/

The pandemic aggravated labour shortages in some sectors; the problem is now emerging in others

 In eastern Europe, the faster-than-predicted economic recovery, combined with growth in industrial output, has overheated the labour market and generated recruitment bottlenecks in the manufacturing sector. [2] Demand for workers has also surged in the hospitality sector, where the easing of the pandemic restrictions has seen employers struggling to find workers to fill vacancies

https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/nb/publications/blog/the-pandemic-aggravated-labour-shortages-in-some-sectors-the-problem-is-now-emerging-in-others#footnote-E7bdQ-2

Difficult to disagree with most of what you say (and reference).

 

The pandemic, in particular, appears to have changed many people's attitudes to work worldwide.

 

Nevertheless, your links also reference the importance of pay and working conditions. Relative to most EU nations, pay rates for fruit pickers and hospitality staff in the UK are quite high. Also employment law is more flexible in the UK. Add in the fact that  English is the second language for those who speak another tongue and it makes the UK a relatively attractive for such workers vis-a-vis other EU countries. The fly in the ointment is (the removal of) freedom of movement for EU workers

 

The number of workers arriving in the UK from the EU might not have recovered to pre-pandemic levels, but I'd suggest that there can be little doubt that the removal of freedom of movement has contributed to the decline in their numbers.

[Mac Mickmanus]

19 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Ah the old "it's ongoing" line again.

So in another 5 years if things are still awful, exports have collapsed, or whatever, you can counter with, "it hasn't failed, it's still ongoing".

I asked before but noone answered. How long is the "ongoing" thing going to last before we can judge it? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

50 years would be the right time and look back and analyse whether Brexit was a good idea or not 

[youreavinalaff]

20 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Ah the old "it's ongoing" line again.

So in another 5 years if things are still awful, exports have collapsed, or whatever, you can counter with, "it hasn't failed, it's still ongoing".

I asked before but noone answered. How long is the "ongoing" thing going to last before we can judge it? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

Please tell me that it isn't ongoing. That everything that needed to be done has been done. 

 

Show me. Just show me that there is nothing outstanding. 

[vinny41]

24 minutes ago, RayC said:

Difficult to disagree with most of what you say (and reference).

 

The pandemic, in particular, appears to have changed many people's attitudes to work worldwide.

 

Nevertheless, your links also reference the importance of pay and working conditions. Relative to most EU nations, pay rates for fruit pickers and hospitality staff in the UK are quite high. Also employment law is more flexible in the UK. Add in the fact that  English is the second language for those who speak another tongue and it makes the UK a relatively attractive for such workers vis-a-vis other EU countries. The fly in the ointment is (the removal of) freedom of movement for EU workers

 

The number of workers arriving in the UK from the EU might not have recovered to pre-pandemic levels, but I'd suggest that there can be little doubt that the removal of freedom of movement has contributed to the decline in their numbers.

I agree your post not sure that employment law being more flexible in the UK actually benefits the worker I know of people that were employed as computer operators being made redundant by a UK company who at the same time were hiring operators of computer now if you took a detailed look at the job spec they were the same job

Now that would never happen in Germany as an offical from the Department of Employment would visit the company to confirm that the redunant position was no longer required

[RayC]

36 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I agree your post not sure that employment law being more flexible in the UK actually benefits the worker I know of people that were employed as computer operators being made redundant by a UK company who at the same time were hiring operators of computer now if you took a detailed look at the job spec they were the same job

Now that would never happen in Germany as an offical from the Department of Employment would visit the company to confirm that the redunant position was no longer required

We must stop agreeing like this????

 

You're right, of course. The UK's greater flexibility in Employment law is a double-edged sword. In the example you cite it is a disadvantage (for the worker). In the case of fruit pickers/ bar staff, the greater flexibility might help to create jobs and be beneficial to both parties.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

50 years would be the right time and look back and analyse whether Brexit was a good idea or not 

Oh look, a 50 year prediction.

 

 

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Please tell me that it isn't ongoing. That everything that needed to be done has been done. 

 

Show me. Just show me that there is nothing outstanding. 

Brexit happened several years ago.. Remainers were told repeatedly "It is done, you lost, get over it". But now it isn't over so we can't judge. Of course if the economy was booming and we were all basking in the sunlit uplands and dancing with unicorns then I am sure you would be saying it was a success and not "it is ongoing, we can't judge yet".

Pretty hilarious argument really. So when can we judge it? Any time soon? How many years do you need exactly?

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

50 years would be the right time and look back and analyse whether Brexit was a good idea or not 

Brilliant. So you voted for something that will be better long after you're dead?

You really think the general public should be allowed to vote on an unbelievably complex topic that might pay dividends 50 years later??  Honestly you are a funny troll I will give you that, you have a good sense of humour - I would vote for you for funniest troll of the year in case they have that kind of award (but you would only receive the medal 50 years from now).

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

Brilliant. So you voted for something that will be better long after you're dead?

You really think the general public should be allowed to vote on an unbelievably complex topic that might pay dividends 50 years later??  Honestly you are a funny troll I will give you that, you have a good sense of humour.

You didn't understand what I said .

I didn't say that it would be better in 50 years time .