Nigel Farage: ‘Brexit has failed’

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

"It" is leaving the EU.

 

We have left.

 

And now for the consequences.

[JonnyF]

Just now, candide said:

Can't you read what I posted? According to the latest results (Q3 data released on 12 May, not forecast):

"The level of quarterly GDP in Quarter 1 2023 is now 0.5% below its pre-coronavirus (COVID-19) level"

 

I trust you read my link above.

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And now for the consequences.

Absolutely. Reaping the rewards for decades to come while the EU drowns in it's failing economy and corrupt Parliament.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/3034d39c-118a-44d3-b9bf-6482b786018f

 

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/04/14/who-is-who-in-the-european-parliament-corruption-scandal

 

 

Those are the type of consequences I like.

[RayC]

9 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

That's a forecast.

 

JohnnyF has been posting up to date figures.

 

IMF made some forecasts about UK in recent months. Look what happened to them.

Presumably, the IMF changed their forecasts because new data affected their conclusions. 

 

In a similar vein, the OBR has reviewed its' data (and assumptions) and found that there is no need to revise its' conclusions that leaving the EU has - and will continue to have - negative economic consequences for the UK.

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

Presumably, the IMF changed their forecasts because new data affected their conclusions. 

 

In a similar vein, the OBR has reviewed its' data (and assumptions) and found that there is no need to revise its' conclusions that leaving the EU has - and will continue to have - negative economic consequences for the UK.

Predictions.

 

We all know how the doomsday predictions during Project Fear turned out. Let's not take the OBR too seriously, their guesses might end up as inaccurate as The Bank of England's...

[RayC]

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

You're posting forecasts. I am posting results. 

You seem to be putting great emphasis on the revised IMF forecasts.

 

Have a closer look at the OBR datasets. You will find a lot of results as well as forecasts.

[sammieuk1]

Lets chuck this in for Brexiters to chew on (though why any Expat would support it is still a mystery to me)

 

immigration take back control a key battle cry pre/post vote watch out for the figures today as a gauge to find out how successful Brexit has been thus far  ???? 

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

You seem to be putting great emphasis on the revised IMF forecasts.

 

Have a closer look at the OBR datasets. You will find a lot of results as well as forecasts.

I already posted the actual results from The Financial Times.

 

I have little faith in the OBR. They don't even have faith in themselves.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11452293/OBR-chief-admits-forecasts-certain-wrong-Tories-seethe-tax-rises.html

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Maybe this is what Farage had in mind:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/25/uk-net-migration-record-high-despite-tory-promises-cut-arrivals

[JonnyF]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Maybe this is what Farage had in mind:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/25/uk-net-migration-record-high-despite-tory-promises-cut-arrivals

That is a failing of the Conservative government.

 

Not of Brexit.

[youreavinalaff]

11 minutes ago, RayC said:

Presumably, the IMF changed their forecasts because new data affected their conclusions. 

 

In a similar vein, the OBR has reviewed its' data (and assumptions) and found that there is no need to revise its' conclusions that leaving the EU has - and will continue to have - negative economic consequences for the UK.

However, it is a forecast. Including, by your own admittance, "assumptions". Oh dear.

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

Lets chuck this in for Brexiters to chew on (though why any Expat would support it is still a mystery to me)

 

immigration take back control a key battle cry pre/post vote watch out for the figures today as a gauge to find out how successful Brexit has been thus far  ???? 

It seems quite a few things are a mystery to you. Allow me to explain the situation.

 

Brexit gave the government the powers to control immigration.

 

The government have done a poor job of utilizing those powers (so far), but the powers remain.

 

The fault is with the government, not with Brexit.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

That is a failing of the Conservative government.

 

Not of Brexit.

But but but Brexit handed full control over the UK’s borders back to the UK Government.

 

And Sunak was definitely a full on Brexiteer.

 

Maybe somebody told a porky and Brexit would not reduce immigration.

[RayC]

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Absolutely. Reaping the rewards for decades to come while the EU drowns in it's failing economy and corrupt Parliament.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/3034d39c-118a-44d3-b9bf-6482b786018f

 

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/04/14/who-is-who-in-the-european-parliament-corruption-scandal

 

 

Those are the type of consequences I like.

It's good news that IMF currently have more confidence in the UK than they had previously. However, I'll hold off putting the bunting up; imo a bit premature to suggest that a projected 0.4% annual growth rate is a harbinger of decades of future prosperity.

 

This is probably, at least, partly due to us now having a serious politician in charge rather than an incompetent ideologue (someone you supported if I remember correctly?).

 

Interesting that you take pleasure in the problems currently faced by our neighbours. 

 

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It seems quite a few things are a mystery to you. Allow me to explain the situation.

 

Brexit gave the government the powers to control immigration.

 

The government have done a poor job of utilizing those powers (so far), but the powers remain.

 

The fault is with the government, not with Brexit.

And the root cause of the excessive immigration figures?......Work permits issued by the government, desperately trying to cover up labour shortages caused by.........?

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

And the root cause of the excessive immigration figures?......Work permits issued by the government, desperately trying to cover up labour shortages caused by.........?

Lazy workshy Brits on benefits.

 

We'll get to that.

[RayC]

14 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I already posted the actual results from The Financial Times.

Yes, you have 

 

14 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

I have little faith in the OBR. They don't even have faith in themselves.

Did you have any faith in the IMF before their revised figures were published?

 

14 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11452293/OBR-chief-admits-forecasts-certain-wrong-Tories-seethe-tax-rises.html

 

Did you read the article or merely the headline?

[sammieuk1]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

It seems quite a few things are a mystery to you. Allow me to explain the situation.

 

Brexit gave the government the powers to control immigration.

 

The government have done a poor job of utilizing those powers (so far), but the powers remain.

 

The fault is with the government, not with Brexit.

Great job you have cleared that up for me its the governments fault that has overseen Brexit for not being Brexit enough or to much anyway you sorted it. 

 

Next what happened to the pound since the results day cos mine is still worth north of 20% less but I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation I'm still missing but I can't think what ???? 

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

It's good news that IMF currently have more confidence in the UK than they had previously. However, I'll hold off putting the bunting up; imo a bit premature to suggest that a projected 0.4% annual growth rate is a harbinger of decades of future prosperity.

Time will tell. Early indications are very promising.

 

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

This is probably, at least, partly due to us now having a serious politician in charge rather than an incompetent ideologue (someone you supported if I remember correctly?).

An interesting opinion. Any evidence to back that up?

 

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Interesting that you take pleasure in the problems currently faced by our neighbours. 

 

Not really taking pleasure. I have no issue with the citizens of EU countries in fact I wish them well, it's the EU that I dislike. Given the way the EU politicians treated us following the decision to leave, their failures don't keep me awake at night. That's the problem with treating neighbours so badly, some of them have long memories they might not end up liking you very much. 

[RayC]

21 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

That is a failing of the Conservative government.

 

Not of Brexit.

It has happened under a Conservative government which is implementing Brexit.

 

Personally, I don't see the rise in immigration as a failing. However, I also don't see any particular benefit in swapping EU nationals for Asian nationals.

 

(And before anyone goes down that particular rabbit hole: I am not anti-Asian or racist. Just questioning what expertise - benefital to the UK economy - can be found in Asia that can't be found within the EU?)

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

Great job you have cleared that up for me its the governments fault that has overseen Brexit for not being Brexit enough or to much anyway you sorted it. 

You're welcome. Always happy to help. 

 

4 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

 

Next what happened to the pound since the results day cos mine is still worth north of 20% less but I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation I'm still missing but I can't think what ???? 

Yes, my Thai salary and the amount I send back to the UK every month has increased by the same 20%. I wouldn't be so crass as to put a sterling amount on it but over 7 years it's been significant. The value of my UK rental properties have increased by around 40% since 2016 as well. So it's not all bad.

[nauseus]

28 minutes ago, RayC said:

Once again, one of the problems of Brexit is highlighted: There is no clear vision of what it is.

 

Farage's vision of Brexit is different from Sunak's which is different from Gove's which is different to .... How can it possibly succeed if you don't know what "it" is? 

There is no clear vision or advance warning of what leaving is or what it might be because there is no detail in Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (or Article 218 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union). From Article 50, it all sounds so simple, until a member tries to quit.

 

The only thing clear is that all procedures concerning leaving are set and dominated by the EU, that is plainly obvious now. The leaving state has little influence, as it remains within the EU until a WA is reached. Because the EU has evolved into a cross-national political and economic web, then no deal at all would be disastrous, especially for peoples. But it's not a reasonable way to end a partnership and those words "good faith" were rarely applied.

 

But hey! Who'd have thought it?!! 

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

It has happened under a Conservative government which is implementing Brexit.

 

Personally, I don't see the rise in immigration as a failing. However, I also don't see any particular benefit in swapping EU nationals for Asian nationals.

 

(And before anyone goes down that particular rabbit hole: I am not anti-Asian or racist. Just questioning what expertise - benefital to the UK economy - can be found in Asia that can't be found within the EU?)

Controlled immigration is fine. Open borders? Not so much.

 

That is certainly a rabbit hole in the current toxic environment. Some might say that Asians are well known to have a very high work ethic and also generally law abiding but I wouldn't be so foolish as to offer an opinion on that. 

[candide]

48 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I trust you read my link above.

Your link uses outdated data. The ONS report uses the latest data as it has been released one month later.

[RayC]

34 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

However, it is a forecast. Including, by your own admittance, "assumptions". Oh dear.

Not for the first time, I find myself asking, what is your point?

[Mavideol]

On 5/17/2023 at 5:33 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

The people vigorously defending Brexit yesterday are a no show in this thread.

you mean you...  none would have the buuuuulls  555

[Mavideol]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:50 AM, James105 said:

What a silly statement.   When did I suggest that Farage should be the only person that advises the government and not draw from all sources of expertise?   The people do not elect experts to govern, they elect representatives.   It is down to those representatives to choose experts to advise them.   What the UK government definitely lacked was a "vision" for how the UK should look 5/10/20/50 years after Brexit.    Could Farage have provided that vision?  Maybe/maybe not.   We will never know.  

everybody was counting on BJ to do so, he was a visionary  555

Edited May 25, 2023 by Mavideol

[RayC]

28 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Time will tell. Early indications are very promising.

The early indications being a more positive upgrade from the IMF, which suggests UK growth not significantly higher than other nations? Imo not a great deal to hang one's hat on

 

28 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

An interesting opinion. Any evidence to back that up?

Well, the immediate market reaction to Truss' policy announcements and the subsequent rebound in market sentiment upon her removal for a start. The improvement in diplomatic relations between the UK and EU for another. That's off the top of my head.

 

28 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Not really taking pleasure. I have no issue with the citizens of EU countries in fact I wish them well, it's the EU that I dislike. Given the way the EU politicians treated us following the decision to leave, their failures don't keep me awake at night. That's the problem with treating neighbours so badly, some of them have long memories they might not end up liking you very much. 

Obviously our opinions differ. 

[vinny41]

29 minutes ago, RayC said:

It has happened under a Conservative government which is implementing Brexit.

 

Personally, I don't see the rise in immigration as a failing. However, I also don't see any particular benefit in swapping EU nationals for Asian nationals.

 

(And before anyone goes down that particular rabbit hole: I am not anti-Asian or racist. Just questioning what expertise - benefital to the UK economy - can be found in Asia that can't be found within the EU?)

It seems in the EU there is a shortage of expertise of labour in certain fields Finland is lacking in labor, especially in the fields of agriculture, health care

Finland identified Brazil, India, Vietnam and Turkey as four special target countries to attract immigrants.

https://scandasia.com/finland-to-attract-more-migrant-workers-from-vietnam/

[RayC]

29 minutes ago, nauseus said:

There is no clear vision or advance warning of what leaving is or what it might be because there is no detail in Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (or Article 218 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union). From Article 50, it all sounds so simple, until a member tries to quit.

The Articles are simply statements of the process and procedures. I don't see why or how they could be anything more?

 

29 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

The only thing clear is that all procedures concerning leaving are set and dominated by the EU, that is plainly obvious now. The leaving state has little influence, as it remains within the EU until a WA is reached.

Agreed. If you are implying that the EU would be the dominant partner in any negotiation then, again, agreed. If you are suggesting something else, I can't see what it is.

 

29 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Because the EU has evolved into a cross-national political and economic web, then no deal at all would be disastrous, especially for peoples.

Once again. Agreed although some Brexiters such as Nigel Farage wouldn't.

 

29 minutes ago, nauseus said:

But it's not a reasonable way to end a partnership and those words "good faith" were rarely applied.

 

But hey! Who'd have thought it?!! 

(I think?) we agree that the EU was the dominant partner. Imo it also pretty quickly became clear that they had the better negotiators (especially when it came to lead negotiators). Given this, it can't be any surprise that the final agreement would have largely been on the EU's terms.

 

It's not clear to me what you are suggesting could, and should have, happened? 

 

Your comment also doesn't address my point about the lack of agreement about what Brexit meant. If Brexiters couldn't agree this amongst themselves, how could they expect an outcome on which they expect a favourable outcome?